PM's Multilingual Family Adventures in a Monolingual Wasteland

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frenchfish55
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Re: PM's Multilingual Family Adventures in a Monolingual Wasteland

Postby frenchfish55 » Mon Aug 08, 2022 4:05 pm

Hello. Your previous Log is so huge,like FSI course :-) What has happened with your C1 goal in french language. I am trying to learn french grammar etc,so your story is quite interesting.
Now I almost complete Petite Prince and I am lookiing new methods.
By the way. Have you ever tried Living language (french) It is simillar to ASSIMIL.
Why you don't want to finish your goals related to french(c1-c2) and star new goal ?
Thanks
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PeterMollenburg
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Languages: English (N), French (B2-certified), Dutch (High A2?), Spanish (~A1), German (long-forgotten 99%), Norwegian (false starts in 2020 & 2021)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=18080
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Re: PM's Multilingual Family Adventures in a Monolingual Wasteland

Postby PeterMollenburg » Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:02 pm

frenchfish55 wrote:Hello. Your previous Log is so huge,like FSI course :-) What has happened with your C1 goal in french language. I am trying to learn french grammar etc,so your story is quite interesting.


Hi frenchfish55. Thanks for stopping by. I lost momentum after failing the C2 exam in 2019. At the time I decided to skip the French C1 exam and desperately launched myself at the C2 one instead, in the hopes that I was actually more accomplished than I gave myself credit for and might finally be able to put aside my French for while for a break were I to pass. Whether I could've passed the C1 exam instead of failing the C2 is unknown.

Admittedly, my preparation was less than ideal due to outside influences/stressors, but nevertheless I didn't manage to get across the line, so the simple fact is/was that I wasn't good enough to pass. Since then I've struggled on and off with tolerating in depth French study for lengthy periods (not meaning within one day, but rather continuously over several months or a year) since I had already done so for several yeas and with many interruptions going on around us, finding sufficient free time has been an issue, but not always. The result is, I've not stuck to a consistent enough period of effective French learning to prepare sufficiently for any C-level exam again.

frenchfish55 wrote:Why you don't want to finish your goals related to french(c1-c2) and star new goal ?
Thanks


Once upon a time I swore black and blue to never move onto other languages until I had reached C2 in French. Others have reached C2 in much faster time than myself, while others again might learn at a similar pace or perhaps slower than myself. When I stop comparing, I realise that for me this goal had turned out to much longer than I ever anticipated. I didn't want to be learning only French for what seemed like forever, so I broke my self-imposed rule and gave in to studying other languages. However, occasionally I've tried to reboot my French mission without success.

On my last declaration to improve on my French skills I did a backflip and decided that it was both important for me and my children to take my almost non-existant Norwegian up to a decent level so that both myself and my kids would benefit from the introduction of a new language sooner rather than later. I didn't want to try to introduce the language to my children in several years time when they might be more resistant and less able to adapt to a new language. I can already use French, Dutch and Spanish with my children to quite differing degrees of fluency (eg Spanish reading only), but I cannot even read to my children in Norwegian with much success at all. In going on Norwegian learning mission, I figured I could return to further French targeted study at a later date. French is used almost every day in my household and is personally my default language for reading, listening and TV in general and is not at risk of falling into ruin, which is why I wanted to get my Norwegian to a 'household language' level, in which it becomes a mainstay with the kids and I can feel more confident about stopping active learning and returning to French.

I am also still very much in love with France and only reaffirmed this to msyelf yesterday realising I feel much more passion for France than Norway. I was messing around with google maps looking at the Norwegian countryside and the French countryside and while Norway is indeed striking and impressive, I feel more of a connection to France and it's associated culture, language and countryside. I think Norwegian is the first language I've learned in which I don't feel obsessed and the desire to live in the country for several years, which is the feeling I got with German, Spanish, French and Dutch when I learned them, always desiring to live in these countries for long periods. It could also be that I'm older now and realise that even living in one of these countries is a long-shot. Perhaps it's because I've chosen Norwegian based less on attraction to the culture, language and countryside and more on friends living there and liking the high quality of life and peaceful governing of the country.

