Rdearman 2016-24 You Can't Have Your Kate and Edith Too.

[rdearman]

I think I need to do something more with my language studies. But I don't really know what to do. It's actually quite difficult to do anything during this whole lockdown pandemic since I actually have other people in the house and I can't really do much.

Will you be able and willing to that smallwhite excel spreadsheet thing if I give you a list of sentences to do it with?

Sure. That would be good. Which language?

[smallwhite]

I think I need to do something more with my language studies. But I don't really know what to do. It's actually quite difficult to do anything during this whole lockdown pandemic since I actually have other people in the house and I can't really do much.

Will you be able and willing to that smallwhite excel spreadsheet thing if I give you a list of sentences to do it with?

Sure. That would be good. Which language?

I was thinking it'd help your French (which I've seen), but if your Italian is similar then whichever you pick.

[rdearman]

I think I need to do something more with my language studies. But I don't really know what to do. It's actually quite difficult to do anything during this whole lockdown pandemic since I actually have other people in the house and I can't really do much.

Will you be able and willing to that smallwhite excel spreadsheet thing if I give you a list of sentences to do it with?

Sure. That would be good. Which language?

I was thinking it'd help your French (which I've seen), but if your Italian is similar then whichever you pick.

Ok. Let's do French. Tell me the plan.

[smallwhite]

Simple and regular sentences, basic grammar, using the easiest vocabulary. English->French with the error-checking spreadsheet.

When I learned Spanish (after some French), I learned vocabulary with the spreadsheet, then conjugation with the spreadsheet, then sentences with the spreadsheet. And I became fluent very soon, not forgoing accuracy. Very fluent texting on Skype (which felt just the same as doing the spreadsheet), and comfortable talking in Spain.

With speaking, there's always a trade-off between fluency/speed and accuracy. And uncertainty about accuracy is always a concern when autodidacts practise output - a deterrent, even. The spreadsheet error-checking function solves this. While the simplicity and regularity of sentences chosen, together with repetition, builds speed. All that in a safe and stress-free environment.

And I find that one major advantage of this method is that with a tangible database of sentences that you've repeated many times, you will have a fairly concrete idea of what sentence structures you can handle fluently and accurately. Then when you text or speak in real-life, you won't go starting sentences with structures you haven't learnt just because that's how you normally say it in English, and then tripping up. You can expand your database and your knowledge gradually, but until then, you stick to B1 structures when you're B1 and don't splurt out C2 stuff and mess up in front of a client.

Old sentences I rediscovered and conjugated ES->ES last night (not translated EN->ES):
- to receive the results
- to arrive in the morning
- to return soon
- to learn Spanish
- to talk with the doctor

That is, (optional Subject +) Verb with Object and/or Adverb. My favourite structure to drill because useful and versatile.

I usually use Tatoeba or Schaum sentences. Do you happen to already have some?

[rdearman]

I don't have any although I could get some from various electronic books I have.

[smallwhite]

I don't have any although I could get some from various electronic books I have.

I'll make you a batch. Then we'll see how you go with them (your accuracy, whether effective, whether boring), then I'll make the next batch, rinse and repeat.

[smallwhite]

Hi. Here is Batch 1 with 50 sentence pairs plus 3 additional sentence pairs at the beginning so you can't see the answers when you manipulate the data Please try to tell me your results out of 50 of your very first try. Better still, give me your answers. The data is comma-separated, 3 fields.

- no ending fullstops
- "you" is singular informal in this batch
- "I" is male, it's you RD
- when in doubt, use simple textbooky vocabulary such as "home" rather than "abode" (in French) and translate literally
- I picked sentences that are hopefully un-confusing to translate. Normally my sentences have better variety...
- this is a fluency drill, with a small grammar component, and ideally zero vocabulary component
- try not to read the English sentence but just glance at it, such that you're not translating but expressing ideas from an English cue
- so don't memorise the answer

Please tell me your thoughts but maybe after a few rounds.

