Carpe Coffeam

Continue or start your personal language log here, including logs for challenge participants
Cavesa
Black Belt - 4th Dan
Posts: 4960
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:46 am
Languages: Czech (N), French (C2) English (C1), Italian (C1), Spanish, German (C1)
x 17566

Re: Carpe Coffeam

Postby Cavesa » Thu Jun 16, 2022 5:09 pm

Thank you, Alyose!!! This is great!
But I'll still need to learn basic grammar and other vocab to make full use of it.

I am finally in a stable enough situation to get back to language and other learning. Don't get me wrong, a lot of stuff is still extremely temporary, such as the living arrangements (this tiny room with shared kitchennette and bathroom is really not great, but I have too little energy to get house hunting to the next speed). And The Job can be exhausting and time consuming (in theory 50h a week, in reality with my beginner's paperwork incompetence overtime 60h), but I love it. I am also very happy with my coworkers.

In these living conditions, looking for my beloved old Italian coursebooks is rather hard. Yep, I am spoiled, I am buying something new instead of looking through a ton of boxes and bags. :-D I am giving a go to an online version of a coursebook.

The goal: Reviewing Italian from scratch, to complete everything and get my C1 certificate in November. With Nuovissimo Progetto Italian. Why: It looks quite well done, and the early levels seem to be rather condensed. They are publishing a C2 level this year, which is very promissing (not just because there are few resources for the level. We might even argue whether such coursebooks are needed. But it also means they have faith in efficiency of their books for levels A1-C1). And they have a good looking online platform. Yeah, I will probably complain about some things, we all know one of the main problems: publishers of high quality content (typically coursebooks) tend to have trash digital platforms (some have been selling just some sort of ineditable scans of the real books for the same price), while makers of the very good platforms tend to have trash content. Let's see how this goes.

First impressions: I like that it is a one time payment for each tool. I sort of hoped the exercise book would be in one package for one price with the textbook, but ok, it is not too expensive. You are prepaying time, you are pay for more, should you need it. No subscription, no risk of just forgetting and paying for nothing, if you have too much work or other preoccupations for a month. The time limit might seem a bit annoying, a paper book is yours forever, no matter when do you want to review from it. But this (70 hours in the next 18 months) might actually be pretty motivating for some learners!

For now I have the first textbook, A1-A2. Is the 25 euro price worth it, given my level of Italian (which is B1/B2ish with C1 comprehension but some gaps all over)? Not sure. But I can fortunately afford this (hey, better than buying tobacco...).

The platform Idee looks ok, I'll let you know my impressions in the next week.
14 x

Cavesa
Black Belt - 4th Dan
Posts: 4960
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:46 am
Languages: Czech (N), French (C2) English (C1), Italian (C1), Spanish, German (C1)
x 17566

Re: Carpe Coffeam

Postby Cavesa » Sun Jul 03, 2022 7:28 pm

Finally finding more time for learning, in all the work and stuff.

I keep using languages at work. Not just French, but also Italian from time to time, and one patient in my bad German and their bad French (the wife accompanying them spoke only German, but we made ourselves mutually understood).

I am a bit sad about losing my German. I insist that there is nothing wrong about "cramming" or just learning fast. The problem is that I stopped maintaining and practicing almost immediately, as I got the new job that takes a lot of my time. I need to recover that.

Italian is one of my favourites now.

Let me tell you a bit more about the digital version of Nuovissimo Progetto, as promissed. I also bought the workbook for 8 euro, and I find it really worth it.

What I love about the platform: no idea why, but the digital format is sometimes more attractive to open and do, that the book. Sometimes it is the opposite for me. Having a high quality digital tool in the toolbox is therefore very useful. I love some of the main functionalities, such as just clicking on icon and getting the right audio (no need to search for the right number of audio in a file in the computer). The corrected exercises are great, more comfortable than leafing through the key (but I found one mistake already). Oh and as it is a prepayed amount of time, I appreciate the website stops counting and goes to a "standby" mode, when you are not clicking on anything for a long time.

The workbook is well made, but of course a bit too "easy", I add some more difficulty and practice by writing by hand, speaking, expanding on the examples, etc. There are approximately 20 exercises per lesson, not bad. And you get to do everything three times. Your choice, whether you want to redo stuff right away, or you want to review the exercises in a few days and than again in a week (or whenever). That's a good idea.

There is also a database of grammar explanations in pdfs and also in powerpoints. Not sure how great that is, I haven't used it much yet. The powerpoint I tried felt painfully slow. But the database of "grammarbook pages" is a good thing, as a reference.

