The Frenchification of Mademoiselle R

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Re: The Frenchification of Mademoiselle R

Postby emk » Sun Jan 03, 2016 3:20 pm

It's great to have another forum member with a French partner and in-laws. :-)

When reading through your message, I thought of a couple of small, sanity-tips I wish I knew back when I started. I'll pass these along just in case they might be useful for you. Please feel free to take them with a grain of salt, of course—this isn't a "you must do this post", but rather a "if a certain thing is driving you crazy, you're not alone!" post.

Rebecca wrote:In fact, I have started loading vocabulary into Anki already from my text books. Although time consuming, I can see that if I am consistent in reviewing material this could be an incredible tool for my language learning.

Anki can be both amazingly useful and actually quite a lot of fun. But if you have perfectionist tendencies, it can also turn into a torture machine. There are two good tips to minimize the risk of Anki turning sour:

  1. If a card pops up and you groan, delete it ruthlessly. If all your cards make you groan and you end up deleting your entire deck, then feel free to ask the forum for alternative ways to use Anki. :-)
  2. For the first month, try to limit yourself to no more than 10 new cards a day. Everybody is tempted to bump it up to 30 or 40 after a few days, but what happens is that eventually the reviews start piling up, and you find yourself reviewing 5× or even 10x that number of cards every day. Learning 10 new cards and reviewing 50 old ones is fine. Learning 40 new cards and reviewing 200 old ones can be terrifying. Anki does not automatically adjust to changing energy levels, so it's better to start slowly and adjust things after a month or so.
If I hit a month where I just can't deal with my review load, I immediately cut my new cards back to zero per day, and I get a bit more ruthless about deleting cards that make me groan. Of course, you don't need to follow my advice if it doesn't seem helpful! But it's good to aware that Anki has some bad sides, and that people here on the forum have a vast wealth of expertise in how to keep Anki fun and productive.

Rebecca wrote:As for speaking practice with my partner, unfortunately my speaking ability is so limited at present that I can barely put two words together, let alone have a rudimentary conversation. Hopefully that will change very soon, and I intend to make speaking a priority as soon as possible. We have been reading out loud together from the first couple of Assimil dialogues, as well as Beginner's French Reader, by Anne Topping, and a couple of FrenchPod101 podcast transcripts, though. I recognise that I have hit the language learner's equivalent of the jackpot in terms of having a native speaker at my beck and call to practice with, and I intend to make the most of it!

Some people like speaking early, and some like waiting until they understand more. Both groups get good results, so it's probably safe to go with whatever feels right for you. :-)

I do speak French with my wife, but it wasn't easy to make the transition. Until I reached A2/B1, we pretty much drove each other crazy whenever we tried to speak French. And when I finally started speaking in French full-time, we ran into another problem: It seems as if when you meet a person, there's a little switch in your brain that says, "This person speaks language X." This switch gets set very quickly, and it can be surprisingly hard to change. For several months, we had to make a constant effort to remain in French. But eventually, we somehow managed to get our "switches" stuck in the opposite direction, and now speaking English to each other actually requires a conscious effort. Brains are weird.

I think your idea of reading Assimil dialogs together is absolutely wonderful. But if you hit any snags talking to your fiancé in French, it's not the end of the world—not all couples find it easy to switch languages early on (or even at very high levels). However, that doesn't mean that there aren't huge benefits to having a native speaker as a partner. For example, they won't complain about the amount of time you spend studying the language, and they won't complain if you hog the TV for watching French series and movies!
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Re: The Frenchification of Mademoiselle R

Postby tomgosse » Sun Jan 03, 2016 3:38 pm

Rebecca wrote:I also hope to develop a consistent routine and to try several methods and strategies to determine what works best for me. I intend to work fairly intensively over the course of the year, but as I have an illness which includes Chronic Fatigue, it can makes life rather difficult and unpredicatable. My energy, stamina and ability to concentrate varies considerably from week to week, month to month, so I cannot make a definite statement about how many hours of study I can put in each day. I will just have to play it by ear and do whatever I can manage.

Here is a link to a thread about language learning and depression. A number of us also have chronic illnesses, and that was discussed there. I have Chronic Kidney Disease, and that results in a lot of fatigue. The only advice I can give you is, when you are tired, rest!

For most of us, myself included, learning a language is for personal enrichment and enjoyment. It's a hobby, and no hobby is worth damaging your health for. Also, if you get too tired, learning becomes a tiresome chore and that will lead to depression and loss of interest.
There are a lot of supportive people here. Don't be afraid to ask for help if your studies seem to overwhelm you.

