Maggie's Melodramatic Monologues (German Studies)

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MaggieMae
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Re: Maggie's Melodramatic Monologues (German Studies)

Postby MaggieMae » Thu Jun 23, 2022 9:58 pm

Ach! Die Prüfung ist nächster Samstag! Hilfe! Hilfe!

So I have a practice test this Saturday, the big test next Saturday, and in between I have to write a letter to the parents of my new students, meet my new class, continue my German studies, work more with Mandarin, and somehow stay sane.

Picking up Mandarin definitely helped the self confidence, especially when one of my Mandarin speaking friends commented on how pretty my handwriting is. :D I worked on it for most of a day (I know, I need to get back at it already) and I'm definitely falling in love with the tone markings in pinyin. I have 3 different friends I can text to in Mandarin, so I'm hoping to be able to practice the characters at the same time, instead of just reading the pinyin that's next to the characters all the time.

One of my German teachers told me today that writing for the exams is extremely dull and sterile, which is actually one of my biggest problems, apparently. I want to write in an eloquent and interesting way, but they want me to write things like, "First, I would like to talk about... My next point is... Examples to this point are... In conclusion, I find that..." I hate it. My teacher hates it,. But the tests love it, so we have to be good little marionettes, dance the dance, get the certificate, then throw all that bullshit out the 72nd story window where it belongs. I think, for this test, I'll do what I can, but not stress too much about it. I can write a super sterile, extra fancy, whatever they want me to write thing for C2. I want 80% on the C2, but for C1, I just need that damned 60% min.

Technically, I got 63% last time, which could have been passing, if 2 of my spoken points could've counted for the written exam, too. So dumb... oh well.

I can't wait until this exam is over and I can go back to a more normal study of German.
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Re: Maggie's Melodramatic Monologues (German Studies)

Postby mrwarper » Fri Jun 24, 2022 4:58 pm

MaggieMae wrote:I feel you! I wish I could read this one every day, but I can't seem to do anything daily anymore! I'm too busy!
yep, probably coming to a halt myself soon -- application development will have to wait for a while :(
It could also be because of what languages you've studied in the past.
No, the reason why I never even thought of highlighting text structures is that when they mattered I was sufficiently clear on them, as long as I remember. That may or may not be the case again next time, though :)
I don't know which ones you have studied, but the German language is full of exact forms and structures that need to be followed, words that are translated as the same in English, but mean different things and cannot always be used interchangeably, etc. There are 3 different words for "why?" And 3 different responses, that all mean slightly different things.
One problem you may be having because of the "words that are translated as the same in English, but mean different things and cannot always be used interchangeably" bit is, you should not consider translations at that point but real meanings, precisely because these can be lost in translation. (How does "if/when" translate to German?)
I can never keep them straight, but it's "for what reason", "for what cause", and "for what purpose". The usages in modern German are (thankfully for me) starting to blur in this specific case, but there are others that are very strictly separated along similar lines.

And these types of words just so happen to be the favorites in German academic writing.
Every time you bump into a word choice involving something like that, or the imperfecto vs. perfecto simple in Spanish, the partitive in French, etc., you are being asked implicit questions (is the action completed/punctual or not? am I talking about the whole thing? etc.) that may not be relevant for your other languages, native or not, but are relevant in the language you're supposed to use at the moment, so you do yourself no favors ignoring, bypassing or sidestepping such questions and the distinctions in meaning they imply. When using different languages, it is important to also keep different frames of reference for stuff that does [not] matter, and automate switching them as well eventually -- it is not just an "academic writing" thing.

As for specific cases blurring or blending over time, that's what happens in live languages -- just like new nuances emerging from different language uses.