What I definitely dislike: total dependence on the internet connection could be an issue for many learners. The site could be a bit better designed. It looks old fashioned, the inbuilt zoom and similar functions are not that practical, etc.

What is totally missing: no clue why, but it looks like the publishers and their IT people have no clue about SRS. This would be so much better, if I could also use an SRS deck for the textbook, ideally with cloze deletion exercises from the book. Why is this not a part of the package?

And one more note: Yeah, it is online and I type stuff. But as usual, I find it a bit too easy going. So, I write a lot of stuff by hand into my notebook (no orgaanized thing, it is just a nice place to handwrite), I rewrite things with a mistake several times (or just stuff I know will be tricky to remember, or might interfere with Spanish), I say almost everything out loud, preferably several times.
15 x

Cavesa
Black Belt - 4th Dan
Posts: 4960
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:46 am
Languages: Czech (N), French (C2) English (C1), Italian (C1), Spanish, German (C1)
x 17566

Re: Carpe Coffeam

Postby Cavesa » Mon Jul 04, 2022 8:36 pm

Today, one of my patients was italophone. It was great. I understand near perfectly almost anything people throw at me in Italian, this time I understood well too. My speaking leaves to be desired though. I got the job done, but I am so much worse in Italian than in French (so I sometimes in times of need switch to French even to a primarily italophone person, a bit ashamed). But I need to share this absolutely wonderful bit from this morning: The patient really started his story of the current illness with this: "Stamattina mi son svegliato" :-D Fortunately, he didn't find an invader, just some palpitations and vertigo. :-D (for those who don't know: look up lyrics to Bella Ciao.)
9 x

Cavesa
Black Belt - 4th Dan
Posts: 4960
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:46 am
Languages: Czech (N), French (C2) English (C1), Italian (C1), Spanish, German (C1)
x 17566

Re: Carpe Coffeam

Postby Cavesa » Wed Jul 13, 2022 11:56 am

Some news:

Lots of work. I love it, but it is a bit draining me. Even more, as I've spent my free days since relocating here mostly moving boxes, things, books, etc (this is the second appartment and I hope the last one for at least half a year), or dealing with a challenging family situation (nope, my hopes of things calming down are never becoming true). Fortunately, my introverted fiancé understands, that even I (mostly an extrovert, or perhaps in the middle) sometimes need a bit of time, during which I can just not speak to anybody, not respond to anybody, not do anything. :-D

A very relaxing thing I have too little time for: my Italian learning. I really love this relaxing and comfortable language. Such a difference, compared to German (which is still rotting in my brain, to my great regret). But right now, I've spent like 50 minutes doing coursebook exercises in my Nuovissimo Progetto and I feel so refreshed! Btw "relearning" the basics is such an interesting thing. The stuff is easy, but I am really going for 100% precision and mastery of stuff, that's where the value is. And I get a lot of related memories just appearing. A body parts exercise? The rather new "Ciao ciao" song starts playing in my head. Person descriptions? Mozart's Despina singing inside the brain :-D

I really need to revive the twitter account for Super Challenge btw. Not much time for reading, but I've seen the whole 3rd season of Quién mató a Sara in Spanish, and I am watching Westworld in Italian, the new season (I like the Italian dubbing the best).
14 x

Cavesa
Black Belt - 4th Dan
Posts: 4960
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:46 am
Languages: Czech (N), French (C2) English (C1), Italian (C1), Spanish, German (C1)
x 17566

Re: Carpe Coffeam

Postby Cavesa » Sat Jul 16, 2022 6:27 pm

You may laugh, but I am only in unit 2 of my nuovissimo progetto italiano. On my defense, I am really overdoing it. Repeating after audio, writing down everything (even more times), I really want this relearning to count, so that I can just never do it again :-D . But to have more fun with Italian, I keep watching Westworld, even though it means a week delay behind the original English version :-D I really like the tv show. I should follow up with some original show or movie again. Oh, and my Italiam cojugation on Linguno: silver penguin with one star, 92% skill in the A1-1 set

I wish I had time to read, got some epubs with some of the World of Warcraft books in German for Readlang. If this doesn't work to get me back to German, I don't know what will :-D

But it is hard. most days, I work 9-14 hours, then I get some sleep (lower quality, if I have to sleep during the day in the current heat), then do a bit of the necessary stuff (you know, like showering, or eating, or washing clothes). The rest is mostly couple time (watching Harry Potter lately, when there is no force for anything else), and very little bits of actual free time. So, my glorious study plans are suffering.

