PM's Multilingual Family Adventures in a Monolingual Wasteland

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DaveAgain
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Re: PM's Multilingual Family Adventures in a Monolingual Wasteland

Postby DaveAgain » Sat Jun 04, 2022 9:55 am

golyplot wrote:
By the way, there was another Flemish series that I liked on Netflix back in the day (Hotel Beau Sejour), but sadly, it's no longer on Netflix (US).
Beau Sejour is currently available on Arte.tv.
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Re: PM's Multilingual Family Adventures in a Monolingual Wasteland

Postby PeterMollenburg » Sat Jun 04, 2022 11:52 am

golyplot wrote:I watched season 1 of Undercover back in the day, but decided not to watch s2 due to hearing that they killed off one of the main characters. It seems like s1 is a good place to end things.


Series two and three take rather different directions and I think it just loses it's lustre somewhat and even becomes a little hard to believe in S3. Still, the truth can be stranger than fiction. Ending after season 1 is a good move, although I'd add in the movie Ferry as well, as it fills in the background nicely with regards to season 1 of Undercover.

However, if you are watching a lot of Dutch/Flemish for language purposes (or just want to follow more of the series) then S2 and S3 are not horrible by any means and worth considering.

golyplot wrote:By the way, there was another Flemish series that I liked on Netflix back in the day (Hotel Beau Sejour), but sadly, it's no longer on Netflix (US).


A few years back (roughly), whenever Hotel Beau Séjour appeared on Netflix, I watched a string of Flemish series and they were all very good. Hotel Beau Séjour (also known as just Beau Séjour) was one of them. And while it's disappeared from Netflix, it sounds as if DaveAgain has found another option for anyone keen on a decent Dutch/Flemish series:

DaveAgain wrote:
golyplot wrote:By the way, there was another Flemish series that I liked on Netflix back in the day (Hotel Beau Sejour), but sadly, it's no longer on Netflix (US).
Beau Sejour is currently available on Arte.tv.


Edit: Thanks DaveAgain, your link prompted me to download the Arte TV app. I'll also add to my favourties on my laptop browser. I have seen some nature documentaries with the kids from arte tv on youtube but didn't think to use their content directly. I also was not aware they had content beyond French and German (English, Spanish, Italian, Polish).

When I did watch those Flemish shows a while back, another one that is well worth a look is Tabula Rasa which scores 8.0 on imdb.com. Hotel Beau Séjour scores 7.7. I'm sure there was another series I'd watched around that time too... perhaps it was Undercover, or maybe it'll come back to me. Get your Dutch on.

(Hotel) Beau Séjour:



Tabula Rasa:

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Re: PM's Multilingual Family Adventures in a Monolingual Wasteland

Postby PeterMollenburg » Fri Jun 24, 2022 11:42 am

BeaP wrote:
Le Baron wrote: I agree that input, whilst necessary, can easily lead to over-reliance in the hope that it just produces magic results on its own.

I read your comment yesterday in another thread about people who are constantly looking for better methods instead of getting down to work. I agree with you totally, and the main reason for the agreement is that I'm myself often guilty of this sin, so my own experience is a proof for your statement. In my mind these topics are kind of related: there's the 'input' group, the 'digital' group, the 'Count von Count in Sesame Street' group, and we all have the same problem.

Language learning is easy from the methodological aspect, we all know what to do. The question is not the what and the how, it's rather how can I do it without a teacher or any other external motivation (promotion, job, nationality). How can I gain strength to sit down and establish the habit? I hate it when polyglot youtubers start to talk about self-help topics, but in my case at least I know it's part of the problem. Instead of working it's usually making up pretexts, looking for better options. I'm searching for new techniques for improving speaking skills because I'm too lazy or demotivated to do the ones that I already know. I also agree with Luke's comment from the other thread that there's a chance that we can find an easier or more enjoyable method, but this chance is extremely small.


I took the above from another thread as it's relevant to my current situation and is often something I do even when studying well (I'm not lately).

