PM's Multilingual Family Adventures in a Monolingual Wasteland

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PeterMollenburg
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Re: PM's Multilingual Family Adventures in a Monolingual Wasteland

Postby PeterMollenburg » Mon Jul 18, 2022 12:28 am

I'm not in a good place right now with language learning....

I'm dabbling with Dutch, but barely. My French is hovering. My Norwegian is not happening much at all. Life is too busy and I'm struggling between priorities, poor routine(s), bad habits and contemplating my/the future. I'm not searching for help here, but I just thought it'd perhaps bring more of an honest picture to my log this time around as it's where I'm at currently - struggling.

It's not all negative of course, it's hopefully just this phase at the moment, which will change through circumstances and intention in the near future, at least with regards to that which I can control.

Not every successful language learner always gets it right and nor is every successful language learner guaranteed success in all their language endeavours every time. In fact if you've been successful in learning a language or more than one language, you've more than likely struggled at times with the language itself or from 'outside interference'. We humans don't always admit it but making mistakes and getting things wrong is all part of learning. Like any project or goal, it's a matter of motivation vs priorioties as to how likely or how quickly one will achieve their goals... of course with some self-sabotage thrown in for good measure. And of course I'm not unique in sharing struggling, most of us do at some point, some more often than not or more often than others, which isn't necessary a character flaw thing, but often a result of (challening) circumstance(s). And as a side note, I'm not unaware of the advantage of being born into a first world country - the reality is language learning is just hard to get done sometimes even with a roof over one's head, access to clean good quality food and water and a steady income.

I must admit that quite often of late I'm not feeling too positive about the state of the world and this isn't simply due to absorbing mainstream media as I feel msm is a powerful propaganda tool designed to keep the masses focused on certain things only, thus I consume very little of it, except for language learning purposes (and some degree of curiosity/distraction) in which msm is rather useful. However, whether you consume msm and that's your thing or you're trying to 'decipher' what's really going on in the world of late and use alternative media which others would not have much confidence in, either way one could conclude that the world is not in great shape through accident or by design regardless of your trusted sources of information. This leads me to confusion and I guess a bit of guilt with language learning.

If the world is sinking who in their right mind would spend hours every day learning a language that'll potentially never see any/much use in the wild when I could be looking into solutions and doing things to improve our family's future (planting vegetables, cutting wood, pruning fruit trees, working harder to pay off debt, prepping)?

On the other hand, perhaps the world is going through a very rough patch and I aborb too much pessimism and I ought to stick to my passions because there'll be an end to this at some point, as history has demonstrated.

Then there's procrastination - the collecting of Norwegian courses has taken much longer than I anticipated, as there's the organising the audio files, the books and so on and for me it's a tedious time-consuming process but something I'm particularly obsessed with (being organised before commencing). Unfortunately due to the busy nature of my life if there's something out of the ordinary (organising language learning content), other things suffer (eg sleep, language learning itself).

There's lack of sleep due to organising, the lack of sleep due to distraction, the promises that I don't keep to myself - I'll eat/sleep/study better from tomorrow, from July 1st, from August etc. So you see, I've got some work to do and my language learning success(es) are certainly not guaranteed, as they aren't for anyone.

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You know I said once upon a time I'd never take my nursing further. A job, a degree under my belt, why do I need to do more just because others do? I don't need to climb ladders, I don't need to do further study just because many others do, I'm happy just being a general nurse. Well I guess that's the privilege of being financially okay and not being greedy and also being motivated to learn other things - languages. Nothing wrong with that, right? But...

Well, once again like when I started to hone in on the goal of going to Europe of which Belgium became the main focus for many logical reasons, I'm starting to get that sense again, so I'm going to let's say 'improve my CV'. So, with one eye on improving my career here in Australia and the other on Europe in the distance, I'll focus on things that I feel will benefit me on both continents. Yeah, I've decided that there's still a chance, if the world doesn't completely crumble, to work abroad, despite my age. While I can't travel now and perhaps for a number of years, I might as well improve my CV and keep working on languages when/where I can.

I was reading an article in French on the streamlining of the immigration processes for health care workers interested in working in Canada, and speaking French is a bonus given they feel that Canada is at risk of losing it's bilingual status if the French speaking population keeps declining. Bolstering the Francophone population is an objective of the Canadian government.

