Carpe Coffeam

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Radioclare
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
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Re: Carpe Coffeam

Postby Radioclare » Tue Aug 02, 2022 7:52 pm

Cavesa wrote:Not sure who is marianilsen, my brain doesn't connect to name to any log, I should probably pay more attention.

Not 100% sure but I think this is Mista? She said she was signing up with Russian :)

Whilst I'd love to follow your progress with another Slavic language, you do sound like you have plenty of other challenges to keep you busy at the moment!!
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Cavesa
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Re: Carpe Coffeam

Postby Cavesa » Wed Aug 03, 2022 4:49 pm

Hmm, could be Mista! Thanks

But overall, we are running a rather strong 6wc this time! I hope we'll stick to it for the whole 6 weeks.

I am in one fourth of my Nuovissimo Progetto Italiano 1. Adding Perfetto 1, a grammar workbook. Watching Westworld and Manifest in Italian (Yep, I'll need to switch to originals soon, for SC). Starting a book. I want extensive reading, but feel as if I should understand perfectly (therefore intensive reading). But I will resist, because I know intensive reading leads only to burnout in my case, at least with paper books. And I am already doing a fair share of overlearning and intensiveness with Progetto.

The exam date is the 22/11/22.
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Cavesa
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Re: Carpe Coffeam

Postby Cavesa » Wed Aug 10, 2022 6:56 pm

I started the 6WC so well. And than it stopped. Covid and some bacterial surinfection. Sleep and fatigue are not compatible with studying, working, or anything. Cough is annoying. But my exam is not that far away (and with it much wider options to search for the next job), so I am fortunately fit enough from today on. Moving forward!

I am still in unit 4 of the coursebook, and unit 3 of the workbook. I've finally encountered something a bit challenging: preposizioni articolate. As this is mostly a written thing (I get right all those easy to understand by ear or to say), it is finally a challenge.

We sometimes discuss how to use textbooks and various threads have been a source of inspiration. What do I do with the coursebook and workbook:
-every audio is an opportunity for repeating after it. And/or for dictation. I don't do the real shadowing, I've always hated it and been incapable of being just a bit behind the audio, I repeat after smaller sections.
-every text and exercise is an opportunity for scriptorium. Or a variant of it. I read stuff out loud, I rewrite it slowly, sometimes a few times (if there is something harder, something new, or a mistake), or I write and then read.
-I do all the exercises and sometimes harder than they are supposed to be done, so I rewrite stuff, repeat the whole conjugation instead of the two or three demanded parts, etc.

I am not really doing much of SRS, except for Linguno. I might get back to Speakly but I am a bit hesitant, afraid of burning out. No Anki, I need it for something else now and I am really afraid of burning out.

Oh, and I really understand quite well people speaking Italian. With some exceptions. It looks like the Swiss Italian might be different from what I am used to from tv series. Especially fast Swiss Italian full of jokes. I got a big part of that conversation, but not the 98-100% I am used to.

And sharing something to amuse you: I am considering anything to get my German back. I've even found a language school that might be individual and also flexible enough for my schedule. No clue whether I'll join, they'd have to answer a few questions first, for example the price. But they might be teaching Swiss German, which is a huge plus, and making me get back to the language I dislike but need. I tried their online test. And guess what: C1 :-D :-D :-D :-D I know I was on the weaker side of the B2 spectrum at my best moment. There is no way I'd be a B2 right now, after a few months of nothing. But the test says C1, which is just another example of how little reliable these online tests are. Not sure I'll sign up, but who knows.
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Mista
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Location: Norway
Languages: Norwegian (N), English (QN). Studied Ancient Greek (MA), Linguistics (MA), Latin (BA), German (BA). Italian at A2/B1 level. Learning: French, Japanese, Russian (focus) and various others, like Polish, Spanish, Vietnamese, and anything that comes my way. Also know some Sanskrit (but not the script) and Coptic. Really want to learn Arabic and Amharic.
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=7497
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Re: Carpe Coffeam

Postby Mista » Wed Aug 10, 2022 7:33 pm

Radioclare wrote:
Cavesa wrote:Not sure who is marianilsen, my brain doesn't connect to name to any log, I should probably pay more attention.

Not 100% sure but I think this is Mista? She said she was signing up with Russian :)


I can confirm that! :)
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Cavesa
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Re: Carpe Coffeam

Postby Cavesa » Wed Aug 10, 2022 11:36 pm

Mista wrote:
Radioclare wrote:
Cavesa wrote:Not sure who is marianilsen, my brain doesn't connect to name to any log, I should probably pay more attention.