Nowadays I feel I'm a good B2-level French language user and no longer feel I can self assess myself as a C-level French language user, as the reality is some of the language has atrophied as I don't generally push my skills. Still, when it's time to target a c-level French exam again, it should not be too difficult to pick up the books again, dust off some dusty vocabulary cobwebs while Norwegian will perhaps be in use at home with the kids and able to remain in the picture.

frenchfish55 wrote:Now I almost complete Petite Prince and I am lookiing new methods.
By the way. Have you ever tried Living language (french) It is simillar to ASSIMIL.


Well done on progressing with your French learning.

I've never used the more in depth Living Language courses that others have mentioned over the years here and on HTLAL. I did however use another Living Language series of courses which I was very disappointed with. The learning curve felt ridiculously flat and the courses were just plain ordinary and way too simple even if this course was the first one you ever tried. It was composed of three levels which could be bought separately (Living Language Essential French, Living Language Intermediate French, Living Language Advanced French) or as one big lot of courses together in a kind of box-set. So slow/flat was the learning curve, I feel the three levels could've been condensed into one volume were the unnecessary aspects taken out. The more advanced of the three levels was not at all advanced in my opinion, but I couldn't stomach using the course and only leafed through it (I completed the Essential and Intermediate levels). I didn't pursue finding the much talked about meatier/older Living Language courses as the amount of materials I owned already was insane and quite frankly I didn't need it nor at least half of the other French courses I owned.

If you liked FSI like drills and want a similar course or if budget is an issue you could go for the DLI French Basic course. If you want something free but more advanced you could try the Peace Corps Le français basé sur la compétence, of which there are several levels. If you want an all round course with video, audio, a story, grammar and some immersion, go for French in Action. You want to predominantly improve listening through video? I think Yabla is a great platform for this. The Hugo Advanced French and Colloquial French 2 are shorter courses that are at least beyond the basic stages if you're looking for something shorter. If you need advanced content and want something different to FSI I will suggest some other courses listed below:

Assimil Using French,
Assimil Business French,
CLE Grammaire Progressif du français (niveaux avancé et perfectionnement),
Practise Makes Perfect series
The second level French linguaphone course (I've never seen this one but heard good things),
Cours de langue et de civilisation françaises (niveaux III et IV)

or if you want to go for further structure or target exams you could look at any of the exam preparation exam books, but I think it's probably not the right time for that just yet and it also depends on your goals.

I hope this helps clarify my situation and that the suggestions may be of some use. Good luck with your continuing French journey!

edited: typos
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frenchfish55
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Re: PM's Multilingual Family Adventures in a Monolingual Wasteland

Postby frenchfish55 » Tue Aug 09, 2022 4:02 am

Thanks for your answers. Yes. A lot of people recommend Grammaire Progressif and Practice Makes perfect.
Are you afraid when your kids wll grow up, they ask you. "Dear father,why the heck we had to learn norwegian in Australia? Why don't just teach them french?
How many languages knows your wife?
How many spare time do you have on your job.which\ll allow you to study your languages?
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PeterMollenburg
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Re: PM's Multilingual Family Adventures in a Monolingual Wasteland

Postby PeterMollenburg » Tue Aug 09, 2022 8:29 am

frenchfish55 wrote:Thanks for your answers.


You're welcome.

frenchfish55 wrote: Yes. A lot of people recommend Grammaire Progressif and Practice Makes perfect.


Indeed.

frenchfish55 wrote:Are you afraid when your kids wll grow up, they ask you. "Dear father,why the heck we had to learn norwegian in Australia? Why don't just teach them french?


No :) They already speak to me in French and Dutch. I read to them in both languages. They watch and listen to both languages. They are established. Spanish is less present and a bit of a bonus language in short amounts for now with some reading. Norwegian is not present currently, as I'm still trying to learn it myself, but no why worry about things that haven't happened. Any language is beneficial even if it's only spoken by a few people.

I remember reading about a guy in the US who taught his kids an endangered aboriginal language.

