PM's Multilingual Family Adventures in a Monolingual Wasteland

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PeterMollenburg
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Re: PM's Multilingual Family Adventures in a Monolingual Wasteland

Postby PeterMollenburg » Thu Aug 25, 2022 12:02 pm

lemonbird wrote:I'm interested in taking a Norwegian exam as well, is it possible to be tested in North America? I looked quickly at Norskeprøve and Bergenstest but couldn't find info on where those tests are given.



Xenops wrote:So, goal: take the Bergenstest for Norwegian either in 2022 or 2023, depending on travel restrictions, life circumstances, etc. with the goal to attend a Norwegian university. The test examines either the B2 or C1 level, and is more specific for attending university and for working in Norway.



Bergenstest Abolished!!

When I purchased The Mystery of Nils somewhere along the lines I signed up to an email update/subscription thingy on the Norwegian language with links for Norwegian learning resources including Norwegian language café etc. I guess it was in their interest to drum up business, and while I wasn't sure if I'd ever use anything 'extra' beyond the two Nils textbooks and the associated website, I figured it wouldn't hurt to receive some Norwegian language infor. Today that info was a bit shockingly intriguing. The Bergenstest will be no more! The email is quoted below (there was a link, which is not active in the quote below):

Werner Skalla of Skapago / info@skapago.eu wrote:Hei

It was a surprise for me as well – but I heard from Folkeuniversitetet that Bergenstesten (the Norwegian language exam) will be abolished. The last chance to take the exam is this year. However the registration deadline is August 28th. You can register here.

To help you prepare, I will do a last minute webinar tomorrow (Thursday) at 20.00 Norwegian time.
Bergenstest last minute webinar
The webinar will be in Norwegian, since the level of the Bergenstest is B2. See you tomorrow!


So what to do PM with no language exam to aim for? Btw if anyone else has any background on why this decision was made I'm curious to find out. I could go conspiracy and say that it's about dumbing down education levels, but in this case I actually doubt that. My assumptions are that it is a decision to avoid all the extra work load put on the university, another test is to take it's place or they are to develop new exams in line with EU standards. Who knows, watch this space I guess and chances are nothing will happen! :lol: And what's with Norskeprøve? I haven't even taken the time to research this. Is this similar? Which levels are taken? I guess I'll do some digging on it at some point, or someone else will tell me.

Now back to watching via NRK (The Norwegian Broadcasting Corporation) an English travel documentary on Canada, episode two, Québec, subtitles in Norwegian.
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Re: PM's Multilingual Family Adventures in a Monolingual Wasteland

Postby tractor » Thu Aug 25, 2022 12:14 pm

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Re: PM's Multilingual Family Adventures in a Monolingual Wasteland

Postby PeterMollenburg » Thu Aug 25, 2022 1:34 pm

tractor wrote:https://www.kompetansenorge.no/prover/norskprove/nar-er-proven/

https://www.kompetansenorge.no/norskpro ... er-proven/


Tnx, tractor,

I did see one of these webpages before, but this time I actually read them. But it left me wondering, so I also found this:

https://www.lifeinnorway.net/norwegian-language-exams/

...but I wanted more comparing the differences between Bergenstest and Norskprøve and came across this:

https://norwegianmentor.com/norskprove-and-bergenstest-which-exam-to-prepare-for/

...which confirmed both my suspicions and disappointment - Bergenstest is was (past tense = disappointment) generally more highly regarded. What are you going to do PM without the more highly regarded language exam?! Luckily I still have the French bureaucracy to satisfy my language exam nerdiness :lol:
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Re: PM's Multilingual Family Adventures in a Monolingual Wasteland

Postby tractor » Thu Aug 25, 2022 1:53 pm

Kompetanse Norge is now a part of the new Norwegian Directorate for Higher Education and Skills:
https://hkdir.no/norwegian-directorate- ... and-skills

I guess that the abolishment of Bergenstesten means that the state has taken over responsibility for the official CEFR language tests instead of subcontracting them to Folkeuniversitetet.
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Re: PM's Multilingual Family Adventures in a Monolingual Wasteland

Postby Xenops » Thu Aug 25, 2022 5:00 pm

A point of interest to me:

Who can take the Norwegian language test?
A number of test centres only offer the test to people who are registered in the Norwegian Population Register as living in the municipality (kommune).

If you wish to take the test in a municipality other than the one you live in, you have to check with the test centre whether you can register to take the test there. This also applies if you live abroad. You must then check with a test centre in a municipality whether you can take the test there. You have to do this BEFORE you register to take the test, or you may lose your place.

The test will not be held abroad.