And a tiny victory in couple: my fiancé is finally learning French more seriously. Not just with the Progressives (he started and likes Phonetique, as he find the French pronunciation challenging and this book with audio really tackles it well. and it introduces some vocab and grammar in a non threatening way :-D), but he's started with tv series with French audio and English subtitles :-) He watches the same favourite shows over and over again anyways, he knows them really well and he enjoys them while for example cooking, so it is time he would spend watching the shows anyways (right now Friends). So, perhaps it might work even this early, as he knows the shows well and they could also be motivating. Hmm, is it a dream of have I just heard him laugh? Let's hope Friends and the Big Bang Theory in French will do some magic :-D

Oh, and I've bought a wedding dress!!! I used my precious free time well, it was much faster than I had hoped, a tiny miracle from the heavens. I am so happy with it! It is very European (I was a bit scared by the highy shiny mermaids and princesses, when watching inspirational shows like "say yes to the dress" from the US or UK. But they are fun :-D), it is a modern and clean design, no kitsch, but the cut is also a bit retro and very feminine :-D So, totally me :-) (or at least what I try to look like in my usual style :-D ) Preparations are continuing.
16 x

Cavesa
Black Belt - 4th Dan
Posts: 4960
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:46 am
Languages: Czech (N), French (C2) English (C1), Italian (C1), Spanish, German (C1)
x 17566

Re: Carpe Coffeam

Postby Cavesa » Tue Jul 19, 2022 10:54 am

This chain of three nights at work was horrible. With some situations, that made me want to give up on this job. I finally have what I've wanted, but this was too harsh. And I paid for the three nights with a migraine. Not a conductive learning environment. But I want to persevere.

But I want to share how happy I am about my fiancé finally learning French much more intensively.
His tools:
-Phonetique Progressive. It is very good and it works well for his worries about learning the French pronunciaiton.
-Friends in French. He knows the series very well. For now, he understands very little, he starts this very early. But it is motivational, and it doesn't hurt.
-Frostpunk, a building strategy game. It is very refreshing in the heat :-D And as many such games, it has tons of vocabulary, it has shorter dialogues, it doesn't require understanding immediately, you have time to use a dictionary. And he's noticed he already remembers quite a lot of the words used all the time!

Btw I find my Spanish is really totaly horrible now. I've lost too much. I understand near perfectly, but my speaking is in ruins. I consider relearning the same way I am learning Italian now. Anyone knows of a good monolingual cefr labeled textbook series that has a very solid digital version, please? Not just overpriced scans of the books, but also audios inside the e-course, corrected exercises etc? I am a bit torn. Metodo is nice but the e-version looks not too convincing. Aula might have a better digital version (based on the description) but it goes only up to B2, which is not that great (I want something going up to C1 without switching series). Any ideas welcome.
5 x

BeaP
Green Belt
Posts: 405
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2021 8:18 am
Languages: Hungarian (N), English, German, Spanish, French, Italian
x 1990

Re: Carpe Coffeam

Postby BeaP » Tue Jul 19, 2022 11:44 am

Cavesa wrote:Anyone knows of a good monolingual cefr labeled textbook series that has a very solid digital version, please?

Difusión is the only publishing house that has a good online platform (https://campus.difusion.com) The site has changed recently, but so far with a premium subscription one was allowed to use the digital version of every coursebook they publish. I think this option had the best cost-benefit ratio. Also, you could buy textbooks for a bit higher price that also granted you this access for a year. I have two non-Difusión coursebooks, Nuevo Prisma and Vitamina.

Difusión coursebooks in general:
- Suited for classroom use: lots of different materials, videos, audios, topics to discuss (a lot of Cervantes institutes use them exclusively). This might be a disadvantage if you want something simple. They aren't really chaotic, but they come with a lot of different materials in different formats.
- Only authentic materials, very natural-sounding dialogues
- Interesting and up-to-date topics (From the content point of view they're much better than anything I've seen.)

Gente hoy: has a very good grammar summary at the end, useful workbook
Aula: I liked this one the least, I think it's too difficult and the workbook part is not so good
Bitácora: this is the most interesting, has very little grammar instruction outside of situations, strong focus on vocabulary and communication
C de C1: is a good follow-up after any of these, follows the same principles as the other books (Difusión has a very strong teaching philosophy / methodology and character. Their books are very similar and the method is basically the same. They don't just hire writers, they're a group of writers always working and researching together with common concepts on how to teach).

Vitamina is also good, but last time I checked, there was no useful online platform. Prisma is a drudgery, and the online platform of Edinumen is horrible.