----
MaggieMae wrote:One of my German teachers told me today that writing for the exams is extremely dull and sterile, which is actually one of my biggest problems, apparently. I want to write in an eloquent and interesting way, but they want me to write things like, "First, I would like to talk about... My next point is... Examples to this point are... In conclusion, I find that..." I hate it. My teacher hates it,. But the tests love it, so we have to be good little marionettes, dance the dance, get the certificate, then throw all that bullshit out the 72nd story window where it belongs. I think, for this test, I'll do what I can, but not stress too much about it. I can write a super sterile, extra fancy, whatever they want me to write thing for C2. I want 80% on the C2, but for C1, I just need that damned 60% min.
This is why when giving my students a mark they get two numbers -- the one that matters to me addresses proper expression, the other is according to test marking criteria. It is depressing how often there is a difference (funny stories about flunking C2 writing :lol:), but I don't think I have seen anything verging on saying dullness and sterility are a must for proper writing.

To me, what sets good test candidates apart is being able to replace the dull stuff like "First, I would like to talk about... My next point is... Examples to this point are... In conclusion, I find that..." with words to the same effect that instead prove that they are not dead inside. I recently had an English C2 candidate that borrowed expressions from me and all sorts of places all the time to do that precisely.
I can't wait until this exam is over and I can go back to a more normal study of German.
May the force be with you. Hearing all of this reminds me I am so lucky to have no pressure to sit a German test before I think I am ready, so I can live my German studies on the 'normal' side.
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Re: Maggie's Melodramatic Monologues (German Studies)

Postby MaggieMae » Thu Jun 30, 2022 12:38 pm

mrwarper wrote:[ (How does "if/when" translate to German?)

Funny enough, "if" also has three different translations, depending on usage, which are actually really important to differentiate, unlike the "why" example. I learned these for sure. The differences between the whys are not as important and many native speakers can't tell you the difference, either. But the ifs matter. ("Ob" signals a yes/no scenario, "wenn" is the generalized if, and "falls" marks that it's an unlikely possibility, but a possibility nonetheless.)

mrwarper wrote:so you do yourself no favors ignoring, bypassing or sidestepping such questions and the distinctions in meaning they imply. When using different languages, it is important to also keep different frames of reference for stuff that does [not] matter, and automate switching them as well eventually -- it is not just an "academic writing" thing.


Never said I was side stepping them. I just said that in that one instance the distinctions don't matter anymore, and that breaking up what is one word in my NL into 3 (or more) different concepts is hard. Keep in mind, this is my first foreign language. I'm not muliltilingual, rather barely bilingual, and I'm not yet used to thinking along other cultural lines.

The academic writing part I mentioned was referencing the specific words and phrases that I have to memorize and use for the tests, because if I don't use the exact words and phrases they want, I'll get downgraded. And that a lot of these words are concepts separated by a couple letters, or things that mean the same thing in English, but have differences in German (another example: trotzdem, gleichwohl, nichtsdestotrotz all mean nevertheless, but in different contexts), and it's hard. Gleichwohl and nichtsdestotrotz would also almost never be used in conversations, unless they were very high level academic conversations, so, yes, it is actually a matter of academic writing. Many of the words I'm complaining about ARE NOT FOUND in German conversations.

mrwarper wrote:To me, what sets good test candidates apart is being able to replace the dull stuff like "First, I would like to talk about... My next point is... Examples to this point are... In conclusion, I find that..." with words to the same effect that instead prove that they are not dead inside.


There's actually a tick box on the criteria form for the dull stuff. If it's not there, I lose points. I agree with you that great writing says it without those specific words, but the tests don't care. It doesn't matter what anyone in the world thinks, I have to write like that, and I hate it. I also have to include it in my presentation during the spoken test, which I am "more than thrilled" about. ("Sarcasm")

You're lucky if you don't have to take the exams. If I want my years of University learning in the US to mean a damn, I have to pass C2. The only other way is to pass C1 and redo my entire University career here in Switzerland. So, yeah. The exams are bullshit, but there's no other way for me to prove that I can do my job in a different language. And it's not me doing this "before I think I'm ready". These tests are set up so that many native speakers would fail them, too. We're set up to fail, and only the best of the best can succeed.
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Re: Maggie's Melodramatic Monologues (German Studies)

Postby MaggieMae » Thu Jun 30, 2022 1:09 pm

So today's not a good brain day. I'm blaming the summer temps, even if it's probably not all the weather's fault. Upper 20's, lower 30's during the day and 13 at night, so my body can't really get used to anything. It's also my first real summer without air conditioning (last summer didn't count, most temps were in the mid 20's, so it was easier to deal with). Normally I'm fine with upper 20's, but I think the fact that it's been highs over 27 for weeks now, combined with the fact that I've never had to deal with this without A/C before (lack of experience), and it translates to low motivation levels and headaches. I know it's a stretch, blaming the weather for my bad mood, but the weather doesn't care what I say about it anyway.