Lately I've been doing a lot of etiher just looking for inspiration via forums, articles, discussions etc on how Person X has learned Norwegian well/fast/ to B2/C1 etc in X amount of months/ a year and so on. I've been looking for new ideas but secretly (or not even secretly) know full well that I am very capable of doing what I need to do and know pretty well how to go about it. I'd label it procrastination.

I've also taken to another form of procrastination that I'm very well known for around these parts - course collecting! Initially for Norwegian I didn't think there was that much out there, but boy have I proved myself wrong. I've done a lot of collecting and very little study.

So, I've been doing the late nights + early-ish mornings, "free as a bird can't be bothered studying today and that's okay thing", inspiration searching like BeaP seems might be prone to do as well, course gathering/collecting and I've just been plain busy too.

During the few desk study sessions I've actually managed to accomplish, I tried out Norsk nordmenn og Norge, as it appeared to be the prime candidate for a massive course that would rival something like French in Action (although no video for the Norwegian course) and tick all the thorough boxes. Thing is, it probably does, but it didn't take me long to decide I wasn't keen on it. I think I'll return to this course at a later date. There's no English, and while that can be okay, it's a little bit of a hinderance as it's designed for classroom study, so I'll wait until my Norwegian improves (magically of course, by spending time on forums).

Okay, so my list of Norwegian courses has grown beyond 30, and that's not including the audio-only courses that you'd use on a walk, in your car etc.

So, I screwed up June, let's see if I can can my **** together from July onwards ;)
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Re: PM's Multilingual Family Adventures in a Monolingual Wasteland

Postby LupCenușiu » Fri Jun 24, 2022 1:05 pm

I'll wait until my Norwegian improves (magically of course, by spending time on forums).


I knew that was the secret! I suppose, if you double the amount spent, you can even improve two languages at the same time, correct?
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Re: PM's Multilingual Family Adventures in a Monolingual Wasteland

Postby BeaP » Fri Jun 24, 2022 1:28 pm

I hoard (collect) textbooks as well. But you shouldn't forget that language learning is much harder if you have small kids and you're not a student anymore. I ended up with the input method because I couldn't sit down and concentrate on anything. On the other hand, it was always possible to watch or just listen to a TV series. I'm not really looking for a more pleasant method, I'm looking for a method that's easy and doable with kids. And that means a method that's doable with the nervous system, energy level and concentration capacity of a parent.

On the other hand, parents are capable of establishing good habits as well, it's just much harder. I've decided to start small, choose resources that contain 2-page units, I don't care if they're the best resources or not. I try to do as many of those little sprints throughout the day as I can. Sometimes it's just 1, sometimes it's 4. In French the CLE books are good for this, in Spanish I couldn't find anything, so I'm doing a normal course book by page or one article on El País. I hope I can increase the time I spend focusing on studying.

But I know that my worst enemy is the feeling of being overwhelmed: too many languages, too many resources on too many different devices or tabs in the browser, constant clicking here and there. No. It has to be simple, straightforward and short. And maybe later, after a lot of training, I'll be able to learn like a student again.
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Re: PM's Multilingual Family Adventures in a Monolingual Wasteland

Postby PeterMollenburg » Fri Jun 24, 2022 9:51 pm

LupCenușiu wrote:
I'll wait until my Norwegian improves (magically of course, by spending time on forums).


I knew that was the secret! I suppose, if you double the amount spent, you can even improve two languages at the same time, correct?


No. This is a common conclusion reached by the select highly knowledgeable (elevated above the simpletons) extra special few of us. Truth is, if you double the amount of time on forums while studying one language in a mixed up pathetic manner and thinking of nothing for 2.3 seconds a day, you'll be fluent in 6 languages in one year. If you look at a kangaroo daily, you'll half your time and more than double your languages. They say a picture of a kangaroo will suffice.

Get your peace and love on, for realz.

Remember that time I walked around aimlessly? That was awesome!
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Re: PM's Multilingual Family Adventures in a Monolingual Wasteland

Postby iguanamon » Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:02 pm

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Re: PM's Multilingual Family Adventures in a Monolingual Wasteland

Postby PeterMollenburg » Sat Jun 25, 2022 12:52 pm

BeaP wrote:I hoard (collect) textbooks as well. But you shouldn't forget that language learning is much harder if you have small kids and you're not a student anymore.