I have the premium subscription of Difusión until next spring, so if you have specific questions, I can look things up. Also, if you have any questions regarding the books I own, just ask.
6 x

Cavesa
Black Belt - 4th Dan
Posts: 4960
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:46 am
Languages: Czech (N), French (C2) English (C1), Italian (C1), Spanish, German (C1)
x 17566

Re: Carpe Coffeam

Postby Cavesa » Sat Jul 30, 2022 8:17 pm

BeaP wrote:
Cavesa wrote:Anyone knows of a good monolingual cefr labeled textbook series that has a very solid digital version, please?

Difusión is the only publishing house that has a good online platform (https://campus.difusion.com) The site has changed recently, but so far with a premium subscription one was allowed to use the digital version of every coursebook they publish. I think this option had the best cost-benefit ratio. Also, you could buy textbooks for a bit higher price that also granted you this access for a year. I have two non-Difusión coursebooks, Nuevo Prisma and Vitamina.


Ah, I hoped the Anaya-Edelsa platform would be good, as I like the Metodo coursebook and they also seem to have some new digital workbooks. Prisma always seemed weird to me, no matter the wonderful fact it has been the first coursebook series that I've ever seen try to target the C2 learners. Vitamina may be nice, but the books seem even thinner than most, is it just my impression? :-D


Difusión coursebooks in general:
- Suited for classroom use: lots of different materials, videos, audios, topics to discuss (a lot of Cervantes institutes use them exclusively). This might be a disadvantage if you want something simple. They aren't really chaotic, but they come with a lot of different materials in different formats.
- Only authentic materials, very natural-sounding dialogues
- Interesting and up-to-date topics (From the content point of view they're much better than anything I've seen.)

Classroom aimed, that doesn't bother me, I am used to such material in self teaching and in general consider this to be a problem only at the beginner level. But there are still better and worse organised materials (some coursebooks manage to confuse even teachers, from what I've observed).

Authentic is nice, even though not my primary problem. I have tons of totally authentic input, I am more after the structure, covering gaps, relearning stuff, and tons of exercises.

The topics should hopefully make me leave my comfort zone.


Gente hoy: has a very good grammar summary at the end, useful workbook
Aula: I liked this one the least, I think it's too difficult and the workbook part is not so good
Bitácora: this is the most interesting, has very little grammar instruction outside of situations, strong focus on vocabulary and communication
C de C1: is a good follow-up after any of these, follows the same principles as the other books (Difusión has a very strong teaching philosophy / methodology and character. Their books are very similar and the method is basically the same. They don't just hire writers, they're a group of writers always working and researching together with common concepts on how to teach).

Vitamina is also good, but last time I checked, there was no useful online platform. Prisma is a drudgery, and the online platform of Edinumen is horrible.

I have the premium subscription of Difusión until next spring, so if you have specific questions, I can look things up. Also, if you have any questions regarding the books I own, just ask.


An excellent overview, thank you. It looks like my primary tool, if I am to choose from Difusion, would be Gente Hoy and/or Bitácora. I am more attracted towards grammar, but perhaps I need the opposite. I have solid grammar books, so something hammering tons of vocab into my head might be great. And the C de C1 will hopefully work.

Nevertheless, I've just realized how near is November, so I need to focus on Italian right now, Spanish will come after that :-)
.............

As to the news: I am doing rather badly, when it comes to language learning, studying for work, or even handling everyday life. You might look for other reasons, but I strongly suspect the 213 official work hours in July to have something to do with it. With overtime, it will easily be 240, or more. Well, I got out of the last few days, as I got Covid and was found too ill to work (and I agreed). But I am getting better. It's no longer my whole body aching, now it's usually just one part at a time. Yay! And I can speak again! And I can drink and even eat! Yay! And I can even read without getting too tired!

August is a much more reasonable month on the schedule. So, 6WC is one of the goals! Italian!
................

A few tiny notes in the "adventures of the plurilingual doctor" category:

-we have a hispanophone neurologist. His French has a very heavy accent. My brain doesn't know which language it is supposed to work in with him. I often cannot understand, so I look even more as an idiot than I would otherwise look (yep, some mess ups are just that, no language related excuses), especially over phone. But the most funny part: I am not the only one. Sometimes I wonder how do the patients manage :-D So, I don't know what to do. I cannot see a polite way to tell him (others and better placed people tried), nor can I just ask him to use Spanish on me, to stop confusing me. Once, I had to transfer important info to another service in another hospital. It took me much longer than necessary because of his pronunciation while telling me the email :-( I'll probably just need to get used to his Francospanish or what can I call it.