This took me to dig a little further, so I did some reading in French on the situations in Québec, Belgium, Switzerland and Luxembourg and read some on Norway (translated from NO to FR) as well as a quick glance at the situaion in the Netherlands. The conclusion is what I anticipated a couple years back - nursing shortages on a big scale no matter where you look. So, despite my age, provided my CV looks decent there is a very good chance I could get work abroad despite my age in future (I can't go now for several reasons) given the desperation in the health care sectors throughout most of the West.

I was explaining to a nurse last night at work what my goals with working in Europea have been over the years. He's Indian and related to me the experiences of Indians coming to Australia, often with familiy to find work in nursing. I explained about the idea of working in Luxembourg as they have high pay rates and this would help with our financial overheads back in Australia. We looked at a few websites and my passion working in Europe rose again to the surface.

In conclusion (this is an essay!), I'm going to work on my nursing CV here in Australia, potentially aim for some remote area nursing at some poinr and then hopefully in some years to come springboard to Europe. My wife is certainly in favour of the plan. What does it mean for languages?

I need to get on with things. I need to restore balance in my routine(s) and get back to learning Norwegian instensively for the coming six months, since after that I'm looking at taking on a work/study load in nursing that would mean dropping the language studies for a while. How is this different from my last post? Well, I guess I wasn't really considering Europe much anymore, but I want to keep that possibility alive with a good dose of optimism in a seemingly pessimistic world.
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lavengro
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Re: PM's Multilingual Family Adventures in a Monolingual Wasteland

Postby lavengro » Mon Jul 18, 2022 3:53 am

PeterMollenburg wrote: Canada


Yeppers! We would be very pleased to take you Peter!

If you were at all serious about considering Canada, I would suggest making sure you investigate federal and provincial opportunities. Immigration is handled federally with the exception of the province of Québec, which handles its own immigration, but I understand there are different provincial health worker initiatives which complement the federal immigration process (provincial nominee programs, express entry pathways, etc).

If you do apply and you need help with the mandatory hockey component of the entrance exam into Canada, please do not hesitate to reach out. `Hockey` here, translated from Australian to Canadian, is actually played on ice rather than a grass field (as I understand may be the case in Australia). I am not sure `ice` is a word which translates into Australian, as my understanding is that it is not a word required domestically there, but it is frozen water which - and I say this from experience - hurts more when falling on it than is the case with a grassy field.
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PeterMollenburg
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Re: PM's Multilingual Family Adventures in a Monolingual Wasteland

Postby PeterMollenburg » Tue Jul 19, 2022 1:43 pm

lavengro wrote:
PeterMollenburg wrote: Canada


Yeppers! We would be very pleased to take you Peter!


Canadians are well known for their friendliness, so thanks for the warm potential welcome, lavengro ;) However...

lavengro wrote:If you were at all serious about considering Canada


I know you said 'if' but I'll interject there anyway... Visiting would be interesting and I've pondered working in Québec at times, but Europe is where my heart is.

lavengro wrote:I understand there are different provincial health worker initiatives which complement the federal immigration process (provincial nominee programs, express entry pathways, etc).


And Canada is no exception in enticing health care workers with incentives or initiatives. While I did mention CA/QC in my previous post and I've learned to never say never, the articles I read on the luring of nurses and aiming to increase Francophone immigrant numbers all over Canada were the catalyst to find variations of the same theme in European countries of particular interest to me personally.

I'm skeptical somewhat whether or not this dream will ever materialise but, if it didn't I've come to realise that this aspect of my life will not have been a big disappointment but rather a European adventure from a distance in which I tried to make it happen and trying is better than ummm not trying. Therefore, I'll keep aiming in that direction and I may even end up somewhere different, like Canada or remaining here, in which case I'll endeavour to learn to appreciate where life has taken me (or not taken me), as I often feel life could be attempting to teach me exactly that - appreciate the here and now wherever that may be.

lavengro wrote:If you do apply and you need help with the mandatory hockey component of the entrance exam into Canada, please do not hesitate to reach out. `Hockey` here, translated from Australian to Canadian, is actually played on ice rather than a grass field (as I understand may be the case in Australia). I am not sure `ice` is a word which translates into Australian, as my understanding is that it is not a word required domestically there, but it is frozen water which - and I say this from experience - hurts more when falling on it than is the case with a grassy field.


