smallwhite wrote:rdearman wrote:I think broad rules about grammar need to be known in order to get sentence structure correct, but I'm perfectly happy to brutalise someone else's language.
I think you said you want to be C1 in French. One can't reach C1 withpoorcarefree grammar. How do you handle this gap?
I gave up on being C1. (It is the path of least resistance, the way of the lazy fist.
)A serious answer however. If I use my native English as an example. I didn't actually know the rule about using "a" vs using "an" until I was well into my 30's. Around about the same time I learned the rules about "it's" and "its", and I still use split infinitives on occasion. This hasn't held me back in my life, I've managed to pass the majority of my life without anyone telling me that my English isn't at an acceptable level. So if I can be an native speaker with poor grammar why not a C1 French speaker. When I say that I think the broad rules of grammar should be known, I mean things like tense agreement, subject verb agreement, irregular verbs, etc. but you don't need to know every grammar rule, nor memorise every grammar rule in a language. Obviously givers of language exams are prescriptive grammarians.
The idea of descriptive grammar and prescriptive grammar is where a descriptive grammarian would say a sentence is “grammatical” if a native speaker of the language would produce that sentence in speaking. A prescriptive grammarian, on the other hand, would say something is grammatical only if the surface form conforms to a set of rules the grammarian believes should be followed in order for a certain grammar style is achieved.
I have a laissez-faire approach to grammar. If it leaves me alone, I'll leave it alone. I figure (probably incorrectly) if I learn to structure my sentences like natives do then I will be ok. I expect there are a HUGE number of English speakers who use the word "ain't", but ain't, ain't a word. If you use the word in an English examination, you'll probably be marked down, but if you talk to just about any English speaker in the world you'll be fine.
So while I want my level to be CX, and I probably would need to test out to determine my level, I ain't really got any need for it. I can live my life free in the knowledge that I ain't ever going to need a CX certification in French.
As far as addressing the gap. What I've been doing is getting feedback from speakers during my iTalki lessons and trying to incorporate what they tell me. I try to copy sentence structure from what I've read, or watched and on occasion I have read a grammar book. I attempt to remember the broad rules which would really mark me out as Tarzan, but I'm not too concerned with the detail of it all.
Also another problem is that grammar has to be internalised. If I stand for 10 minutes trying to construct the perfect grammatically correct sentence then I'm going to be ignored at best. I think I need to see and hear lots of correct sentences and practice reproduction of the same.