Of course, amidst all of this, my C1 exam is Saturday. And I got nearly all of the questions today in my C2 class wrong. I missed one of the points of one of the exercises and didn't pay good enough attention to the verb forms.

Did you know, in German, there are verbs where everything except the past tense forms of the verbs are identical, but if you want to have a specific meaning, you have to know whether the past tense version is regular or irregular? I learned that today. (ie: schaffen can mean to successfully do something or to create something. "Ich habe es geschafft!" means, "I did it!" but, "Ich habe es geschaffen!" means, "I created it!" But "Ich werde es schaffen," could mean either that I'm going to accomplish it, or that I'm going to create it.) Yet another random thing I have to watch out for. The exercise I bombed was differentiating between the two forms, and I thought it was focusing on a different part of grammar altogether, so I didn't realize when I was using the wrong form because I didn't realize it was a thing.

That, combined with a completely wrongly answered reading comp exercise means my roller coaster emotions are back to telling me I can't do this. Despite the fact that I passed my practice exam, and only 4 points shy of 80%, at that. (I need 60%. 80% is dream goal.) Jumping through the hoops and being a good little robot did pay off during the written exam. I think I only missed 6 points total on that part, out of 48 available. It hurt my soul, but I did it anyway. If I can repeat that on Saturday, I'll be happy.

As far as Mandarin goes, I'm actually surprised at how much has stuck. I'm going to hang out with a Chinese friend of mine tomorrow, so we'll see what she says about my pronunciation. :lol:
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Re: Maggie's Melodramatic Monologues (German Studies)

Postby thevagrant88 » Thu Jun 30, 2022 2:04 pm

This “schaffen” word sounds very similar in function to “hacer” in Spanish. In Spanish it’s always identical regardless of tense, but it too means both “do” or “make”. You mentioned you had some Spanish exposure before so hope this isn’t obvious to you :lol:
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Re: Maggie's Melodramatic Monologues (German Studies)

Postby Le Baron » Thu Jun 30, 2022 4:27 pm

The real difference is caused between haben and werden though, right? And Ich habe es geschaffen or ich hab's geschaffen being more of a fixed phrase?

I think of a similar issue I had long ago in Dutch between: Ik heb 't gedaan! and Het is me gelukt! Where the latter is much more natural as expressing that you 'did it' as in accomplished something and the former, while it could also mean that merely means you 'did' it. I could also say: ik ben erin geslaagd! There are more. Too many choices and exams are cruel.

Schaffen is 'scheppen' in Dutch, which is obviously to 'shape' or create, and is more usually used in a religious sense here. Though also 'ideas or theories. I can lost in German, especially between the two languages, where there are cognates used and unused: anschaffen/aanschaffen (those where the German hasn't shifted from ff to pp). I don't envy you having to wrestle with all these.

I wish you good luck on the exam though.
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Re: Maggie's Melodramatic Monologues (German Studies)

Postby BeaP » Thu Jun 30, 2022 5:59 pm

2 days before the exam don't think about your class. The only important thing is the exam, you've achieved a good score in the mock test, you'll pass. Forget about classes and minor grammatical issues. The only thing worth revising one last time is the 'lifebuoy' expressions that give you time to think and show that you can communicate efficiently, plus the linking words and the connectors.

I'm thinking about expressions like these:
I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Could you rephrase the question?
It's an interesting question, I haven't thought about air pollution from this aspect before.
The name of this phenomenon is at the tip of my tongue / escapes me at the moment / I think I'll give you an example.
I see your point, but ... / I'd like to avoid jumping to conclusions.