Btw, I don't 'teach' our kids the languages via vocab or grammar study like it's a foreign language. I just use the languages with them. Okay for homeschooling there is some explicit teaching but nothing one wouldn't do in their native language going to school, such as 'can you read this for me aloud', 'can you write this out', 'can you spell....' etc. If we're making toast it's "Qu'est-ce que tu veux, du chocolat, du miel, du beurre à cacahuète ?" and other such everyday language. Reading helps bring in exposure to extra vocabulary and TV/audiobooks/podcasts aid in further aural exposure to vocabulary/idioms/accents otherwise unfamiliar.

frenchfish55 wrote:How many languages knows your wife?


I would say one. She has passive basic understanding of French and Dutch from hearing it a lot in the household and from our time in the Netherlands some years ago. She's able to speak some Dutch but it's quite limited nowadays. In French if I address her directly, as sometimes I like to do (same with Dutch) (and she doesn't mind), I might have to repeat a sentence slowly a few times for her to understand.

frenchfish55 wrote:How many spare time do you have on your job.which\ll allow you to study your languages?


Lately not necessarily much. It depends on how busy each day/shift is. More often than not I have no time lately, but some weeks I get lucky and can get in an hour at work maybe two on a day. It varies a great deal. And in general nursing is a very busy job. However I'm currently working in quieter settings than busy metropolitan major hospitals, so I'm fortunate on some days to have more time to study if I am motivated and the person/people I am working with are okay with it and I don't have some education or something else I must attend to. Sometimes if it's busy I might squeeze in 15 minutes during my lunch/tea break depending on whether I'm alone on a break or not. Some days I'm barely able to get a break. Thus, no straight answer, but I always carry content I can use in case I get spare moments. Sometimes, like yesterday, despite it being quiet, I just couldn't be bothered studying.

Over the years I have often chosen the types of work that generally gave me more time to study or listen (while driving), or I had to drive long distances to and from work so would listen a lot, but it's not always possible and lately I'm not as motivated to find this kind of work as I can make it work around work anyway. I've had to learn to accept that my life isn't all languages, despite me wanting it to be.

However, with my kids using the languages too and me reading to them and sometimes watching TV or listening to music or audiobooks or podcasts with them, what time I lose where I'd like to study languages at my desk I gain in using the languages with my kids while helping them learn them as well. I admit they don't need to learn any of these languages but I engage with them more eagerly for examle when reading with them in French/Dutch/Spanish than were I reading English stories, so it's a win-win, I feel, and they enjoy it. I'm not sure what the future holds but I've accepted the fact they may never use these languages in adulthood and that's okay.... or they may use them every day. Time will tell, but that will be up to them.
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frenchfish55
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Re: PM's Multilingual Family Adventures in a Monolingual Wasteland

Postby frenchfish55 » Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:30 am

People here are whispering that you don't like read books.
Is it true?
Will you force you kids to read books "Just read the f....book"
Is it really more interesting courses etc than books"
Is your wife upset that yor are teachng kids norvegian?
What would you do when your kids ask you "Daddy,may I play with neighbor kids today evening? Nope.Didn't you forget we need to add 1000 cards in ANKI deck?"
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PeterMollenburg
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Re: PM's Multilingual Family Adventures in a Monolingual Wasteland

Postby PeterMollenburg » Tue Aug 09, 2022 10:57 am

frenchfish55 wrote:People here are whispering that you don't like read books.
Is it true?


Well since you're the one that said they were whispering, I'd have to ask you to confirm it...

...So is it true that they were whispering that you don't like read books? Or is it me they were whispering about? That would be shocking. :o I'm not sure how I'd get over it.

frenchfish55 wrote:Will you force you kids to read books "Just read the f....book"
Is it really more interesting courses etc than books"


I'm not sure if that's one question or two, i'll treat it as two.

frenchfish55 wrote:Will you force you kids to read books "Just read the f....book"


I don't know if you have kids, but if you do or will have in future, do/would you force them to read?

frenchfish55 wrote:Is it really more interesting courses etc than books"


Is it more interesting to train for the game or to play the game?

frenchfish55 wrote:Is your wife upset that yor are teachng kids norvegian?