All the best,
Tom
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Re: The Frenchification of Mademoiselle R

Postby rdearman » Sun Jan 03, 2016 4:32 pm

emk wrote: If all your cards make you groan and you end up deleting your entire deck, then feel free to ask the forum for alternative ways to use Anki. :-)

I'd advise you not to delete your entire deck, but rather to export it to a file and stop using it. Personally I've gone back a couple of months later and reloaded some decks and restarted them. So although you might groan with them, you're groan more if you have to recreate them from scratch.
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Re: The Frenchification of Mademoiselle R

Postby iguanamon » Sun Jan 03, 2016 5:55 pm

Welcome to the forum, Rebecca. You have picked the right place for good advice and motivation in language learning. I would only add that not using Anki or any other SRS system is also a viable alternative. Not that I advocate not using it, I just want you to know that it isn't an absolutely necessary component to learning a language. I've never used it.

Consistency is indeed one of the keys to learning a language but persistence will keep you in the game until you can be consistent. Fun ways to learn include songs and short videos on youtube. While this isn't a main part of learning, it can help to keep you in "French mode" when you can't face a textbook, Assimil lesson or Anki. Good luck!
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Re: The Frenchification of Mademoiselle R

Postby Rebecca » Mon Jan 04, 2016 3:17 pm

emk wrote: Anki can be both amazingly useful and actually quite a lot of fun. But if you have perfectionist tendencies, it can also turn into a torture machine.


Yup, that could describe me! I can already see that if I go overboard on adding cards to Anki, it will turn into a beast very quickly. I will keep your tips in mind and try to restrain myself. It is very tempting to always add a few more, though, isn't it? ;) I know it's early days, but I am rather enjoying the process so far. Ask me again in another couple of months and it may be a different story. :lol:

emk wrote: It seems as if when you meet a person, there's a little switch in your brain that says, "This person speaks language X." This switch gets set very quickly, and it can be surprisingly hard to change.


I have heard before of the difficulties couples often have when switching languages. It will certainly be interesting to see how we cope with this when the time comes.

tomgosse wrote:Here is a link to a thread about language learning and depression. A number of us also have chronic illnesses, and that was discussed there. I have Chronic Kidney Disease, and that results in a lot of fatigue. The only advice I can give you is, when you are tired, rest!


That's a very interesting and humbling thread, thank you! It is always surprising just how many people are dealing with all kinds of difficulties in life. Sometimes it can be easy to fall into the trap of thinking that everybody else around me is fine and dandy and feeling a little sorry for myself, but dig beneath the exterior and you find everyone has their own (often hidden) battles. It is good to be reminded that people can overcome all sorts of things to achieve their goals.

I am very careful these days about not overdoing things. Far too many times in the past, I have become complacent when I am feeling well, and end up paying the price later. As someone who suffers from fatigue yourself, you may well be familiar with that!

tomgosse wrote:There are a lot of supportive people here. Don't be afraid to ask for help if your studies seem to overwhelm you.


I will indeed, thank you for your kind words!

rdearman wrote:I'd advise you not to delete your entire deck, but rather to export it to a file and stop using it. Personally I've gone back a couple of months later and reloaded some decks and restarted them. So although you might groan with them, you're groan more if you have to recreate them from scratch.


Ha! I will keep that in mind! Yes, I can see how disheartening that would be if you delete a whole deck in the midst of a hissy fit only to regret it later. :lol:

iguanamon wrote:Welcome to the forum, Rebecca. You have picked the right place for good advice and motivation in language learning. I would only add that not using Anki or any other SRS system is also a viable alternative. Not that I advocate not using it, I just want you to know that it isn't an absolutely necessary component to learning a language. I've never used it.


Thank you for your welcome, Iguanamon! It's nice to hear that if I don't get on with Anki, there are alternatives. It does sometimes feel like everyone on this forum uses it. At the moment I am really enjoying it, but I will reassess its usefulness at a later date.


In terms of today's studying, as well as continuing Assimil and various podcasts, I have made a start on the first unit of FSI French Phonology to try and get to grips with good pronunciation right from the start. Seems very good so far, despite the old audio. I think I should be able to work through this in about a week, if I do one unit per day. I also have the Pronounce It Perfectly In French book and audio by Christopher Kendris, which is lurking somewhere on my massive Shelf of Shame*. I'm not sure if it would be worth completing this as well as the FSI, however. Thoughts, anyone?

* Refers to my shamefully huge collection of French learning materials, built up over the years as a displacement activity when I should have been studying instead of buying more French books! :oops:
Last edited by Rebecca on Mon Jan 04, 2016 4:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Frenchification of Mademoiselle R

Postby tomgosse » Mon Jan 04, 2016 3:31 pm

Rebecca wrote:In terms of today's studying, as well as continuing Assimil and various podcasts, I have made a start on the first unit of FSI French Phonology to try and get to grips with good pronunciation right from the start. Seems very good so far, despite the old audio. I think I should be able to work through this in about a week, if I do one unit per day. I also have the Pronounce It Perfectly In French book and audio by Christopher Kendris, which is lurking somewhere on my massive Shelf of Shame*. I'm not sure if it would be worth completing this as well as the FSI, however. Thoughts, anyone?