Not 100% sure but I think this is Mista? She said she was signing up with Russian :)


I can confirm that! :)

Awesome! You're doing great!
.......
Btw I am now reworking the progress bar garden on the first page of this log. I got a job and totally forgot about it :-D The best reason. However, as I am learning again, and reading and watching stuff for SC, I should get back to it. And I need to finally join SC on twitter, not just on forum, to count stuff in and compete :-)

The progress bar garden post will need several updates, to become presentable. So for now, it is work in progress.
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Cavesa
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Re: Carpe Coffeam

Postby Cavesa » Fri Aug 12, 2022 10:42 pm

This might be the most surprising post in all of my logs so far. I signed up for a language class. It's damn expensive. I am surprised.
The German test at the beginning sorted me as some sort of B2.1.3 (really, there are so many sublevels), which is rather precise, except for my currently terrible speaking. But it reassured me, considering my fear of having lost everything I had learnt already.

What convinced me:

-I really dislike learning German in some ways, I could do with much more extra motivation. With this amount of money, I want to succeed,and then move on, maintain, profit as much as possible.

-Classes with 1-5 people, usually 1 or 2. Always at the same level. One of my main class complaints solved, this is the second time I see small groups offered and not "small groups" with a crowd of 12 people. Oh, and it is not online, which is a huge plus. I am sort of fed up with videochats. Zoom is one of the riders of the apolalypse.

-72 or 75 or something sublevels from 0 to B2. (I am somehwere around 57, I think). Which really leads to people at a very similar level being sorted togehter. Another of the common problems solved.

-A school with a system based on independent learning of the material and then a class with a teacher. Finally!!!! This should be the part of much cheaper courses too. This school has their own digital platform for it, no clue whether there is a textbook and workbook, but I will be presented with the platform next week. Really, this could be easily implemented in cheaper courses too, just with the easily available textbooks. You only get to the class after finishing the homework, which (from what I was told) takes motly 4-6 hours. And the class is really focused 100% on practice, at least it was described to me that way.

-Flexibility. That's part of the huge price tag. With my work schedule, I cannot sign up for any regular thing. With 50 hour (officially, really more like 60 or more) hour work weeks and every week different, I'd easily miss 90% of any regular class. With this school, I can sign up for the next class every week based on the current schedule. Missed weeks can be recuperated (so, no problem with travelling, illness, etc).

-They seem to really have a system designed to get people to solid B2 in 72 or 79 or what was the number weeks. That's what people are paying tons of money for.

-And if I get to the end of their curriculum for B2 faster than what I am signing up for, the resting money can be converted to the individual C1 classes.

What makes me worried:

-The price. It is huge. It is a swiss price. We're talking about the price of my rent back in Belgium. I am doing this, because I think German on my CV can pay me back, and because I am sort of in an impasse with this language, I need to force myself to not forget it but instead get to C1 (nope, B2 is not enough for my career needs.)

-Not sure how much focus on writing there will be, I will need to ask and really make sure high quality feedback to writing will be part of the routine.

-I was very surprised by their surprise by my demand about the Swiss German. I need the Swiss German to understand my patients and surely some future colleagues. Swiss German is hard to get enough input for (which is one of the reasons that made me even consider this in the first place), German German has Star Trek :-) . Swiss German is the language spoken in the country I am living in. So, why did I hear "hmm, I'll ask which teachers are comfortable with Swiss German, it is a rather unusual demand" ?!

-It is a lot of money. You could get resources for 0-B2 for the price of one month or much less.

-C1 level is differently structured. That is good, as it is individual, but also bad, as I have no clue whether they are good at teaching C1. They don't have C2 on their curriculum.

-The price. It is soooo much! I am a bit of a spoiled girl, with my salary, this will go from the "to put aside for worse times" part of the budget. Yes, I could put aside for something like a house instead. But: 1.I will move several more times during the residency, so such investments are not that near. 2.German can actually get me more income. I definitely wouldn't pay this for Italian, Spanish, or any other language (also, those languages are much easier on my own, thanks to my love for them. Not the case of German).

-Of course I'll need to continue self study. There is no Medical German part, that's still up to me. And I probably caught PM's bug with overlearning stuff from various resources and I find it very useful.

One more point:
I plan to convince my fiancé to join and get their French course. The price:a wedding gift :-D But we are planning a future together, a future a big part of which should be built in the francophone world. He is not doing well enough on his own, when it comes to language learning (not his fault, many people aren't). Regular structure combining independent learning (and he is definitely not a passive classgoer by nature either) and regular teacher meeting, with speaking and corrections, that could really help. And the plan of less than 80 weeks till B2, that is a very solid project.