Also, if you need to write an essay, there are expressions that you can almost always use:
are on the rise, need to prevent, effects everyone, has worsened over the years, governments should
These are usually collected in C1 textbooks.

Good luck!
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Re: Maggie's Melodramatic Monologues (German Studies)

Postby Caromarlyse » Fri Jul 01, 2022 6:54 am

Good luck for tomorrow!
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Re: Maggie's Melodramatic Monologues (German Studies)

Postby MaggieMae » Thu Jul 07, 2022 10:53 pm

Thanks for the well wishes, everyone!

I think I did... okay. Most of it went really well. There was a mistake in the recording track of the first hearing exercise, so we got a once-in-a-lifetime chance to listen to the whole thing a second time. If I didn't get 100% on that part, I'm going to feel slightly ashamed of myself. (One wrong wouldn't be so bad, either.) Reading Comp was eh, but I think I did just fine, and I have no worries at all for the spoken part. Being a teacher definitely helps the making of impromptu speeches with only 15-20 min prep time. :lol:

The written portion, however, was unbelievably hard due to shitty topic choices. I had to write a min 350 word argumentative text that not only showcased my opinion, but rebutted the opposing opinion.

Choice A: Security cameras in public spaces make things safer for everyone./Video surveillance intrudes upon our privacy.

Choice B: It's imperative that we try to cultivate friendships with our neighbors./Just because we happen to live near someone doesn't mean we need to be friends with them.

I had too many opinions about Choice B to sort through in the hour we were given to write, so I picked A instead, which is, in my opinion, really boring to write about. I did it, but probably with easier word choices and such, as I spent an inordinate amount of time trying to figure out what I wanted to say, and in what order I should say it. I'm just glad my (hopefully) good listening comp scores can help make up for low writing scores. Unfortunately, my (hopefully) good oral skills only count towards the oral part and can't be applied towards any other part. This is 100% why I failed the Goethe C1 Exam, despite having a good enough score to pass. I'm hoping TELC will be a bit easier overall.

Since then, though, I've been able to relax and enjoy German again. I finished a book, even! Der Zopf, by Laetitia Colombani. It's a really good read, and suitable for B2-C2 German, imo. My mother-in-law was pleasantly surprised that I was reading it, as she had just finished it, so now I hopefully get to discuss it with her. :)

I also spent most of the Thursday before the exam watching "Brightest Star in the Sky". (In Chinese with English subtitles.) Every so often I caught a word or two that I recognized (typically 你好 or 再见). ;) But being able to recognize even that is a start! I haven't started learning anything else new yet, but I've been a bit busy.

Thanks, y'all, for supporting me so much! I appreciate it a lot! <3
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Re: Maggie's Melodramatic Monologues (German Studies)

Postby MaggieMae » Thu Jul 07, 2022 11:05 pm

Le Baron wrote:The real difference is caused between haben and werden though, right? And Ich habe es geschaffen or ich hab's geschaffen being more of a fixed phrase?


Sometimes the difference is absolutely between haben and werden, but not in the case of schaffen. "Ich habe es/hab's geschafft!" or, "Ich schaffte es!" is more of a fixed phrase for, "I did it!", but "Ich habe es geschaffen!" or, "Ich schuf es!" is "I created it!"

But, absolutely, "Er hat ein paar alte Tannen im Wald gefällt," "He felled a few coniferous trees in the forest," is distinguished from, "Er ist als Soldat gefallen," "He died as a soldier," because of haben vs werden sein. Here, haben has the regular form of the verb, but werden sein the irregular. But that's not a rule, as haben doesn't always have the regular form, and werden sein doesn't always use irregular. It's a really persnickety and annoying thing to try and learn, but it makes a world of difference.

Edit: I just realized that every time I used "werden" here, it should be "sein" instead. Werden sounds like crazytalk. I do swear I know what I'm talking about! :oops: I mixed up werden/geworden and sein/gewesen on Wednesday in class, too, so apparently I need to focus on making sure I'm using the right verb. :P
Last edited by MaggieMae on Sun Nov 13, 2022 6:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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