I hear you, and I can be a bit hard on myself with my language learning expectations while juggling many other things at once, including three kids. Still, I can most definitely self sabotage, but perhaps some of that comes from being overstretched.

BeaP wrote:I ended up with the input method because I couldn't sit down and concentrate on anything. On the other hand, it was always possible to watch or just listen to a TV series. I'm not really looking for a more pleasant method, I'm looking for a method that's easy and doable with kids. And that means a method that's doable with the nervous system, energy level and concentration capacity of a parent.


This is where I'm eternally grateful to my wife for pushing the idea of raising our kids bilingual (this later evolved to multilingual), since I'm constantly using French (and later Dutch plus a little Spanish) in the family environment. Whether I study or not, I use these languages.

However, if I want to actually hit the language books consistently with some effort in order to push a language further, it's challenging to do so with any kind of long-term regularity due to other demands that come with living, living on land, paying bills, raising a family. Which is in part why I decided to focus on Norwegian recently. If I can push through to a level in which I can read and speak to the kids regularly, the language will grow slowly and I can relax a little on the 'desk study'. Then all four languages would have been incorporated to varying degrees in the family sphere of language use.

BeaP wrote:On the other hand, parents are capable of establishing good habits as well, it's just much harder. I've decided to start small, choose resources that contain 2-page units, I don't care if they're the best resources or not. I try to do as many of those little sprints throughout the day as I can. Sometimes it's just 1, sometimes it's 4. In French the CLE books are good for this, in Spanish I couldn't find anything, so I'm doing a normal course book by page or one article on El País. I hope I can increase the time I spend focusing on studying.


Yes, we can do it, but we have to be significantly focused, determined and organised.

BeaP wrote:But I know that my worst enemy is the feeling of being overwhelmed: too many languages, too many resources on too many different devices or tabs in the browser, constant clicking here and there. No. It has to be simple, straightforward and short. And maybe later, after a lot of training, I'll be able to learn like a student again.


What you're describing is the well-known adage 'less is more'.

For me, the more (well organised) access I have to several options, the better while learning with the kids or seeking language entertainment (books, apps to access TV, podcasts, music etc).

Where too many ressources has buried me, is when sitting down for focused study time (not relaxing) spreading myself too thin with too many courses, too many activities in rotation and so on. This for me needs to be consistent, quality, level-appropriate.
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Re: PM's Multilingual Family Adventures in a Monolingual Wasteland

Postby PeterMollenburg » Tue Jun 28, 2022 11:18 am

They say history repeats itself....

PM'S Norwegian Course Mission

Here is my list of courses that I either already own or am yet to, but intend to obtain (base language indicated to left hand side of each). I've already completed some of the audio courses listed, and have done sections of some of the other standard courses. I may add or remove some courses. The list is in a kind of rough order of difficulty/progression:

Audio courses:
EN: Pimsleur Norwegian 1
EN: Teach Yourself - Get Talking Norwegian in Ten Days
EN: Teach Yourself - Keep Talking Norwegian
EN: Teach Yourself - Speak Norwegian with Confidence
EN: Berlitz Norwegian Phrase Book
EN: Language/30 Phrase Dictionary and Study Guide
EN: Language/30 Norwegian Crash Course
EN: Norwegian for you
EN: Everyday Norwegian for Beginners - 400 Actions & Activities


