PM's Multilingual Family Adventures in a Monolingual Wasteland

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PeterMollenburg
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Re: PM's Multilingual Family Adventures in a Monolingual Wasteland

Postby PeterMollenburg » Sat Sep 10, 2022 12:16 pm

DaveAgain wrote:I watched a travel documentary recently about a man walking through the Pyrenees. When he was in the Basque country he met a polyglot miller, the miller said he spent a lot of his time thinking/self-talking in his various languages.


Thanks for the link! I just watched the first episode and saw the miller of whom you spoke. Speaking of spoke or speak, he speaks Basque, Castillian (both assumed on my part given he's a native of that region), but also English, French, Italian and Catalan which were learned through reading and thinking/self-talk as you described in these languages.

It's a pretty area that reminds me of part of my childhood, (but far from the Basque Country), as it is very green and wet and is home to the pretty rocky streams familar to me from my childhood too.

It's also interesting that you brought this up as an idea of mine resurfaced again this morning. That is to think more in my main foreign languages and repeat (silently) my outward English language interactions internally in Dutch or French. I think I lasted 5 minutes in Dutch this morning then forgot all about it, but I will endeavour to do more of this.

DaveAgain wrote:EDIT
That said, I've been reading a number of meditation/mindfulness books recently. Multi-tasking is not reccommened in any of them :-)


I guess we adapt to our situations, ideal or not. At least whenever I study at my desk I very rarely reply to any phone calls or messages and dedicate myself to focused study and I really love this and time flies! For the moment though, I need to multi-task or face far less foreign language exposure, since if I ignore what I feel needs my attention in the near future, I could regret that for the rest of my days. Thus, languages and I are meeting a sensible compromise, and for who knows how long.

DaveAgain wrote:Henry Thoreau's Walden (French text | Librivox v.1, v.2) gets mentioned a lot.


I'll read this some day, I hope. Cheers ;)
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rdearman
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Re: PM's Multilingual Family Adventures in a Monolingual Wasteland

Postby rdearman » Sat Sep 10, 2022 3:11 pm

Peter, if you use a smartphone then you can get mindfulness apps which reminds you at random times during the day to practice mindfulness. You could use the same app to remind you that you should be thinking in another language. :ugeek:
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PeterMollenburg
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Re: PM's Multilingual Family Adventures in a Monolingual Wasteland

Postby PeterMollenburg » Sat Sep 10, 2022 9:53 pm

rdearman wrote:Peter, if you use a smartphone then you can get mindfulness apps which reminds you at random times during the day to practice mindfulness. You could use the same app to remind you that you should be thinking in another language. :ugeek:


It's a good suggestion rdearman, one I can resort to if my brain forgets (it will - Doh! Stupid brain! - voice of Homer Simpson). I'll check it out once my brain fails if I'm feeling up to it and if I'm not to busy trying to survive ;) (think dinosaurs, bears, venimous snakes, koalas crossed with mosquitos, the works!).

Edit:
Doh! Stupid brain!
Het is een goed voorstel, rdearman, een voorstel dat ik gebruiken kan wanneeer mijn hersenen het zullen vergeten (dat zal gebeuren - Doh! Stomme hersenen! - Stem van Homer Simpson). Ik zal het eens bekijken als mijn hersenen werken niet als ik er zin in heb en als ik het niet te druk heb om te overleven ;) (denk aan dinosaurussen, beren, giftige slangen, koala's gekruist met muggen, alle dingen!).

Edit (nog en keer):
rdearman wrote:Peter,


How do you know my name? Are you a spy?
Hoe weet je mijn naam? Ben je een spion?
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Inge
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Re: PM's Multilingual Family Adventures in a Monolingual Wasteland

Postby Inge » Thu Sep 15, 2022 3:05 pm

..
Last edited by Inge on Sun Oct 02, 2022 9:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Le Baron
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Re: PM's Multilingual Family Adventures in a Monolingual Wasteland

Postby Le Baron » Thu Sep 15, 2022 5:50 pm

PeterMollenburg wrote:als ik het niet te druk heb om te met overleven ;) (denk aan dinosaurussen, beren, giftige slangen, koala's gekruist met muggen, alle dingen alles en nog wat!).

'Druk' could also be 'bezig'.

The reason I changed 'om te' to 'met' is interesting. Take this example: als ik het niet te druk heb om beter te worden. It differs from als ik het niet te druk heb met beter worden in a subtle way. The first one means: 'if I am not too busy to get better', is in busyness interfering with any possible improvement. Whereas the second one is really being occupied with getting better.

I hope this is of interest to you.
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PeterMollenburg
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Re: PM's Multilingual Family Adventures in a Monolingual Wasteland

Postby PeterMollenburg » Fri Sep 16, 2022 2:08 am

Inge wrote:Leuk om je Nederlandse vertaling te lezen! à l'avenir aussi en Français :D ?


Vandaag is het hier een Nederlandse dag, dus nog niet! ;)
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PeterMollenburg
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Re: PM's Multilingual Family Adventures in a Monolingual Wasteland

Postby PeterMollenburg » Fri Sep 16, 2022 2:10 am

Le Baron wrote:
PeterMollenburg wrote:als ik het niet te druk heb om te met overleven ;) (denk aan dinosaurussen, beren, giftige slangen, koala's gekruist met muggen, alle dingen alles en nog wat!).

'Druk' could also be 'bezig'.

The reason I changed 'om te' to 'met' is interesting. Take this example: als ik het niet te druk heb om beter te worden. It differs from als ik het niet te druk heb met beter worden in a subtle way. The first one means: 'if I am not too busy to get better', is in busyness interfering with any possible improvement. Whereas the second one is really being occupied with getting better.