-Sometimes it sucks to understand. I understand a little Ukrainian. Not really that much, sometimes it serves well. But not long ago, it was just enough to get offended. I had to explain to the patient's daughter (who was translating during the exam) that I am no де́вушка (girl), I'm a doctor. Well, that disrespectful woman (who kept using this term repeatedly many times during the exam, like "dad, look at the girl's hand" and "dad, what object is the girl showing you now") wasn't too lucky, I had already been annoyed by a british patient, who called a highly qualified nurse "the boy at the entrance", on the same day. Really??!! :-D Are these people for real?

-I get to use Italian or Spanish with patients quite often. I do not initiate it, the local language is French. But when they are clearly not comfortable and try to propose to me heavily accented English instead, I just save us the trouble and they usually seem to really appreciate it. The main catch: In both of these languages, I now have a huge gap between active and passive skills. Which means some problems. Including the difficulty to easily convince them (in one or two seconds by solid speaking) that they really can speak the language with me. Some have no problem, some struggle to trust me. All I want is just to get normal information from them (and efficiently) instead of some approximate nonsense that will make me look like a fool when presenting their case, and that may delay the correct diagnose for them.

-Oh, and I am seen as a sort of desperate back up for slavic languages speakers, not sure whether to be glad about it, not really,but it might be my fault, I am simply too used to use any means to communicate, after my Belgian experience. Fortunately, the Polish speaking old lady was actually more comfortable with German (to my relief!). And my approximate translation of a Serbian document would have made a better impression, had the Serbian colleagues actually put some worthwhile info in it and not just useless sauce. :-D The lack of info wasn't my fault! At least they had written it in Latin script.

If I had more free time, I'd look in the Radioclare's log for inspiration and learn a slavic language or two for job purposes. Either I can hide from this and not use even the useful bits of the intelligibility, or I should do it properly.
13 x

User avatar
PeterMollenburg
Black Belt - 3rd Dan
Posts: 3229
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2015 11:54 am
Location: Australia
Languages: English (N), French (B2-certified), Dutch (High A2?), Spanish (~A1), German (long-forgotten 99%), Norwegian (false starts in 2020 & 2021)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=18080
x 8029

Re: Carpe Coffeam

Postby PeterMollenburg » Sun Jul 31, 2022 12:05 am

Enjoying following your recent updates from Switzerland, Cavesa, especially following your very difficult and lengthy path to get to where you are. Very interesting and to be completely honest, I'm somewhat envious, but not in a negative way ;) I wish you the best in your adventures - languages (of course it's first), life, family, career!

Cavesa wrote:If I had more free time, I'd look in the Radioclare's log for inspiration and learn a slavic language or two for job purposes. Either I can hide from this and not use even the useful bits of the intelligibility, or I should do it properly.


Don't do it! Consider you're still settling in, you're still adjusting, you're improving your Italian and have Spanish and more German on the horizon. Do you really need to jump into a Slavic language as well? They'll be some time later (I think!). Just my two cents! ;) Good luck whatever you decide!
4 x

Cavesa
Black Belt - 4th Dan
Posts: 4960
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:46 am
Languages: Czech (N), French (C2) English (C1), Italian (C1), Spanish, German (C1)
x 17566

Re: Carpe Coffeam

Postby Cavesa » Tue Aug 02, 2022 3:34 pm

Of course I know you are right. But thanks for reminding me anyways. It was perhaps just a dream, to escape an overworked reality for a moment. But how on earth are you at nearly 8 hours of Norwegian in the 6WC, PM??!!! :-D How is that possible! Austrilans clearly get too much of a headstart due to the time zone difference, must be that -nods to self reassuringly-

What an exciting moment, the beginning of a 6WC! And I can participate, yay! Yesterday, I was at work, so I am starting today. Yes, I was at work with covid, and for 13 hours. Not ideal. I hated it, half my patients were in better health than me. But I feel better and better in spite of this. Or rather less and less badly. A few days ago, I had pain everywhere, and couldn't even read. Today, I can happily learn Italian in my bed. What a joy! But I also left for a few hours (with a mask, of course) today, because I had to run an errand. I get tired easily, especially from any physical activity :-( But I can speak again (I cannot sing yet), that's cool too.

As to the 6WC: 15 participants so far, that is a very nice number, I hope we manage to get through it together without losing half the team! PM is winning right away, alright. But I'd say Anyapop will kick all our asses in the end, she's just great every time! Not sure who is marianilsen, my brain doesn't connect to name to any log, I should probably pay more attention.

There are three Italian learners on the list! And no German this time.

My plan for the 6WC: Italian. I want to complete Nuovissimo Progetto 1, that's the priority. And perhaps some more stuff. I like Linguno and find the conjugation drills very relaxing and helpful. The rest remains to be chosen.
6 x


Return to “Language logs”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: iguanamon and 2 guests