CDR's Japanese and Portuguese Language Log

Continue or start your personal language log here, including logs for challenge participants
User avatar
CDR
Orange Belt
Posts: 113
Joined: Fri May 06, 2022 10:47 pm
Languages: English (N), Portuguese (B2?), Japanese (A2?)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=18051
x 465

Re: CDR Shoots for the Moon: N2 Japanese by Spring 2024 (+ Portuguese)

Postby CDR » Tue Aug 23, 2022 11:09 am

Japanese
My thoughts at least a week ago on my failure to start reading
I have been trying to make the transition to doing more reading (of stories/new), but it has not been very successful.

I thought the problem was:
Reading in Japanese is not yet a habit, while grinding flash cards in Anki is definitely a habit at this point.

So about a week ago I took a day and decided to read first, and work on my flash cards later. So I spent about 50 minutes reading on LingQ, and the most difficult part of reading was, unsurprisingly, emotional.

It is very hard to read, as one might expect, so after struggling with a sentence or an entire story and reflecting, I was mostly sad. This isn't surprising, I can remember feeling the same way when I started reading in Portuguese. However, at that time I decided to go back and do more studying of Portuguese, instead of pressing onwards through the negative emotions. I should have just kept going, because the next time I came back to reading (native) Portuguese it was still painful.

I could probably chart a graph of emotions I was feeling over the 50 minutes. There were a few things that improved the experience as I went along:

Turning off Furigana.

Sometimes it was wrong, but generally speaking I think it crowded out the words and made it more difficult to read. If I needed the reading of something, I just hovered over the word. (If Furigana is on, every single Kanji will have its reading. It would be better if it only showed for unknown words)

Increasing the font size (it was pretty small), decreasing the amount of space between lines, and getting it to display as much text on a single page as possible.

Font size is obvious, it was too small and I was struggling to see the words at the distance I sit from my monitor. More words on the page was probably an emotional difference, it just felt more normal and made it easier to follow sentences across lines.

Giving up on mysteriously difficult content.

Even if the content was supposed to be easy, there were one or two stories where I would get half way through and all of a sudden it seemed way more difficult. After struggling for a bit, I just decided to cut my losses and find different stories on the site.

All of these actions resulted in a better experience by the end of the 50 minutes, but I was still shook.

My Thoughts on Reading Now, a Week+ Later
Imagine studying 2+ hours a day but you still have a hard time fitting reading in?
....
Actually, this is a misperception of my mind. I just checked and I did about 6+ hours of reading last week. Almost all of that was re-reading. Part of my misperception was because I do not read every day. So this was driving the idea in my mind that I am not reading, or reading enough.

I switched to putting the stories I read (or would like to read) in Anki. The repetition scheme is to read each story 3 times in one week (With the first reading being the start of this theoretical "week") and then after that it is released into Anki's normal SRS scheduler. However, the reality is I can only read on certain days (mostly, days I am off) so this has not worked out perfectly. Yet, putting them in Anki has helped, because I already have the ingrained habit of using Anki anyways. This is letting reading piggy back off my Anki habit.

Each card is an individual story, with a URL or page number depending on where the story is located. Some of them I will read once and that is it. Some of them have audio available, so I will Listen and Read, then Read, then Listen and Read again.

The Magic of Rereading
Very amusing to have the memory of a particular passage or story taking to over 2 hours to piece together the meaning of, and then coming back and re-reading it a few days later in 10-15 minutes.

Progress Towards the N3
At the end of July, I reached 360 hours of study time. This means I am finally in the low end of the range of estimated "study hours required" to pass the N5 (325 hours to 600 hours).

I intended to write the N3 in December....

4 more months at 84 hours a month is +336 hours for a total of 696 hours. Estimated study hours for the N3 is between 960 and 1700 hours (Study hours for N2 is between 1600 and 2800 hours). So my total at the start of December would fall in the range expected to pass the N4, but is 264 hours short of being in the N3 time range bracket.

This is the only measure that is not flattering to my chances. In terms of estimated # of Kanji, Vocab, and Grammar points, those are all reasonably achievable, given the number of hours I dedicate to this.

To reach the N3 hour studied bracket, I would need 66 extra hours of studying per month for the next four months. :lol: Never say never, but if I was going to be able to recruit that much more time, it would probably be watching YouTube videos in Japanese I barely understand... We'll see how far I can push it.

Quizzes
New Results
2022-08-22
JLPT N5 Nihongo Master Practice Test: 86% (13/15)
JLPT N4 Nihongo Master Practice Test: 46% (7/15)
JLPT N5 Sample Questions: 57% (8/14) My Listening was the worst part 1/4 listening questions correct. The other sections were 3/4 (Grammar and Kanji?) and 4/6 (Reading?)