I hope this is of interest to you.


That makes sense, tnx Le Baron. Corrections are always very welcome. :)
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PeterMollenburg
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Re: PM's Multilingual Family Adventures in a Monolingual Wasteland

Postby PeterMollenburg » Thu Sep 29, 2022 1:26 am

Dearest peoples,

Debating again whether I give up on Norwegian. I feel like this is a broken record. I'm sure many of us have had the experience of just not being able to succeed with a certain language for whatever reason. I think the timing (the stage of my life) is not ideal for this language.

I don't seem to be able to accomplish consistent study with my Norwegian language courses, but I do continue to go over audio courses repetitively. And while that's not so bad, it's not exactly much progress. Being in a holding pattern at the A1 level isn't much fun. A holding pattern at B2 and beyond means one can use the language. At A1 one can't do much at all.

The problem is time. And the source of the time problem is other things needing my attention. Other things that aren't trivial but absolutely necessary. Truth is however, had I had my **** together for the past several months, and I mean functioning like a superhero around my daily routine, sleep diet and getting my priorities right every single time, then maybe I'd be in a better position. However, rare would be a human being to accomplish as such continually.

So, do I drop it? I don't know. I think I'll continue for now. Perhaps I'll call this a last-ditched effort to get this 'project' off the ground. Otherwise I'm going to go for the 'more is less' approach and scale things (the number of languages) back.

Yours sincerely,
PM.
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PeterMollenburg
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Re: PM's Multilingual Family Adventures in a Monolingual Wasteland

Postby PeterMollenburg » Tue Oct 18, 2022 7:30 am

Spanish (and general talk)

I'm noticing as I read aloud to the kids lately, some of the stories are becoming clearer and clearer. My Larousse Grand Dictionnaire d'Espagnol (FR-ES-FR) arrived last week, so instead of using my mobile phone apps on a French day with the kids to seek occasional translations together, we can use my hefty hardcover shiny golden new brick of a FR-ES-FR dictionary as mentioned. I'm building a nice collection of brick dictionaries with:

• Collins FR-EN (2 of, a 20+ yr old one and one much newer)
• Le Petit Robert de Langue Française FR
• Le Robert & Van Dale La référence en Néerlandais FR-NL
• Larousse Grand Dictionnaire d'Espagnol ES-FR
• Collins ES-EN
• Collins DE-EN
• A bunch of small to medium sized dictionaries NO-EN and NO-FR which make up for no giant dictionaries existing (maybe a NO only one exists but haven't tried looking for one yet)

I'm working on trying to obtain dictionaries in NL only, NL-ES, NL-NO a bigger NL-EN, NL-DE and some others but as previously mentioned obtaining physical books out of NL/BE is akin to bashing one's head against air. It amounts to nothing but a pain in the neck.

Why paper dictionaries? Threefold.
1. Lover of tangible paper learning materials.
2. Preparation for the (partial?) collapse of modern society - paper books might cease to exist. If it doesn't happen, well at least I enjoy flicking through them while learning.

Digital = more centralised control over information received by a consuming public. The justification of editing, fact-checking and outright censorship during the pandemic parading like some kind of paternalistic protection measures (apparently it's too dangerous to work things out for ourselves) carried out for 'the greater good' is nothing but blatant lies. Fear drives control. Taking down ample amounts of valid research actually carried out for the betterment of human health or so-called 'debunking it' might as well be 1984's Ministry of Truth in action. I'm waiting for the day it becomes acceptable to 'edit' previously published works (books) to fit with 'modern acceptable standards' or (socially engineered) norms.

3. Paper dictionaries are better modelling for young learners. On French days I want to be able to look up words while reading ES or NO to the kids but provide French, ES, or NO explanations or translations (EN is always out of the picture). Ditto for Dutch days - if reading ES or NO to the kids, Dutch translations as the 'base language' is needed at for explanations.

I caught myself off-handedly listening to a cartoon the kids were watching in Spanish the other day realising I was following what was going on for a little bit, then continued on with busying about with whatever.

Norwegian
Resurrection underway. Progress extremely slow due to
1. Getting tones right.
2. French translations of new vocab.
3. Less and less free time.

I've accepted now that practically half of my desk study time for Norwegian amounts to getting French translations right, and thus amounts to French learning time. Could be worse, and hopefully in due course it becomes more efficient.
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tractor
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Re: PM's Multilingual Family Adventures in a Monolingual Wasteland

Postby tractor » Tue Oct 18, 2022 8:28 pm

PeterMollenburg wrote:Why paper dictionaries? Threefold.
1. Lover of tangible paper learning materials.
2. Preparation for the (partial?) collapse of modern society - paper books might cease to exist. If it doesn't happen, well at least I enjoy flicking through them while learning.

Digital = more centralised control over information received by a consuming public. The justification of editing, fact-checking and outright censorship during the pandemic parading like some kind of paternalistic protection measures (apparently it's too dangerous to work things out for ourselves) carried out for 'the greater good' is nothing but blatant lies. Fear drives control. Taking down ample amounts of valid research actually carried out for the betterment of human health or so-called 'debunking it' might as well be 1984's Ministry of Truth in action. I'm waiting for the day it becomes acceptable to 'edit' previously published works (books) to fit with 'modern acceptable standards' or (socially engineered) norms.

Well, there are a lot of things to worry about in this day and age, but manipulating dictionaries to mislead and control the masses..?
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