* Refers to my shamefully huge collection of French learning materials, built up over the years as a displacement activity when I should have been studying instead of buying more French books!

It's the Shelf of Opportunity! You can never have too many French books! :lol:
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Re: The Frenchification of Mademoiselle R

Postby Rebecca » Mon Jan 04, 2016 4:06 pm

tomgosse wrote:
Rebecca wrote:In terms of today's studying, as well as continuing Assimil and various podcasts, I have made a start on the first unit of FSI French Phonology to try and get to grips with good pronunciation right from the start. Seems very good so far, despite the old audio. I think I should be able to work through this in about a week, if I do one unit per day. I also have the Pronounce It Perfectly In French book and audio by Christopher Kendris, which is lurking somewhere on my massive Shelf of Shame*. I'm not sure if it would be worth completing this as well as the FSI, however. Thoughts, anyone?

* Refers to my shamefully huge collection of French learning materials, built up over the years as a displacement activity when I should have been studying instead of buying more French books!

It's the Shelf of Opportunity! You can never have too many French books! :lol:


I like your way of thinking! :lol:
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Re: The Frenchification of Mademoiselle R

Postby VivianJ5 » Mon Jan 04, 2016 7:26 pm

So happy to have another member with a French partner; welcome! I haven't posted much in the past few months - life intervened - but I'm looking forward to getting back into language learning this year, on this new forum...

I met my husband about 30 years ago - doesn't seem like it's been that long :D - and I did know some French when we met, but I was barely at an advanced beginner/low intermediate level, so interacting with my in-laws was a challenge, especially when everyone was talking at once. Once the wedding date was set, I really focused on improving, and my husband and mother-in-law were huge helps. I love to read, so found easy French novels, and asked a ton of questions on how to pronounce and define unfamiliar words. And one piece of advice: decide what level of correction you're comfortable with. My brother-in-law would correct every single mistake I made, which ended up being more discouraging than anything else. My MIL, on the other hand, would let me finish my thought, then chose one thing to focus on, whether it was an error in noun gender (LE and LA still are problems for me!), or the correct verb tense to use, or a pronunciation mistake. I learned so much from her, because she was patient and let me talk, and figure things out as I went, and answered any question I had.

Another thing I found helpful: soap operas and kids' shows in French! Simpler vocabulary, lots of repetition, can listen to over and over if you have DVDs, or can find videos online. And of course, EMK has many, many resources on his log.

I've improved immensely over the years, and although I'll never be completely fluent, I'm very happy with my relatively advanced level. I make sure to read novels and French news, and watch French TV series and films regularly, to keep up. My kids went to French schools, so we all go back and forth in English and French, which helps keep me on my toes!

Looking forward to seeing your progress; good luck!
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Re: The Frenchification of Mademoiselle R

Postby Rebecca » Tue Jan 05, 2016 2:08 pm

Hi Vivian! Thanks for sharing your experiences with learning French! It's great to hear from people and see how they progressed from not being able to say much to achieving a high level of competency, particularly within the context of joining a French family. It gives me hope that I, too, will one day have some of your success. :)

VivianJ5 wrote:And one piece of advice: decide what level of correction you're comfortable with. My brother-in-law would correct every single mistake I made, which ended up being more discouraging than anything else. My MIL, on the other hand, would let me finish my thought, then chose one thing to focus on, whether it was an error in noun gender (LE and LA still are problems for me!), or the correct verb tense to use, or a pronunciation mistake. I learned so much from her, because she was patient and let me talk, and figure things out as I went, and answered any question I had.


It will be interesting to see whether my in-laws are the super critical type, or more laid back when I start attempting to converse with them. :lol:

It sounds like you are now at a level where you can more or less stay in maintenance mode with your language learning? I'm not sure if you intend to start your own log here, or even if it is necessary, given your ability in French, but if you do ever begin one, I would love to subscribe and follow along!

Thanks again for popping in and introducing yourself and giving me some tips! :)
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Re: The Frenchification of Mademoiselle R

Postby VivianJ5 » Tue Jan 05, 2016 8:04 pm

You're very welcome, Rebecca. I wish the internet had been around when I was learning...boy, would that have been useful :D !

As you guessed, my French is in maintenance mode. I'm sure there is still much I could improve, especially in vocabulary and grammar points, but I can follow almost any French conversation or film/radio show, and I can participate in conversations without too much difficulty. I'm okay with that, especially since I really would love to get going on learning Spanish (I studied one year in university eons ago!), or get back to learning Italian (studied for about six years, also eons ago, and never got good enough to really speak...can read some, though). Plus we lived in the Netherlands for a total of eight years, and I never DID learn Dutch, which I feel very guilty about, since we love the country, and I was always frustrated...

So many languages, so little time! Please don't hesitate to ask questions, if you need advice or help. I would have loved some guidance back in the day ;) .
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