Courses:
NO: Ny i Norge (A1-A2 moderate pace) (1990)
NO: Ny i Norge (A1-A2 moderate) (2003)
NO: Ny i Norge (A1-A2 moderate) (2012)
NO: På vei (A1-A2, moderate to faster pace) (2004)
NO: På vei (A1-A2, mod-fast) (2012)
NO: Norsk på 1-2-3 (A1-A2, 'fast-track') (2003)
NO: Norsk på 1-2-3 (A1-A2, FT) (2010)
NO: Norsk på 1-2-3 (A1-A2, FT) (2017)
FR : Le Norvégien en 20 Leçons
EN: Le mystère de Nils 1 (The Mystery of Nils, French edition)
EN: Beginner’s Norwegian
EN: Teach Yourself Norwegian (1997)
EN: Hugo Norwegian in Three Months
EN: Calst
EN: Colloquial Norwegian (2016)
EN: Linguaphone Norsk Kurs
EN: Norwegian Verbs And Essentials of Grammar
EN: Learn NO - Sverre Klouman
FR : Assimil Le Norvégien
EN: Colloquial Norwegian (1995)
EN: Norwegian Tutor: Grammar and Vocabulary Workbook (Learn Norwegian with Teach Yourself): Advanced beginner to upper intermediate course
NO: Stein på stein (B1) (2005)
NO: Stein på stein (B1) (2014)
NO: Olly Richards Short Stories in Norwegian (A2-B1)
NO: Norsk, nordmenn og Norge 1
EN: Mysteriet om Nils (The Myst. of Nils 2)
EN: Enjoy Norwegian - Teach Yourself
NO: Klart det! (B1-B2)
NO: Det går bra! (B2)
NO: Norsk, nordmenn og Norge 2
NO: Her på berget (B2-C1) (2008)
NO: Her på berget (B2-C1) (2016)
EN: Norwegian A Comprehensive Grammar (Philip Holmes)
NO: Dørene åpnes (C1-C2)
NO: I samme båt! (C1-C2)

The plan? Get through as much of the above Norwegian courses as I can over the coming six to eight months. After that I have other plans and will potentially need to drop all language study for around one year as I'm considering taking my nursing qualifications further (not totally sure yet). I might find French can still be utilised in some of my nursing studies, but of course the main content will be in English, so if French features at all (through my private study/seeking of relevant French content at home) it will be a bonus.

As I've mentioned before too, I want my Norwegian to a children's books reading level and basic conversational level so that I can use it with my kids to some extent. It would then be in company with French, Dutch and Spanish in that I'd be actively using it with the kids and therefore in a better position to maintain it and even progress slowly with it... and have fun in the language with my kids. Thus, in doing so, I can feel more relaxed about not actively studying the languages and not concerned my kids won't pick up Norwegian were they not exposed to it until some time later - better to introduce them at least to the sounds of the language while they're still young for maximum benefit.

Getting back to the list... The last few on the list aren't courses per sé, but I was considering using the Philip Holmes grammar as a kind of advanced review, sytematically working through it, but in truth I doubt time will allow for it. The last two are not courses as such either but I believe readers for advanced learners perhaps.

Multiple versions of some courses listed means I have access to multiple versions. I'm undecided on whether or not I should actually aim to complete all versions and whether there'd be anything to be gained in doing so. Having said that, Her Her på berget is a course in Norwegian at the B2/C1 level in which very little else occupies that space. Completing two versions, would hopefully see double the amount of content covered at that advanced level. I'd like to think that the same course eight years apart would be quite different. I know this isn't the case with TY, Hugo, Assimil etc where multiple publications appear over the years for other bigger languages, but with these courses for Norwegian, they appear to be revamped frequently with new content within.

I also did a little of Norwegian on the Web a while back and quite liked it, so whether or not I add it to the list, I'm unsure. Pimsleur 2 would also be great to complete but I don't have access to a library copy and it costs an insane amount to purchase. I've considered then 'renting' option here via audible or I think Pimsleur themselves might have some kind of subscription offer. I'd be happy to consider one of these options just to complete the second level as they really are great programs for pronunciation and developing automaticity in the beginner stages of language learning.

Some other courses I considered, not likely to make the cut:
FR: ORD i NORD
FR: Apprendre le norvégien en 52 semaines - William Kitsumaki
NO: Sett i gang
NO: Sett i gang 2
NO: Norsk i sammenheng ("intermediate Norwegian")
FR : Parlons Norvégien
EN / FR : Glossika 1, 2, 3 (Nynorsk. Is it worth learning a little of the other main official standard of Norwegian?)



