Carpe Coffeam

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Cavesa
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Re: Carpe Coffeam

Postby Cavesa » Wed Oct 26, 2022 12:10 pm

I am stuck in the unit 9 of the NPI1 workbook and I am beginning to hate it. Yep, it is irrational. But this is the first unit, in which I have gotten 0 right answers in an exercise. Actually in two so far.

It is partially just because it is a lot of stuff together and really my mistake. But not always. Like this: Io xxxxx presto per andare a correre. The only correct answer for the software is ho voluto svegliarmi. But there is no indication that we are talking about the past! I thought it was a very immediate project for the near future and a new habit, so I wrote voglio svegliarmi, it is really annoying. And it happens quite a lot in this unit.

I am also rewriting stuff less, to save some time, because I am getting slightly burnt out of the workbook. It is very good for my Italian, it is just very slow for me and so on.

A question I don't have an answer for: in order to cover the stuff I need, should I continue faster with the coursebooks, or should I always complete also the workbook before moving on, even if it really slows me down? I might easy get half a book of a difference, just like what happened with my German coursebook :-D

No clue yet. And I really want the 6wc to begin soon. With my Italian actively A2/B1, I definitely qualify.
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Cavesa
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Re: Carpe Coffeam

Postby Cavesa » Fri Oct 28, 2022 1:30 pm

tiny Italian updates:
I saw the movie The School of Good and Evil in Italian a few days ago. 2h20 minutes, in Italian. It was nice. Not that great, but nice and fun. It counts for the SC

I've just finished the workbook unit 9!!!!! Finally!!!! I got so stuck in it, it made me procrastinate :-D Finally done. Now I do the test units before the two long ones, to move forward a bit faster on the progress bars.

Two rants: Not sure what browser is the i-d-e-e platform made for. But as it is now in my firefox, I cannot do the last exercises of some units, because they are simply too far to the right on the screen, basically outside of it and without any way to access them. I can scroll up and down, I cannot scross sideway to reach them. It's a bit annoying. And another thing: the usual complaint. Maintenance and bugs always come at the worst moment. It was annoying yesterday. Well, did some grammar workbook units instead. Not enough, but some.

Onwards to the next units!!!
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Re: Carpe Coffeam

Postby Iversen » Fri Oct 28, 2022 4:28 pm

Can't you diminish the size of the writing on the screen? And if that doesn't work: can't you see the source code for the menu part and find the missing links there - and then access them by entering them directly into your browser?

Sorry if these proposals are irrelevant, but I don't know the i-d-e-e platform. I just know that I have had to do things like that to get to some pages on the internet because I have an outdated Firefox on an even more outdated Windows 7 on a PC that may have skipped some important update along the way.. A bigger screen with more pixels across might also solve the problem.
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Cavesa
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Re: Carpe Coffeam

Postby Cavesa » Wed Nov 02, 2022 9:49 pm

Iversen wrote:Can't you diminish the size of the writing on the screen? And if that doesn't work: can't you see the source code for the menu part and find the missing links there - and then access them by entering them directly into your browser?

Sorry if these proposals are irrelevant, but I don't know the i-d-e-e platform. I just know that I have had to do things like that to get to some pages on the internet because I have an outdated Firefox on an even more outdated Windows 7 on a PC that may have skipped some important update along the way.. A bigger screen with more pixels across might also solve the problem.


Those are very good proposals, and I've already tried. Trying to make the size smaller or bigger makes the whole thing bigger or smaller, but it doesn't uncover the "hidden" parts. I haven't tried the source code yet, I might, it's a good idea.

But imagine getting a huuuuge screen for a language learning platform :-D :-D :-D That would be the ultimate YKYAALN home upgrade :-D

....................

An update: Yes, I am really trying to do this very foolish thing. Two languages at once with my work schedule. I am risking losing some of the investments (such as lots of money for the German classes, and lots of time I should be putting in work related studying or finally going to the gym). But I can gain so much, if I succeed. I really need to widen my job hunting possibilities, it is really stressing me out. I got another no today (too many candidates as the reason, and I simply wasn't chosen. There might be some last minute opening, but I cannot count on that, not with my category of a work permit). And I really need to cross this from the list.

Any other language goals will be mostly for fun after this, with any "serious" profits being just a side effect. But I simply need an Italian and German C1 asap.

a few things in my favour (not gonna list the tons of obvious obstacles):
-a very good work schedule this month, it wouldn't be even considerable without this. I asked for this and got it.
-I am motivated, and I have proven repeatedly that I can do such stuff under pressure (heh, I finished medschool after all, and the rather recent German B2 sprint was a good achievement too). But it always comes at a cost, as you can surely imagine.
-I am not an average learner, I am more experienced, which makes the normal advice irrelevant.
-THE 6 WEEK CHALLENGE!!!!!!!!! YAY!!!!!

