PM's Multilingual Family Adventures in a Monolingual Wasteland

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PeterMollenburg
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Re: PM's Multilingual Family Adventures in a Monolingual Wasteland

Postby PeterMollenburg » Sat Mar 25, 2023 10:45 am

tastyonions wrote:
PeterMollenburg wrote:Dutch
Reading to the kids. Of late the kids surprised me wanting Dutch days more than French for the first time because they're highly excited to listen to one particular book in Dutch. Have watched a little of a Belgian series which I find very difficult to follow with regards to their accents. A bit of audio on commutes. Nothing major.

The "standard" Belgian (typical VRT) accent is my favorite, with its rolled Rs and gentler fricatives. I was never particularly drawn to most Netherlands accents I had heard but watching some Belgian shows was what made me want to learn the language, and that's the accent I try to imitate.


I'm pretty much the opposite. I feel a sense of relief when I hear a Dutch speaker from the Netherlands after listening to speakers from Vlaanderen, admittedly that's usually via media, not actual live, alive, physical people standing before me. Some shows are trickier than others. I find kids shows in dubbed "Flemish" i.e. Belgian standard Dutch (not Flemish dialects) are straightforward, but fast-past native speakers in a Belgian made series... I get much more lost than Nederlands dat uit Nederland komt.

When I first heard Dutch spoken by people in Amsterdam 23 years ago, I was not enamored at all. The strong fricatives turned me off, and I didn't like the city and its (drug) culture. I probably would've preferred accents south of the border back then. Now I find the Dutch clearer in the Netherlands, especially around the Randstad and the strong fricatives don't bother me in the slightest, despite having spent considerable more time in Limburg. And as for Amsterdam, I just love the architecture so I'm prepared to look past the underbelly.
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Le Baron
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Re: PM's Multilingual Family Adventures in a Monolingual Wasteland

Postby Le Baron » Sat Mar 25, 2023 9:49 pm

I share tastyonions' preference for AV (algemeen vlaams) accents. I'm biased in this regard having started Dutch in that atmosphere, but it's still my preference overall. However having been here in NL for some considerable time now I have much less trouble with regional dialects here than the flemish ones. I mentioned somewhere before about watching the film Aanrijding in Moscou and at the time understanding very little of the dialect speech. There are aspects of AN I find very grating though: the overdone fricatives, the tiresome gooische 'r' and media-speak generally.
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PeterMollenburg
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Re: PM's Multilingual Family Adventures in a Monolingual Wasteland

Postby PeterMollenburg » Sun Apr 23, 2023 4:04 am

“Consistency is contrary to nature, contrary to life. The only completely consistent people are the dead.”
― Aldous Huxley, Do What You Will: Twelve Essays

I am officially dead. Do not be inspired by death. Live life, be random, but unplanned. Just be! Don't learn a language or you will die!
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Re: PM's Multilingual Family Adventures in a Monolingual Wasteland

Postby rdearman » Sun Apr 23, 2023 7:49 am

PeterMollenburg wrote:Don't learn a language or you will die!

Or do learn a language, because you are going to die either way.
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Le Baron
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Re: PM's Multilingual Family Adventures in a Monolingual Wasteland

Postby Le Baron » Sun Apr 23, 2023 11:14 am

Definitely learn a language though if you want a slow, punishing death.
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PeterMollenburg
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Re: PM's Multilingual Family Adventures in a Monolingual Wasteland

Postby PeterMollenburg » Wed May 10, 2023 6:48 am

French
I feel like that I haven't done enough French consistently enough of late to label myself C1 with confidence anymore. Still, I'm not concerned, as I continue to speak it with the kids, read a little of my own interests, read a fair amount with the kids. Basically it's present enough to not be lost.

I had a pleasant encounter today in my monolingual wasteland. At one of our nearby towns I needed to send sth from the Post Office to the UK this morning. I had not been into this particular Post Office before, but after 5 min or so I noticed a woman, who'd arrived after me, say a few French phrases to her child. Of course, I asked (in French) are you French?

Yes, she was from Lyon, lived in the town (married to a local) and knew no other French people in the area. She was impressed by my French and my children's stating it's almost as if you (ie me, the PM) have no accent, how is that possible? To which I pulled out a few massive trophies hidden in my back pocket, awarded to my by the French president himself, naturally - for being more French than most French people. It was at that moment that she threw herself on the floor demanding I leave my wife. I then insisted on her getting up off the floor and to stop making a scene. I got to tell you I'm getting a little over people asking for my autograph lately, or for me to spend my life with them. Beyond the joke!