As Mista told me, “expensive test”.
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Re: PM's Multilingual Family Adventures in a Monolingual Wasteland

Postby PeterMollenburg » Tue Aug 30, 2022 11:43 am

Cavesa wrote: But don't fall for the same trap I did once. I had thought "yeah, I might take a DELE one day, I have other priorities now and don't need it right away". Suddenly, I was seriously considering doing my residency in Spain. I would have had to prepare for their exam (very hard, but possibly easier than the French one), I would have had half a year. But I couldn't sign up, because I couldn't get the certificate soon enough. DELE takes place twice a year or so, you need to sign up a month in advance, you wait for up to three months for the paper. DALF is the exactly same thing.

This is the number 1 mistake I see people making, when considering language exams. When you need it, it will be probably too late to get it.


This is a risk I'm prepared to take. I'm not ready for the C1 or C2 despite what many people think and I have other priorities. It's still a strong desire to achieve this and I will go for it some day, but right now the timing just isn't right for me. I'm also not mentally ready for it.

Cavesa wrote:
PeterMollenburg wrote: I just read your latest post in your log mentioning having children. It's most definitely possible to continue to progress with language learning, provided you arrange your day in a way that is conducive to this. However, not all people work in positions that allow for much time at work (that's even a bonus for me - but there are always break times, if you get them) or at home even (if you're working long days for example), but I'm a firm believer in where there is a will there's a way. I'll add 'easier said than done' to the mix, because it's not a straight-forward thing.


Thank you for the encouragement. I am just trying to get some things done before moving forward with these plans. My workload and schedule is already horrible and I will be the primary bread winner. With kids, the free time will be mostly spent on family (and I am looking forward to that part a lot!).

As a doctor, I get few breaks and not much of an opportunity to rearrange my time at work. As I totally agree that where there is a will there's a way, I am trying to "learn in advance", so that I can mostly do the fun advanced maintenance stuff later on.

Also, let's not forget the exams for finishing the residency will also take time and energy in a few years, and perhaps other activities (I haven't done my research yet, but there may be several exams or even articles to make or I don't know, in order to finally make me a full value doctor, free to just get employed anywhere I want).


As my comments above indicate re: the Dalf C2, I understand the 'order of priorities'. I certainly understand also how you must struggle to find time in your schedule. Learning in advance is also a good idea. I wish I'd done more of it myself, but I didn't, so I get on with things.

Cavesa wrote:You are a huge inspiration to me. Juggling so much stuff in your everyday life, and succeeding at languages on top of that!


It's not easy. It's meant some things have suffered particularly in my years of solid French study including exercise, sleep and at times family time. I'm getting better at balancing things.... I think. And thank you, you do a pretty decent job yourself!!

Cavesa wrote:
PeterMollenburg wrote:I don't know when I'll sit the French C2. I have no time to prepare for it currently. Norwegian is my main language focus currently and like you, I'm trying to bring a language to a sufficiently high enough level for it to go into a mode that will allow for it's sustainability and survival. Perhaps I'll return to French after I'm confident that Norwegian has reached that stage, which isn't necessarily that high of a level, as once I introduce it as a 'reading language' with my kids, the tiny snow ball has started rolling ever so slowly down the big mountain. Perhaps I'll go onto Spanish or improving my Dutch after Norwegian (and not go back to French just yet). I'm not going to say something and then change my plans two seconds later.

As for the 6WC, I need to get my game face on and claw back the 'losses' - this game isn't over yet! ;)


Hmm, have you considered just taking the DALF exam without any preparation? I believe you'd have a very good chance of passing. And if not, it is not a tragedy, but rather feedback. Either C1 or C2 in your pocket would remove the pressure and give you at least a plan B for your European projects. It could also remove the weight of "am I good enough, when will I do that, will I not lose my French while doing Norwegian,...".

Dutch is surely a good option too. Spanish is a rather uncommon choice for a nurse, as they are fleeing Spain these days for bad work conditions, especially the very precarious job contracts and very low wages.


Last time I sat the C2 I sat it with insufficient preparation. I don't want to do that again. I can guarantee you I will fail. I feel like my French is no better than it was then, so that's simply not what I want to do. I gained feedback from the last time when I did fail in 2019.

Dutch is at a B1-ish level if that right now. I don't intend on sitting a Dutch exam anytime soon. It's a language I use with the kids (speaking, reading), but beyond that it's nowhere near as strong as my French (despite me mentioning that it's catching up recently - it's not catching up that much).