I need to update my progress bar garden btw. Too slowly progressing the Italian part. But I haven't put in a lot of German progress that I have made. And I will split some things into smaller units. Such as the Erkundungen book. It has 8 huuuuuge units. I will simply put A, B, and C parts as separate units, to be more motivated (because I have completed some of them, just not all in any unit and the empty progress bar is sad). And the amount of stuff in each would actually be a separate unit in most coursebooks :-D

The plan for the 6wc is the same as before, the same resources, just faster, more efficiently.
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Cavesa
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Re: Carpe Coffeam

Postby Cavesa » Sat Nov 12, 2022 1:46 pm

I have just a few days left to decide about the Italian exam. Not sure, given my huge delay in studies. Let's see after today.

I've met an unexpected enemy. A holiday. I am less productive instead of more productive. I have the time. But I've spent it doing stuff with my husband and playing on computer. Don't get me wrong, it's awesome. But not good for my learning.

It gave me the first lesson repeat in my German classes, because I simply was too undisciplined to do half the homework for the first time.
And my Italian is going much slower than needed. The only thing I've managed to do lately is progress in the grammatica workbook 1. It is very good, but I was supposed to be in the middle of the second one by now (which looks amazing. I've leafed through it, and it is full of interesting content, definitely not beginnerish topics, and stuff I am sure to use)

Btw a funny unrelated note: we were talking with colleagues and they noted how weird it was, I hadn't caught the Belgian accent in French at all :-D :-D :-D I am lucky to not have gotten a Turkish or Arabic one. (btw do native Arabic speakers of various dialects get different foreign accent in their French or other non native language? No clue). My French is overall stagnating. I could do with more out of work speaking opportunities.

Oh and what to do with 6WC and Italian: How about a 3DP, inspired by Teango? So, in the next three days, I plan to do units 0-4 of the Nuovissimo Progetto 2 coursebook as the main project.
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Cavesa
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Re: Carpe Coffeam

Postby Cavesa » Sat Nov 12, 2022 2:35 pm

And on another note about the languages in my region: I already mentioned how useful would Portuguese be to me. There are so many natives! Curiously, I find Portuguese just as distant from my romance languages as Romanian, I really struggle understanding anything at all. But I could understand ridiculously well a Brazilian show on netflix (at least the trailer, the show itself is still on the "to watch" list). Portuguese sounds great, too bad I have no time for it. But it amuses me a lot how my brain finds it so foreign, even though it is supposed to be just like Spanish. Perhaps it is another sign of my Spanish becoming just a pile of ashes and rust?

And one note on my German: I am speaking much better than a few months ago. Still much worse than in my really strong languages. But I am now using my already knowns stuff more comfortably. My big weakness: vocabulary. I really need to study it much more. But the regular speaking and a well designed curriculum (just the fact I can really prepare) are working fine. Grammar is falling well into place.

I really think that A2 is the hardest level in German, while A1 might be the hardest one in French. But if you learn your A2 German grammar right, it will payoff ridicoulously well.

A funny thing: I've completed only A1, A2, and B2 resources in German so far :-D I have a B1 gap. I completed most of the B2 Speexx, and the A2 one. Themen Aktuell up to A2. DaF kompakt: B1 part has barely been touched. Ekundungnen B2 in progress.

Well, B1 resources are to be revisited, the gap will be completed. After the Italian exam (should I really try it).
................
As I often add to the forum experiences of people close to me: My husband's French. The strategy is working!

He is studying at the hyperexpensive school (the price is a motivation too), and progressing well, he should finish the 1 soon.

He has failed two units so far, always with the same teacher (who seems to be much more demanding than the rest, who are overall at the same level and have the same style), the rest of his classes were passes. He is improving, with both the Speexx platform and also some work on the Progressives (extremely helpful, but he could do them more). They don't have a coursebook, which is a shame, they have a Moodle and I don't like that. It is the same kind of stuff as in Speexx, not really a well structured book that can cover your gaps and explain stuff. The German classes have better support.

He is also including vocab from computer games already, right now he's playing a strategy game in French, and already using the vocab in class :-) Yesterday, we were reading and discussing the beer can together (some very good examples of the prepositions he's learning now). :-D

Unfortunately, there are many beginners, so he gets classes of even 3 or 4 people, which is a lot. Especially for the money. Btw I am still shocked, that so many people pay such money (basically a rent of a small appartement) and drop out long before achieving B2 or even B1. I also cannot understand that most also seem to take just one unit per week, when 2 are possible. And nope, I don't really get the "too busy" excuse anymore, I work 200 hours a month and people signing up are being told what to expect.

He should soon finish the A1 and I'll be so proud!

And I am now considering A1 to be the key and the hardest level of French learning in some ways. As I can compare now, and I see him, a true beginner, I really appreciate how much there is to learn at first, and how less steep the curve will be later. But only if the learner doesn't get lazy and rush through A1. That's one of the risks of the highly popular beginner tools, such as Duolingo. People will cross everything out of the A1 or even A2 list, having barely scratched the surface, with a too week foundation to continue. Such tools (and not only Duo, it is just one example out of many, even many classes are guilty these days!) set people up for failure and a shock at the intermediate level.
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garyb
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Re: Carpe Coffeam

Postby garyb » Sat Nov 12, 2022 2:50 pm

Very interesting to read your thoughts on French and German since I'm going through A1/A2 German now. It does seem like a language where spending the time on building a solid foundation will pay off in the future, so that's influenced my learning approach so far of working through beginner resources slowly and methodically rather than rushing onto more advanced ones.