Okay, back to earth... we exchanged a few niceties here and there in between managing (my) disruptive children and filling out the details on my international postage thingy. As she left I said something like maybe we'll see each other again. I just needed to get out on with posting the item and get the hell out of there before my kids broke something, but I regretted not attempting to exchange contact details... I really ought to try more to create a bit of a French (and Dutch) network, since at this stage it's almost as if I'm condemning myself to live in a monolingual wasteland. "Poor me, I'm so deprived of French speakers, no-one wants to hang out with me or my kids!" Huh? What? No, PM, you need to check yo' self, fool.

Dutch
Like French, I continue to use the language with ther kids. FYI, today is a French day, the last four were Dutch. The reading has been more exciting of late with the kids in Dutch because of the books they're really into. The French ones aren't bad, and we have a great little collection, but Dutch has really evened things up over time, especially lately. I still struggle to follow the Dutch news and I still have noticeable vocabulary gaps, but I don't care. It's okay, I work on that one day, but not for a while yet.

Norwegian
Progress has been real slow. Out kayaking I keep listen to a limited amount of audio courses on a big loop if you will. It's boring-ish, but still keeps me engaged and at least not falling behind.

With Nils, I've not progressed really much at all. I've managed to at least move slightly forward, as opposed to going backwards or forgetting things. I'm keener now, so I'm going to try to be more consistent from here on. The kids understand some basics and it's not going to go beyond that if I don't improve myself.

Spanish
I woke early one morning and in my half sleep, decided it was time to return to learning Spanish with some course work. I figured, despite not progressing much with Norwegian, despite being busier than ever in my life, despite exchanging a lot of my free time to focus on my kayaking, which has gone beyond the regular kayaking sessions to include some strength building now too, well work has been blissfully quiet more often than I would've thought, and if I exchange some TV time for Spanish and Norwegian studies, I might progress.

So I did. I started a few days back with Destinos - and I mean ALL components - workbook, textbooks, audio, video. I'm not 'cheating', as I want to do it properly to take advantage of the course in it's entirety. It's funny looking in the front cover of lesson 1. I've marked most times I've attempted this course with dates (at least years). 11 attempts spanning 25 years!!, so it's high time to just bite the bullet and get on with it. I'll do it when I can and just keep progressing.

Years back, learning solely French, I felt like I needed to do it all day if I could. I couldn't, so 2 to 3 hours was what I managed most days for several years. Now I feel like you can make decent progress with an hour most days, provided you just keep on keeping on. So, I plan to focus on Spanish and Norwegian courses an hour of each a day ideally and if that doesn't happen, I'll do what I can. Dutch and French are maintained via the kids. Not ideal, but acceptable nonetheless.

That's me. Throw a hater over your shoulder. Where the gators at? An' I ain't even fat, for realz.
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Re: PM's Multilingual Family Adventures in a Monolingual Wasteland

Postby MorkTheFiddle » Wed May 10, 2023 6:31 pm

PeterMollenburg wrote: It was at that moment that she threw herself on the floor demanding I leave my wife. I then insisted on her getting up off the floor and to stop making a scene. I got to tell you I'm getting a little over people asking for my autograph lately, or for me to spend my life with them.
I know the feeling. My apartment manager got mad at me once because so many women were coming to see me that there was no room left in the parking lot for the cars of the other residents! :lol:
Your dedication to learning languages always inspires me. Thanks for that.
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Many things which are false are transmitted from book to book, and gain credit in the world. -- attributed to Samuel Johnson

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PeterMollenburg
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Re: PM's Multilingual Family Adventures in a Monolingual Wasteland

Postby PeterMollenburg » Thu May 11, 2023 12:10 am

MorkTheFiddle wrote:
PeterMollenburg wrote: It was at that moment that she threw herself on the floor demanding I leave my wife. I then insisted on her getting up off the floor and to stop making a scene. I got to tell you I'm getting a little over people asking for my autograph lately, or for me to spend my life with them.


I know the feeling. My apartment manager got mad at me once because so many women were coming to see me that there was no room left in the parking lot for the cars of the other residents! :lol:


It really is such a relief to be able to relate to someone with similar issues. Don't be too hard on yourself MTF, life's a challenge for us. The only guys that seem to get it are rock stars and star athletes. Anyway, I'll keep soldiering on, and you hang in the MTF!

MorkTheFiddle wrote:Your dedication to learning languages always inspires me. Thanks for that.