Languages I have chosen I have not chosen for nursing, although the choice of Norwegian has been influenced somewhat by the Norwegian nursing conditions. Thus Spanish is not a choice based on nursing. However, were I to ever want to work in South America, Chilean nurses earn a good wage (compared to other South American countries) which stands a good way above the average wages in general for Chilean people (all types of work compared). That's not the plan. I've been aware for a long time too that the Spanish nurses are mainly leaving due to saturation, so Spanish has nothing to do with nursing really. I studied it a bit in the past and it's a language I can gradually resurrect just by reading simple stories with the kids. Later I intend to study it but its position in the future competes with my very slow Norwegian learning, my on hold French plans, my weak Dutch.... Time will tell. Thanks for stopping by!
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Re: PM's Multilingual Family Adventures in a Monolingual Wasteland

Postby kujichagulia » Wed Aug 31, 2022 4:26 am

OK, I'm going to have to really read this log from the beginning. People are giving you props for managing to study multiple languages with a family and little time. Sounds like my kind of situation right now! (Although I have only one kid.)
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Re: PM's Multilingual Family Adventures in a Monolingual Wasteland

Postby PeterMollenburg » Wed Aug 31, 2022 10:12 am

kujichagulia wrote:OK, I'm going to have to really read this log from the beginning. People are giving you props for managing to study multiple languages with a family and little time. Sounds like my kind of situation right now! (Although I have only one kid.)


I perhaps just get a little more attention than some other members. There are many here who silently achieve just as much as I do, and some of course, who achieve more. There's no magic, it's just about utilising one's time available and pushing forward. My French example is often seen as a good example of achievement. Okay, it is. However, many people have achieved B2, some in fact C2 in much less time than myself. I guess my methods are slow but sure (I think? :lol: ). You might find some good ideas from my journey, you might not, but you'll certainly find good ideas among other members too. I'm so humble, aren't I? I hope you find something useful in your reading nonetheless.
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Re: PM's Multilingual Family Adventures in a Monolingual Wasteland

Postby PeterMollenburg » Sat Sep 10, 2022 1:26 am

August

Norwegian: 79hrs 21min
French: 15hrs 5min
Dutch: 6hrs 28min
Spanish: 5hrs 14min

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My 6WC in Norwegian is going rather well on the whole, but I seem to be consistent for a week or so then almost come to a halt, then I take off again on another consistent run.

Most of my Norwegian learning has come from audio courses, and while this is a good form of learning I do prefer using more coursebooks (with audio) at this early stage of learning a new language. However, I've had to adapt due to time constraints and work/chores needing my attention as well as not waking consistently early enough to at least do some coursework has also played a role.

DaveAgain wrote:I've been watching the Norwegian TV series Lykkeland (UK title: State of Happiness) recently. One of the characters, a secretary, is teaching herself French using an audio course. I think we only hear French audio from the tape, but I could be wrong.

Any ideas as to what courses would have been available to her in the late 1960s?


Thanks to DaveAgain's mentioning of this series in another thread (edit: that thread is found here: French audio courses from 1960's?), I found the series on NRK (Norwegian television) and started watching it with Norwegian subs (+ Norwegian audio). It's quite enjoyable, but I must admit watching native content even with native subs at this early point on one's learning path is not a very efficient approach.

I've also watched a little Norwegian kids programs on NRK here and there (Peppa Gris = Peppa Pig) and other such things.

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All my language learning is going to have to adapt further to an even busier routine. While we will continue homeschooling, we need to increase our income or never retire. I'm fortunate my languages have integrated our family life, except Norwegian. I can continue to use them and expand on them with my kids, I just need to get my Norwegian up to 'family integration level' and the rest is history.

I'll also need to look at other ways of consistently finding stolen moments (new ones or not) for my language learning in all my languages, especially Norwegian currently. I've got to get our property in a bit of a better state and do more outside. So all round very busy - I am concerned and must at least prepare for the worst (dystopia). I say no more.

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Edited to add a link to DaveAgain's thread mentioning the Norwegian TV series Lykkeland.
Last edited by PeterMollenburg on Sun Sep 11, 2022 9:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: PM's Multilingual Family Adventures in a Monolingual Wasteland

Postby DaveAgain » Sat Sep 10, 2022 4:13 am

PeterMollenburg wrote:I'll also need to look at other ways of consistently finding stolen moments (new ones or not) for my language learning in all my languages, especially Norwegian currently. I've got to get our property in a bit of a better state and do more outside. So all round very busy - I am concerned and must at least prepare for the worst (dystopia). I say no more.
I watched a travel documentary recently about a man walking through the Pyrenees. When he was in the Basque country he met a polyglot miller, the miller said he spent a lot of his time thinking/self-talking in his various languages.

EDIT
That said, I've been reading a number of meditation/mindfulness books recently. Multi-tasking is not reccommened in any of them :-)

Henry Thoreau's Walden (French text | Librivox v.1, v.2) gets mentioned a lot.
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