The only one that changed is the N5 Nihongo Master. After taking these tests, I was reminded that N5 = "Knowledge of some basic Japanese."

The N4 is "Knowledge of Basic Japanese."

This certainly puts my struggle with reading into context. It is unsurprising that reading is difficult... I only know some basic Japanese. :lol:

Historical
2022-07-4
JLPT N5 Nihongo Master Practice Test: 60% (9/15)
JLPT N4 Nihongo Master Practice Test: 46% (7/15)
JLPT N5 Sample Questions: 57% (8/14)

2022-01-22 (~15 Hours of Study)
JLPT N5 Nihongo Master Practice Test: 40% (6/15)
JLPT N5 Sample Question: 7.14% (1/14 - lucky guess)z

Listening
The test demonstrated that my listening is weak. I am not surprised at all. I was doing decent previously, listening to a podcast everyday while walking. However my walks have stopped for unrelated reasons, and I have not found a good time to do some listening since then.

However, when I listen to these podcasts I understand very little, and I typically don't have the time to actually sit down and work through transcripts or other ways of cheating the meaning of the podcast. If I do restart my walks and listening, I should find something I could realistically listen to. That's a big if, so in the mean time I will need to carve out proper listening time.

I have a Anki Deck version of the old Glossika format. I was considering cutting the number of new word cards in half, and instead doing new cards in this Glossika deck. However, many of these sentences have no new words for me. Which you know, is great for listening practice, but not so good for my vocab size.

Listening to these sentences also convinces me my listening is not so bad. I am able to understand many of these sentences. So I am thinking that those audio questions contained words I just didn't know. BUT at the same time, I used Glossika for Portuguese, so I am extremely familiar with the sentences in English already.

My brain was waiting for the Japanese translation of "These chairs aren't beautiful, but they're comfortable."

Leeches
I have a number of Anki cards in my deck that are definitely leeches. I have tried waiting and putting them back in the deck after a break a few times now, but I always forget these words.

Since I still want exposure to these words, I've decided to create a custom collection on Clozemaster. So, for every suspended word, I find at least one sentence already in Clozemaster and add that to my custom collection. I will try to review the sentences in this custom collection every day, but I already have a back log.

It's a bit of a grind to add suspended cards to Clozemaster, so I will transfer a few at a time.
Last edited by CDR on Fri Jan 13, 2023 3:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
4 x

golyplot
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1740
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2017 9:41 pm
Languages: Am. English (N), German, French, ASL (abandoned), Spanish, Dutch, Italian, Japanese (N2)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=12230
x 3445

Re: CDR Shoots for the Moon: N2 Japanese by Spring 2024

Postby golyplot » Tue Aug 23, 2022 3:57 pm

FWIW, I always found the listening sections of the practice JLPT tests to be much harder than my subjective level of Japanese listening ability would indicate.
1 x

User avatar
kujichagulia
Green Belt
Posts: 261
Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2015 1:26 pm
Location: Japan via the U.S.
Languages: English (N), Japanese (intermediate), Portuguese (intermediate)
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=858
x 566
Contact:

Re: CDR Shoots for the Moon: N2 Japanese by Spring 2024

Postby kujichagulia » Wed Aug 24, 2022 12:07 am

However, when I listen to these podcasts I understand very little, and I typically don't have the time to actually sit down and work through transcripts or other ways of cheating the meaning of the podcast.

Sorry if I missed this from before, but... what podcast are you listening to?
1 x

User avatar
CDR
Orange Belt
Posts: 113
Joined: Fri May 06, 2022 10:47 pm
Languages: English (N), Portuguese (B2?), Japanese (A2?)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=18051
x 465

Re: CDR Shoots for the Moon: N2 Japanese by Spring 2024

Postby CDR » Wed Aug 24, 2022 11:42 am

kujichagulia wrote:
However, when I listen to these podcasts I understand very little, and I typically don't have the time to actually sit down and work through transcripts or other ways of cheating the meaning of the podcast.

Sorry if I missed this from before, but... what podcast are you listening to?


Mostly 4989 American Life https://www.4989americanlife.com/, which I learned about from golyplot's log!

And, no worries, I might not have mentioned it!
2 x

User avatar
CDR
Orange Belt
Posts: 113
Joined: Fri May 06, 2022 10:47 pm
Languages: English (N), Portuguese (B2?), Japanese (A2?)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=18051
x 465

Re: CDR Shoots for the Moon: N2 Japanese by Spring 2024

Postby CDR » Sat Sep 03, 2022 2:48 am

Well, I am officially registered to take the N3 in December.

Did I hesitate for a minute and think to myself "I am probably going to fail this, the N4 is a much more reasonable target by December"?