I've heard also that this so-called 'ice' may replace my toes, fingers... nose... maybe even the hair on my head. This must be true.

Everyone knows 'ice hockey' is made up. Stop with your conspiracy talk, it has no place in today's world. Stick with the (state sponsored) science and I'll stick to Norwegian, that is, once I get started.
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lavengro
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Re: PM's Multilingual Family Adventures in a Monolingual Wasteland

Postby lavengro » Tue Jul 19, 2022 5:13 pm

PeterMollenburg wrote:....
I'm skeptical somewhat whether or not this dream will ever materialise but, if it didn't I've come to realise that this aspect of my life will not have been a big disappointment but rather a European adventure from a distance in which I tried to make it happen and trying is better than ummm not trying. Therefore, I'll keep aiming in that direction and I may even end up somewhere different, like Canada....

Hang on, half a mo... Canada is your second choice hamster? Or I guess - given that there are 44* countries in Europe - your 45th choice hamster?

Consider your warm welcome politely retracted. Fair warning to you that I have now petitioned the gubermint to have you added to the official "Known Troublemakers" list. Good luck getting maple syrup delivered to your location ever again.

* please feel free to argue amongst yourselves as to proper number.
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PeterMollenburg
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Re: PM's Multilingual Family Adventures in a Monolingual Wasteland

Postby PeterMollenburg » Tue Jul 19, 2022 8:18 pm

lavengro wrote:
PeterMollenburg wrote:....
I'm skeptical somewhat whether or not this dream will ever materialise but, if it didn't I've come to realise that this aspect of my life will not have been a big disappointment but rather a European adventure from a distance in which I tried to make it happen and trying is better than ummm not trying. Therefore, I'll keep aiming in that direction and I may even end up somewhere different, like Canada....

Hang on, half a mo... Canada is your second choice hamster? Or I guess - given that there are 44* countries in Europe - your 45th choice hamster?

Consider your warm welcome politely retracted. Fair warning to you that I have now petitioned the gubermint to have you added to the official "Known Troublemakers" list. Good luck getting maple syrup delivered to your location ever again.

* please feel free to argue amongst yourselves as to proper number.


Dammit. You know I have a real sweet tooth, but cutting me off maple syrup is... is... not really a problem at all :lol: And to think that I wholeheartedly trusted your gub errr mint! I guess I'm going to have to learn Norwegian properly now, since what other very many options am I left with?! Huh? Huh? No, don't answer, I need to go away and study (well actually go to work first, then go shopping, then look after kids, then, and then and then). You see? This has Norwegian written all over the solution! Now, I'm off to get focused!!
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PeterMollenburg
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Re: PM's Multilingual Family Adventures in a Monolingual Wasteland

Postby PeterMollenburg » Sun Jul 24, 2022 12:17 am

Okay, no progress happening here, so best to make a declaration I'll not stick to. Now that I have a highly captivated audience, let's consider my options shall we?

I hereby declare that I'm going to focus on French only for the next 15 years.

I hereby declare I'm going to focus solely on Norwegian for 6 months.

I have several years of Spanish courses lined up and I'm not stopping until I'm done.... beginning... ... ... NOW!

Hang on... I'm going to pass the Portuguese C2 level exam (whatever it's called) in two months time. I've never studied Portuguese before, but I'm going to live there. I'm scouring properties now as we speak.

Luxembourgish it is! I'm moving there tomorrow! Now let's start the collection of 100+ beginner courses, surely they exist!

I'm going to do 72,000 Norwegian courses and if I don't reach the end I will find a method of life extension so that I can come back and turn into the slowest (but most thorough) learner of Norwegian ever. To hell with sleep, to hell with my job, to hell with anything at all except Norwegian (I could be needing that life extension in a few weeks!). After 72,000 courses I expect to almost reach A1 level.

No, no, no! I have it! 1 minute a day of 32 different languages! I'll learn them in 32 days and I'll be the polyglot hero of the universe!

You know I've often declared a leave of absence from the forum and often threatened to leave for good, so maybe I need to make some threats! Someone will chime in with 'no don't leave PM, we need you desperately! We will give you all our secrets and you can mix them all together in a cauldron and come up with the most spectacular language learning progress ever witnessed by humanity!