Thanks Mork The Morkenburg ;)

Well, I think it took most of my life to realise how much I actually do love languages. I was only telling the kids yesterday that it took a long time in my life for it to dawn on me that 'hey, this is something you really love, as you keep coming back to it'.

In reality, post that light bulb moment, it took many more years to learn how to learn, to not be overwhelmed by the (seemingly arduous) process, to settle down and enjoy the learning journey, to remain consistent, to realise that courses work well for me, but I need to aim to move beyond them, and so on. I have a real passion (like many of us here) for language learning, and I think it shows when no matter what's going on around me, I just want to keep learning languages dammit!

Getting back to my encounter yesterday, the woman who served me at the counter hadn't heard me speak English and I must've surprised her when I opened my mouth and spoke like a typical local as she said, "I was expecting a very French accent." I then went ahead and said, "Look given the economic circumstances of late, a solid gold trophy won't be necessary, platinum-coated white gold will be fine." Yes, yes, these kind of comments inflate my head so much so that the kids being rowdy was not the real reason for needing some air... I was a little proud, truth be told - you gotta love it when your countless hours of language learning do amount to something you can indeed be proud of. Hey, there'll be other times when I could feel dejected so, I'll accept this, thanks!
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Le Baron
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Re: PM's Multilingual Family Adventures in a Monolingual Wasteland

Postby Le Baron » Thu May 11, 2023 12:52 am

PeterMollenburg wrote:Well, I think it took most of my life to realise how much I actually do love languages. I was only telling the kids yesterday that it took a long time in my life for it to dawn on me that 'hey, this is something you really love, as you keep coming back to it'.

In reality, post that light bulb moment, it took many more years to learn how to learn, to not be overwhelmed by the (seemingly arduous) process, to settle down and enjoy the learning journey, to remain consistent, to realise that courses work well for me, but I need to aim to move beyond them, and so on. I have a real passion (like many of us here) for language learning, and I think it shows when no matter what's going on around me, I just want to keep learning languages dammit!

I share this. For a long time it was just a 'side thing' that I did. Even as late as studying German/Dutch I just took the 'practicality' view, but around 15-20 years ago I surveyed languages I've attempted and what had been accrued over time. Seeing that as many other things had changed or fallen away, language learning remains as a constant interest. Since then I promoted it to the esteemed circle of 'main pastimes'.

It's a pity you didn't get details of that woman in the post office. Perhaps you'll run into her again. I too find it quite difficult to get into more regular contact with local French speakers, even though I know there are quite a few about. Sometimes I meet them accidentally and asking for details/contact somehow seems weird at a first meeting, creepy even especially if they are women. It shouldn't, but that's how the world is. Whereas if I run into someone in e.g. a central train station (more common) and we're waiting for the same train, there's nowhere else really to go, so I take my chances and direct it.
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PeterMollenburg
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Re: PM's Multilingual Family Adventures in a Monolingual Wasteland

Postby PeterMollenburg » Thu May 11, 2023 1:22 am

Le Baron wrote:It's a pity you didn't get details of that woman in the post office. Perhaps you'll run into her again. I too find it quite difficult to get into more regular contact with local French speakers, even though I know there are quite a few about. Sometimes I meet them accidentally and asking for details/contact somehow seems weird at a first meeting, creepy even especially if they are women. It shouldn't, but that's how the world is. Whereas if I run into someone in e.g. a central train station (more common) and we're waiting for the same train, there's nowhere else really to go, so I take my chances and direct it.


Yep, exactly. I thought, married French woman and me hitting her up for her number, well... Not only might it backfire, but I might get my head taken off by a beefy Aussie bloke who feels a little inadequate up against all my French language trophies.

Okay, there is an element of truth in that, because as you rightly pointed out, Le Baron, it could come off as creepy, and I think it's why I chose to close it off at the end by saying, "Alors, on se verra peut-être une autre fois".

A better approach might've been to jot my details down and hand them to her, suggesting our kids play together some time, if she wanted, leaving the ball in her court.

I was getting stressed though. I had to make it to one of the kids swimming lessons across (the smallish) town in ten minutes, they really were building in disruptiveness in the post office, and although a little comical to others, I could sense where it was headed, and I wanted to get the rather important international document - a template of the cockpit of my kayak I'd made - on it's way to the UK so they can make me some spray decks to better handle the rough days out on the lake, which on a few occasions have had me quickly find the shoreline to empty my (would be soon submerging) kayak. Alors, wasn't meant to be that day.
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