You bet!

Did I ignore this sound logic and spend $70 on a the N3 test anyways?

You know it!

Let's see how it turns out :lol:
6 x

golyplot
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1740
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2017 9:41 pm
Languages: Am. English (N), German, French, ASL (abandoned), Spanish, Dutch, Italian, Japanese (N2)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=12230
x 3445

Re: CDR Shoots for the Moon: N2 Japanese by Spring 2024

Postby golyplot » Sat Sep 03, 2022 6:20 am

Good luck! Personally, taking the N3 practice test the second time was enough to make me give up on the whole thing and declare in frustration that JLPTs are artificial and selective and if you are happy with your Japanese progress, you shouldn't care what they think (obviously this is different if you're trying to get a job or immigrate to Japan).
1 x

User avatar
CDR
Orange Belt
Posts: 113
Joined: Fri May 06, 2022 10:47 pm
Languages: English (N), Portuguese (B2?), Japanese (A2?)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=18051
x 465

Re: CDR Shoots for the Moon: N2 Japanese by Spring 2024

Postby CDR » Mon Sep 12, 2022 7:30 pm

Last week was not a good week although part of that is on me. I went through a health scare, but in the end it was just a temporary symptom of my shift work. I should have continued with my Japanese studies, and there was no good reason to have lapsed so severely this weekend, long after I had learned that these health issues were not forever.

The only reason was that I was emotionally exhausted, but I am skeptical of that answer overall. This weekend I gave myself permission to not do my main Anki deck, and to instead do other language learning activities. While I did some study, it was not of the length or intensity of my study when using Anki. Or the length and intensity I need to succeed in my main, overarching goal of reaching an N2 level of Japanese by 2024.

Now, I will need to grind through the backlog of reviews in my main Anki deck. I also missed about 186 new words, I will see in a day or two how I will make those up.

What this weekend demonstrated was that my thinking was incorrect. Anki is not holding me back when it comes to doing other language learning activities, because when it is removed, I don't do any (or enough) language study anyways.

This should not be a shock to me, I have used Anki since 2014 for language learning and other purposes, so the habit of Anki is well engrained into me, it is something very familiar and easy to get into. It is much easier for me to blame Anki for my own failure to start the habit of reading, textbook work, etc. I will blame it no more, it is time to set up habits for other things.

(It should also not be a shock to me because, I mentioned earlier in this log that I have not created the habit of reading Japanese, so it was unsurprising that I wasn't doing it. Regardless, my mind continues to go back and forth on whether to take responsibility for my habits and how I study or whether to blame Anki and complain that it takes up "all my time".

This is where time tracking is quite helpful, as it clearly shows I have lots of poorly used time to recruit into doing Japanese reading, writing, textbook work, or whatever else I want to dishonestly say I do not have time todo because Anki takes up all my time. It is the case that on days off, if I am lacking discipline/habit, I will only have time to do my Anki cards. It's pretty clear here that the issue in that statement isn't Anki, but me!)
4 x

golyplot
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1740
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2017 9:41 pm
Languages: Am. English (N), German, French, ASL (abandoned), Spanish, Dutch, Italian, Japanese (N2)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=12230
x 3445

Re: CDR Shoots for the Moon: N2 Japanese by Spring 2024

Postby golyplot » Tue Sep 13, 2022 5:22 am

Be careful not to beat yourself up too much. I've found that no matter how determined I try to be, I can only spend a fraction of my time on mentally taxing activities like Japanese study and need to take frequent breaks. It's not like you could expect to run nonstop just because you have free time either! (Of course, I often don't even come close to my potential, but that's another issue).
1 x

User avatar
CDR
Orange Belt
Posts: 113
Joined: Fri May 06, 2022 10:47 pm
Languages: English (N), Portuguese (B2?), Japanese (A2?)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=18051
x 465

Re: CDR Shoots for the Moon: N2 Japanese by Spring 2024

Postby CDR » Sat Oct 08, 2022 8:06 pm

On September
September was a crappy month in general. 68 hours and a few minutes of study total. This is above my floor of 64 hours, but I only reached it because of a massive effort the last few days of the month. It showed me that I can move mountains if motivated enough.

Recently

Attempting to better incorporate my shift work schedule into my Anki reviews has resulted in a problem. Previously, when I switched sleep schedules I would have to do two days worth of reviews in one waking day. I started changing the settings in Anki to move my "midnight" to 9 AM, as that is when I actually go to bed when on the night shift and it prevents me from having to do two days in one night and ruin the scheduling.

The problem is that with this setting Anki and Beeminder do not get along, and I spent six hours troubleshooting and writing to Beeminder support over two days, not the best use of time.