I also have a lot of vocabulary resources that I've found but not yet purchased. I'm not going to necessarily purchase all these. When I do begin working through one, a few, I think I'll do so alongside working with native texts. It would be my strict vocabulary memorisation work as a part of the overall study picture for Norwegian at more advanced levels. I wasn't going to list them, but perhaps it might help someone else out there keen to know what resources are available.

Vocabulary:
FR : Apprendre le norvégien - Rapide / Facile / Efficace: 2000 vocabulaires clés
NL: Leer Noors - Snel / Gemakkelijk / Efficiënt. (2000). https://www.bol.com/nl/nl/p/leer-noors- ... oductImage
FR : Livre de vocabulaire norvégien: Une approche thématique (3000)
FR : Vocabulaire FR-NO - 3000
NL: Noors vocabulaireboek. (3000). Aanpak Gebaseerd Op Onderwerp. Auteur: Pinhok Languages
NL: Hugo's taalgids - Noors spreken en begrijpen
NL: ANWB taalgids - Noors
NL: Wat & Hoe taalgids - Noors (4000)
FR : Vocabulaire FR-NO - 5000
FR : Petit Vocabulaire norvégien actuel (5500)
FR : Vocabulaire FR-NO - 7000
NL: Thematische woordenschat Nederlands-Noors - 9000 woorden (Dutch Edition)
FR : Vocabulaire FR-NO - 9000
FR : Vocabulaire Norvegien (1100)
FR : Mini visuell ordbok - norsk-fransk (BOK). (27,000). Jean-Claude Corbeil, Ariane ArchambaultISBN : 9788257322007
EN: Mini visuell ordbok - norsk-engelsk (BOK). (27,000). Jean-Claude Corbeil, Ariane Archambault ISBN: 9788257321789
ES: Mini visuell ordbok - norsk-spansk (BOK). (27,000). Jean-Claude Corbeil, Ariane ArchambaultISBN: 9788257321987
DE: Mini visuell ordbok - norsk/tysk (BOK). (27,000). Jean-Claude Corbeil, Ariane ArchambaultISBN : 9788257322274
FR / NO / EN / ES / DE : Visuell ordbok (20,000). norsk/engelsk/tysk/fransk/spansk ISBN13 :9788257317980. EAN : 9788257317980 https://bokelskere.no/bok/visuell-ordbo ... nsk/42158/
NL: Woordenboek Nederlands-Noors / Noors-Nederlands Auteur: D. Lulofs EAN 9789054022473



Continuing on from the vocabulary list, here are some other resources I've found, but not necessarily aiming to use:

Beginner books:
EN: Short Stories in Norwegian for Beginners: Read for pleasure at your level, expand your vocabulary and learn Norwegian the fun way!
EN: Norwegian Easy Reader | Easy Listener | Parallel Text: Learn Norwegian Audio Course No. 2 (Norwegian Easy Reader | Easy Listener | Easy Learning)
EN: Learn Norwegian Bokmål with Beginner Stories: Interlinear Norwegian Bokmål to English
EN: Learn Norwegian Bokmål with Short Stories: Dukkehjem: Interlinear Norwegian Bokmål to English: 2



Podcasts I will spend time on at some point, but I don't know what my exact plans are there. Here are some I've found....

Podcasts
Learn Norwegian NorwegianClass101.com
Misjonen med Antonsen og Golden
Lær norsk nå!
Forklart
Forklart junior
Frankrike forklart
Norskpodden
Practice Norwegian
Norwegian & Things
Relax with Slow Norwegian
SBS Norsk
OneMinuteNorwegian
NUPI Podcast
Klar Tale
Radioresepsjonen
Smartsvar
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Re: PM's Multilingual Family Adventures in a Monolingual Wasteland

Postby tractor » Tue Jun 28, 2022 4:36 pm

PeterMollenburg wrote:(Nynorsk. Is it worth learning a little of the other main official standard of Norwegian?)

A little bit of Nynorsk may help you understand spoken Norwegian a little better, because you'll learn words and grammatical patterns that are found in many of the dialects.
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