Hang on, what about the super-hero of stolen moments? I could learn 65 languages practically not interrupting my daily routine in any way whatsoever. I won't even pay attention to the language learning content. I'll just go about my day, reflect upon random languages and then... and then... hmmm, maybe that won't work.

Okay okay. thing is nothings happening here. Let's try the leave of absence for a while because I've nothing much to add to my log of late, so I'll come back when I do.

See you in an hour or two when I've some real serious revelations and declarations to reveal!
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Re: PM's Multilingual Family Adventures in a Monolingual Wasteland

Postby rdearman » Sun Jul 24, 2022 8:12 am

I have often wondered why you just don't immigrate to the Ireland (ROI) since you have a EU passport and you already speak English. Get your qualifications converted to Irish/EU ones and then move to France or wherever from there. You seem to take an all-or-nothing approach rather than a staged approach.
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Re: PM's Multilingual Family Adventures in a Monolingual Wasteland

Postby tommus » Sun Jul 24, 2022 4:01 pm

I think all you have to do is write all your posts to the Forum in French, and you certainly will be C2 in three months.
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PeterMollenburg
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Re: PM's Multilingual Family Adventures in a Monolingual Wasteland

Postby PeterMollenburg » Wed Jul 27, 2022 10:39 am

rdearman wrote:I have often wondered why you just don't immigrate to the Ireland (ROI) since you have a EU passport and you already speak English. Get your qualifications converted to Irish/EU ones and then move to France or wherever from there. You seem to take an all-or-nothing approach rather than a staged approach.


When we went to NL back in 2011, and for a while after returning, I often had coments like "Oh, why not go to the UK?". It irritated me. I never like being a carbon copy of everyone else (the vast majority of Australians who head overseas for a lengthy stay in the European vicinity have a history of heading for the UK, and that's totally fine, but it's not me and it doesn't interest me). This was pre Brexit of course, so I did indeed have that option open to me (of heading for the UK and then relocating to Europe). I thought, no I want to do my own thing and the absolute main, essential even, reason for wanting to emigrate was language related. I had no interest in going to an English speaking country whatsoever.

But I did actually take the 'land hopping approach' in choosing the Netherlands as I felt it would be a better transition to France for example, than heading for an English speaking country in the EU (at that time UK, Ireland), which didn't interest me. At least, considering my wife, there would be English spoken everywhere in the Netherlands and so it's likely a very good country to transition into (almost like a bilingual situation) for someone leaving their English speaking homeland behind somewhat apprehensively. It almost worked. Failure was based on language level (and thus not gaining decent enough employment) and thus if I ever returned we agreed I'd be B2 or beyond. I am. I solved that issue. The problem no longer remains language related, the problem(s) is now financial and global instability.

The more I hear lately the more I do not want to go abroad for I fear the worst is yet to come in this unfolding chaos. Part of this saw me turn my focus somewhat more towards Scandanavia, but all in all I'm staying put at least until the storm that is on the horizon has passed or we decide that moving abroad will shelter us so much so that it's worth uprooting our family for it (unlikely). Remember I am not the only person to consider in all of this.

Getting back to Ireland after all that. I did look at it semi-seriously a few years back, thinking as you mentioned (and after having already tried NL) that at least we'd be closer to the EU and could transition later. I looked but and I feel like I've looked at every option but could never find the one to satisfy the family entirely except for when we loosely decided on Belgium and then Covid hit. When I was younger and single I was too stupid to make a success of it. As I got older stupidity became less of a barrier as factoring in others became the main challenge, and then global uncertainty or dare I say global criminal disgusting BS that's been put on humanity.
Last edited by PeterMollenburg on Wed Jul 27, 2022 10:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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PeterMollenburg
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Re: PM's Multilingual Family Adventures in a Monolingual Wasteland

Postby PeterMollenburg » Wed Jul 27, 2022 10:44 am

tommus wrote:I think all you have to do is write all your posts to the Forum in French, and you certainly will be C2 in three months.


Thanks for stopping by tommus, and I'm not sure if your comments are made in jest (I have an ability to be very ridiculous/sarcastic and yet often struggle with others' sarcasm directed back at me). Either way I absolutely disagree, but thanks anyway! ;) I think I'd get there in three weeks! :lol:
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