There are whispers around these parts that she doesn't get a say in the matter and that the man of the house makes all the important decisions such as how many steps one must take during the day and how many breaths per minute each family member is permitted. She's not upset about me teaching the kids norvegian as I'm not teaching them norvegian, nor am I teaching them Norwegian. There are whispers I am learning it myself, though. Are you upset that I'm learning it? What did my wife say to you about it? Was she whispering? I get quite unsettled with whispering.

frenchfish55 wrote:What would you do when your kids ask you "Daddy,may I play with neighbor kids today evening? Nope.Didn't you forget we need to add 1000 cards in ANKI deck?"


Excellent question. Oh, I don't like Anki, nor does the neighbour have children, but still excellent question, you're really getting to the core important language stuff here. Thanks for asking such nice questions ;) Now back to making the Anki decks for the kids the next day...
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frenchfish55
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Re: PM's Multilingual Family Adventures in a Monolingual Wasteland

Postby frenchfish55 » Tue Aug 09, 2022 11:20 am

You posted by yourself that you don't like read books(it'll be hard to provide proofs). By the way I couldn't find your previous LOG,could you please provide a link?
No. I don't have kids.
Bytheway,did you study french in university?
Do you have degree in medicine.Isn't it more perspective to became a doctor.I guess with your motivation you would have pass exams easily (biology, etc)
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PeterMollenburg
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Re: PM's Multilingual Family Adventures in a Monolingual Wasteland

Postby PeterMollenburg » Tue Aug 09, 2022 11:45 am

frenchfish55 wrote:You posted by yourself that you don't like read books(it'll be hard to provide proofs).


To clarify, several years back when learning French intensively I preferred courses, courses and more courses. I wasn't keen on reading for learning French and seriously underestimated the value of extensive reading, but I also preferred intensive study over extensive (reading). This doesn't mean I don't like reading books in general. Nor does it mean I'd change my approach in the beginning stages of learning a language - I still like to use lots of course material in the early stages intensively, but certainly see the value and enjoy reading extensively at more advanced stages of language learning. Some people utilise extensive reading much sooner than others. I remain on the other end of the spectrum ;) - extensive reading rather late in the game.

frenchfish55 wrote:By the way I couldn't find your previous LOG,could you please provide a link?


You seem to have found it before.

frenchfish55 wrote:Bytheway,did you study french in university?


No.

frenchfish55 wrote:Do you have degree in medicine.


No.

frenchfish55 wrote:Isn't it more perspective to became a doctor.


According to some yes, according to others no. It's a matter of opinion, so why ask for mine? You should be able to form your own opinion on that and seem to be capable of forming opinions elsewhere.

frenchfish55 wrote:I guess with your motivation you would have pass exams easily (biology, etc)


I'll do whatever seems right for me.
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frenchfish55
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Re: PM's Multilingual Family Adventures in a Monolingual Wasteland

Postby frenchfish55 » Tue Aug 09, 2022 11:54 am

Let me keep you motivated
Did you watch this tv series?
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1958961/
Highly recommend and I guess you'll know Norwegian culture
By the way.Do you have recommendation easy books for french learners like Petite Nicolas,Petite prince etc?
2 x

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PeterMollenburg
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Re: PM's Multilingual Family Adventures in a Monolingual Wasteland

Postby PeterMollenburg » Tue Aug 09, 2022 1:09 pm

frenchfish55 wrote:Let me keep you motivated
Did you watch this tv series?
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1958961/
Highly recommend and I guess you'll know Norwegian culture


No, I haven't but was recommended it by someone else, but couldn't find a platform streaming it that I'm not already using (I'm not keen on signing up for more streaming services than I already have). Thanks for your recommendation.

frenchfish55 wrote:By the way.Do you have recommendation easy books for french learners like Petite Nicolas,Petite prince etc?


Kids books - on the simpler side I'd suggest La collection du Père Castor and L'œul du loup by Daniel Pennac and A bit trickier Les contes de la Rue Broca by Pierre Gripari and it's follow up Contes de la folie Méricourt and trickier again Mémoirs d'un âne by Comtesse de Ségur.
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