I learnt the basics of French at high school, so it's hard to even remember what the beginner stages were like. It did take us a long time to learn the very basics, but that's just normal for high school. I do wish they had at least tried to teach us the pronunciation properly, because that was my biggest weakness when I picked it up again as an adult, while grammar and vocabulary were mostly just a case of revision and filling in gaps and I didn't have much trouble because I had already done a lot of the hard work like endless verb conjugation exercises at school.
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Cavesa
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Re: Carpe Coffeam

Postby Cavesa » Sat Nov 12, 2022 3:21 pm

garyb wrote:Very interesting to read your thoughts on French and German since I'm going through A1/A2 German now. It does seem like a language where spending the time on building a solid foundation will pay off in the future, so that's influenced my learning approach so far of working through beginner resources slowly and methodically rather than rushing onto more advanced ones.


Yes, it really works like that. Of course, one shouldn't overdo it and get stuck at the low levels forever (that's what many school classes are actually doing), but anything well learnt now will be easier to build upon later.


I learnt the basics of French at high school, so it's hard to even remember what the beginner stages were like. It did take us a long time to learn the very basics, but that's just normal for high school. I do wish they had at least tried to teach us the pronunciation properly, because that was my biggest weakness when I picked it up again as an adult, while grammar and vocabulary were mostly just a case of revision and filling in gaps and I didn't have much trouble because I had already done a lot of the hard work like endless verb conjugation exercises at school.


Yeah, it's normal. The problem of schools is teaching slowly but badly. I really wish most of the teachers I had the bad luck to encounter had just stuck to a coursebook. Not just let us buy it and then give us a chaos of random worksheets instead. Nope, a clear curriculum, clear self study and in class study activities, clear expectations. Not "creative" running in circles with us and creating gaps.

Yes, pronunciation deserves proper care and rarely gets it. But I've already written many times about classes being the surest way to screw up your pronunciation and learn mistakes of various kinds :-D
............
Another totally unrelated note or a rant(a mess today, I know): anyone still on Duolingo? I see posts about it from time to time. It looks like it has fallen nto an even worse hole than before. It is even more aggressive about making people pay for in game currency, even those paying for Premium Duolingo (which I find very unethical. Make users pay for a service, sure, but not twice!), it is punishing for mistakes (which is the opposite of what learning should be about! Making you buy lives because you make mistakes while learning, that is a disastrous mindset!) There seem to be some new gamification (=business) elements, so many that people on reddit call the 2016 Duolingo "not gamified at all" :-D

Why I still care: Because I care about the language learning as a part of our society and hate how Duo has become the synonymum for "self teaching" or "independent study". It is setting people up for failure more than ever before, it is damaging our reputation (you don't go to class=you surely just play with duolingo and suck at the language), and it is making people lose time they could invest in language learning, something I believe to improve lives all the time. It is twisting even research (academic or marketing), as almost every survey assumes you use Duolingo and mistakes it for a real learning tool.

I wish there was a way to counter their marketing. Even on the Duo subreddit (something I visit like 3 times a year out of curiosity and nostalgia), people are uselessly discussing how to boycott this or that feature (randomly given by A/B testing), instead of just understanding the only way forward is to leave.

Duo used to be the symbol of the promise of the new digital technologies for learners. It built its marketing, reputation, and wealth on being free to use (with ads) and on giving quite good beginning courses made by volunteers, that you were supposed to complete and then move on. It has become this shit, that stains the language learning world and takes any attention away from so many more deserving tools or ideas. :-(
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LupCenușiu
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Re: Carpe Coffeam

Postby LupCenușiu » Sat Nov 12, 2022 3:46 pm

Cavesa wrote: Curiously, I find Portuguese just as distant from my romance languages as Romanian, I really struggle understanding anything at all.

Funny enough, for Romanians Portuguese is the least comprehensible main Romance language, all things equal. Italian is very easy, just down the street, Spanish second to Italian, around the corner, French a third, a couple of blocks away...and then is Portuguese, in another part of the city.
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Re: Carpe Coffeam

Postby garyb » Sat Nov 12, 2022 7:03 pm

Ah, I had positive feelings about the latest Duo changes! More linear structure with fewer unnecessary choices, much more useful personalised practise feature, and units based around doing things in the language rather than themes. I'm getting a lot of value out of it.

But I only ever use the desktop web version, never the mobile app; I gave up on the app a long time ago because of the lives and other gamification, the more intrusive advertising, and problems with using the keyboard input rather than the word bank (I think it didn't work at first, then it worked but typing on a phone will always be slower and more painful than on a keyboard). I find it strange that it's so famous as an app despite the user experience being awful and far better on the desktop version, and it's a shame since a better app would actually be really handy for studying on the move.

My case is probably quite unusual though: an experienced learner using it to complement other courses, and someone with a general preference for doing things on a computer rather than a phone when possible. I fully agree with your criticisms based on how it's usually used, as a main/only resource on mobile by inexperienced learners.
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