Code: Select all

1,Exemple FR 1,Example EN 1
2,Exemple FR 2,Example EN 2
3,Exemple FR 3,Example EN 3
4,Je te veux,I want you
123,Je ne peux pas le faire,I can't do it
126,Je ne peux pas,I can not
151,Je peux le faire,I can do it
162,Je veux être toi,I want to be you
464,Je ne sais pas,I don't know
528,Je veux te voir,I want to see you
589,Je ne veux pas parler,I don't want to talk
613,Je suis bon,I am good
734,Je suis dans la maison,I am in the house
811,Je suis à la maison,I am at home
875,Je suis plus grand,I am taller
892,Je suis après lui,I am after him
964,Je le fais tout le temps,I do it all the time
1002,Je suis trop petit,I am too short
1023,Je veux parler,I want to talk
1111,Je suis comme ma mère,I am like my mother
1211,Je ne suis pas ta mère,I am not your mother
1300,Je ne le connais pas,I don't know him
1343,Je ne travaille pas pour toi,I don't work for you
1368,Je suis grand,I am tall
1438,Je suis un homme,I am a man
1462,Je travaille ici,I work here
1522,Je ne travaille pas ici,I don't work here
1753,Je ne travaille pas,I do not work
1899,Je suis nouveau ici,I am new here
2035,Je veux des enfants,I want children
2074,Je suis un garçon,I am a boy
2193,Je suis perdu,I am lost
2209,Je suis un chat,I am a cat
2219,Je suis plus beau que toi,I am more beautiful than you
2375,Je n'aime pas les enfants,I don't like kids
2590,Je te crois,I believe you
2677,Je ne veux pas travailler,I don't want to work
2724,Je suis ton frère,I am your brother
2794,Je ne le vois pas,I don't see him
3111,Je vois un livre,I see a book
3184,Je ne comprends pas,I don't understand
3211,Je ne parle pas français,I don't speak French
3382,Je ne vois pas comment,I don't see how
3505,J'ai déjà mangé,I have already eaten
3518,Je mange ici,I eat here
3674,Je ne suis pas trop fatigué,I am not too tired
3702,Je suis encore jeune,I am still young
3806,Je parle français,I speak French
4141,Je les vois,I see them
4325,Je suis déjà prêt,I am already ready
4489,Je suis heureux,I am happy
4693,Je suis français,I am French
4829,Je ne suis pas occupé,I am not busy


[rdearman]

Hi Here is Batch 1

OK I had a go at this and did very badly! Only 7 out of 50 correct answers (although I couldn't do accent marks on the keyboard I was using). Still even forgiving that it was only about 10% of them.

I hid the French and just tried to write it as I would say it. This really highlighted for me the fact that although I could "say" the answer, I couldn't type the answer most of the time.

===

On another note: I'm only 6 days away from doing a year of Italian clozemaster. I'll probably stop because I'm tired of being flogged the "Pro" version and honestly it is way too much money for a monthly subscription for something I can do in Anki for free (although I did donate some money to the anki developer).

[smallwhite]

Hi Here is Batch 1

OK I had a go at this and did very badly! Only 7 out of 50 correct answers (although I couldn't do accent marks on the keyboard I was using). Still even forgiving that it was only about 10% of them.

I hid the French and just tried to write it as I would say it. This really highlighted for me the fact that although I could "say" the answer, I couldn't type the answer most of the time.

I don't want to type accents so in my spreadsheet I have an additional FR field with accents removed. I'll include it next time.

With accents out of the way, you got 10 correct per Excel, 14 wrong basically only for vocabulary or spelling or interferenza, 2 "wrong" but are actually fine, so only 24 incorrect for grammar or expression, often just minor. I looked at these 24, and I suggest practising conjugation with 3-part sentences with the spreadsheet:
- I drink today
- I worry tomorrow
- You can shut-up

Do you want to do that? I can easily make you hundreds of these.

My father always recommends conjugation drills. His English was so poor in primary school that his mother got him a private tutor. The tutor made him drill "I came, she has looked, we are conquering", etc. Father said conjugation becoming automatic meant he then only had to think about the rest of the sentence. He went on to get very good grades in English and to really impress at work. I also found conjugation drills useful for French, and easy to do.

However! You probably actually pronounce the verbs fine and just spelt funny And I suspect your conjugation doesn't cause much communication problem in person. So it's okay to leave it, too. In that case, we can just move on to other sentences. I think I have an idea what type of sentences would suit you. Except your spelling might cause you frustration using the spreadsheet (I know because I used to spell French funny, too) (I know it's actually French that's spelling itself funny), so conjugation drills would probably be more pleasant.

So what do you prefer? Conjugation, normal sentences, or No more thanks? "Choose Your Own Adventure".

[rdearman]

So what do you prefer? Conjugation, normal sentences, or No more thanks? "Choose Your Own Adventure".

How about a mixture of conjunction and normal? But, what is the process if I get them wrong? How do you correct yourself when you do this exercise? Can you talk me through your process?