And with me learning German, he can't say "yeah, but you are just enjoying languages" :-D
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Lawyer&Mom
Blue Belt
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Re: Carpe Coffeam

Postby Lawyer&Mom » Fri Aug 12, 2022 11:29 pm

Sounds dreamy. I’d pay a lot for anyone with 72 levels to B2! Please let us know how it goes!
5 x
Grammaire progressive du français -
niveau debutant
: 60 / 60

Grammaire progressive du francais -
intermédiaire
: 25 / 52

Pimsleur French 1-5
: 3 / 5

Caromarlyse
Green Belt
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Languages: English (N), French (C1-ish), German (B2/C1-ish), Russian (B1-ish), Portuguese (B1-ish), Welsh (complete beginner), Spanish (in hibernation)
(All levels estimates and given as a guide only)
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Re: Carpe Coffeam

Postby Caromarlyse » Sun Aug 14, 2022 4:25 pm

You might be interested in Easy German podcast episode no 246, in which they talk about learning Swiss German.
2 x

Cavesa
Black Belt - 4th Dan
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Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:46 am
Languages: Czech (N), French (C2) English (C1), Italian (C1), Spanish, German (C1)
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Re: Carpe Coffeam

Postby Cavesa » Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:11 pm

Yes, sounds dreamy, but now we'll see the reality. I'll report it here in my log.

I continue with my Italian of course, it is an important language for me, and also one of the languages of Switzerland, that I get to use right now as often as German (or more).

Thanks for the tip, I'll have a look at the Swiss german episode.

This post is more about use of languages etc. Not much learning done during a weekend at work :-D

1.My French is improving again!!! I love it. It's just small things. A few colloquial thing used here in my region and among my colleagues, that got into my speech. Btw there are some clear French-Italian influences, it's fun to observe (such as "volontiers" being used very often, which I hand't observed in France or Belgium, it may be influenced by the use of "volontieri" in Italian. And the common greeting "Ciao" with a bit more French pronunciation, very often redusted to something like "cio" or "cho" or how to transcribe it). I am againg being pulled upwards, not downwards by my surroundings :-) I love it. Sometimes, I even get corrected by a coworker or boss, which is great. For example, I have finally gotten rid of one or two fossilised mistakes, such as LE coude, not la coude. :-D My overall pronunciation and accent may really improve in the years to come. I am surrouded by mostly natives, and the non natives are mostly very very good. Of course not everyone, but the % is very favorable.

2.My written French. I am improving my documentation writing. The standard is again different, which is only to be expected. But I really miss a sort of a grammar guidance. In doctor writing, natives often leave out personal pronouns and such stuff, it looks a bit more like in Italian/Spanish. I think I might be overusing articles too, they are often left out as well. But the line between not overusing and underusing stuff is really really thin. But yeah, I am sometimes under so much pressure to make so much paperwork that the quality gets secondary. But overall, I am trying to get the good habits.

3.I got to read a Slovak report recently! A patient who had lived in Slovakia for 12 years, and now visits often, came to us for a follow up on an injury. And it happened in Košice and she got a report. She was like "hmm, it won't help you but perhaps I can translate a bit" and I was like "nah, it's good, just hand it over" :-D So cool! And I realised, for the hundreth time, how different is the doctor writing in the francophone world and in the former Czechoslovakia. If I ever go back to the Czech Republic (and of course only in a sufficient position to do the job well and not be a slave), this will be one of the things I will definitely try to change around me, at least by my example. Yes, it may take slightly more time to make a good report/letter for your colleague, but it's worth it.

Not every francophone doctor does it really well, but the overall level of trying is simply higher. It's not just about length, it doesn't have to be long at all times (it is sometimes worse to have too much sauce). But it is about the whole culture and idea. The typical Czech/Slovak letters/reports are a poor representation even of very good care of the patient. They usually leave me with questions. And they lack the human touch, the thought of the colleague reading it. (And yes, many of mine are rather shitty, I am still learning. But I know it! And I am appropriately ashamed! :-D)
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Cavesa
Black Belt - 4th Dan
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Re: Carpe Coffeam

Postby Cavesa » Mon Aug 15, 2022 7:39 pm

Yes! I've just broken through a wall in my Italian learning. I was feeling so stuck in the 3rd lesson in the exercise book!!! Prepositions are harder than verb tenses, and I lost my momentum due to too much work. But I've completed the 3rd one and am happily continuing through the fourth one! Onwards!
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