Eventually I figured it out and cleared it up, but it means I cannot use the addon anymore to automatically report my progress, I would have to do it by hand, which I really dislike. But, without the Beeminder goals and the pressure of losing money, I haven't been on my A game.

JLPT
It's something like 35 new cards a day if I want to get all the N3 vocab seen before the exam. Not to be a negative nancy, but I don't think I can sustain that unless I quit my job, which isn't happening.

So, I've been looking for alternative measures. I've been watching/listening to videos on YouTube that present all the new vocab required for the N3. I also got an app that has a huge number of JLPT practice questions and have been working through those on the lower levels, but will be moving up to N3 soon.

I have started reading again, I did 4 articles from NHK Easy the day before yesterday, and actually it was much easier to read then the last time I attempted in this log. Lots of unknown words still and it takes work to figure out the meaning, but it wasn't as emotionally draining.

I have seen a few studies, and comments from people that those who can read NHK Easy with ease are typically able to pass the N3 (sans-listening). Stevjis 3 is a YouTube who is famous for doing insane amounts of input and achieving a high level in Japanese in 1.5 years.

The important bit here is his experience with NHK Easy. In his progress videos, he mentions that when he started NHK Easy (he had already been studying Japanese for 6 months), he understood about 1/10 sentences without any help. 1 month later, reading 4 articles a day Monday-Friday, he was able to understand 9-10. After 3 months total, he moved to reading the regular news (and experienced a drop in comprehension at first, but it increased as the months passed)

Can you see where I am going with this?

I am going to attempt to recreate his success by reading 4 articles a day (and drilling unknown vocab) until the exam. If I can make NHK Easy, easy, I might be able to pass the exam.

When October first started, I had designed a study process from now till December 4th that was almost 100% JLPT focused. But, I eventually decided that I had a lot to lose doing it this way if I fail. I will have sunk 2 months of time into test specific training.

If instead I focus on NHK Easy but fail the exam, sinking two months into reading the news is acceptable. Additionally, I needed to make plans that extend beyond December 4th. The goal/intention is two years of intensive study, not almost 1 year then stop and wait for the test results :lol:

Oct & Nov 2022
- Read 4 NHK Easy Articles a day
- See all N5-N3 Grammar points in Anki
- "Complete" Migii N3 practice questions
- Complete 3 Full Mock N3 Tests
- Complete N3 Kanji Reading Deck
- Learn as much vocab as possible
- Sustain RRTK

After Dec 4, 2022 until I leave for Brazil
- Continue Reading 4 NHK Easy Articles a day (M-F only now)
- Sustain all Anki decks
- Read as much Portuguese as you can manage

While in Brazil:
- Re-read old NHK Easy articles when time
- Sustain Anki decks

New Year (till end of January)
- Continue 4 NHK Easy Articles per day, M-F
- 5 New N2 Grammar cards per day
- 5 New RRTK cards per day
- Start Tobira
- Learn readings for N5-4 Kanji you don't know
- Take some practice tests or whatever you can find online to benchmark your Japanese
- Sustain other decks
5 x

User avatar
CDR
Orange Belt
Posts: 113
Joined: Fri May 06, 2022 10:47 pm
Languages: English (N), Portuguese (B2?), Japanese (A2?)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=18051
x 465

Re: CDR Shoots for the Moon: N2 Japanese by Spring 2024

Postby CDR » Sat Oct 15, 2022 3:11 pm

Luke's log gave me the idea that one could use progress bars for your progress in each post.

1700 Hours of Japanese Study : 493 / 1700
This number might be off, I haven't collected all my hours into my spreadsheet yet.

NHK News Web Easy Articles Read : 16 / 228
I am already behind, however based on yesterday's progress, I can read 4 articles in about an hour (each one takes about 13-18 minutes) so it shouldn't be impossible. It is difficult to find the hour on day's I work however (as, doing Anki is another hour and a half). I'll figure something out.

2x Super Challenge - Japanese Films : 27 / 200
2x Super Challenge - Japanese Books : 0 / 200 (0.7)

I've set up some Beeminder goals to get me going on this, reading is going to be difficult to keep up, but I will try my best. The math is about 12 pages per day if I want to make it to 100 books (not 200!), I spent 2 hours yesterday reading NHK articles and that was 7 pages.

Super Challenge - Portuguese Films : 33 / 100
Super Challenge - Portuguese Books : 0 / 100 (0.5)

I registered for Portuguese in the Super Challenge for films, and while I have started reading a book or two, I haven't finished any yet so I haven't bothered to tweet the progress. I will consider reading more in Portuguese in the New Year, or at least after the N3.
4 x


Return to “Language logs”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests