Dan Lernt Deutsch, Take Three! (YouTube Video Practice)

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Khayyam
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Re: Dan Lernt Deutsch, Take Three! (YouTube Video Practice)

Postby Khayyam » Mon Mar 21, 2022 3:17 am

Okay, here goes with a very rambly, brainstormy post. I promise myself no revising this time (sorry readers, but I've got to break the habit of nitpicking my own journaling when the point is just to get the thoughts out); just going to spit out German-learning-relevant thoughts as they come.

Current song and mood: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgHMkw4PdWY

In case you don't feel like clicking the link, it's a violent metal song called "In Hell They Speak German". (Or literally translated, "In Hell One Speaks German". I'm not really happy with either of these English translations. The literal translation isn't right because it sounds very formal, and the song is too mean and bestial for formality. But if I use "they," then I create a distance between the vocalist and hell to which he would surely object. [And actually, "one" has the same problem.] What he means to convey, and what the German gets across perfectly well, is something along the lines of "We speak German here in hell, thank you very much"--eh, whatever. I did say I was going to ramble!)

Total non sequitur: the German word for passion, Leidenschaft, literally translates to something like "enterprise/undertaking of suffering." (I'm sure I'm not teaching anything to anyone who knows any German, but maybe there's somebody who knows none even though they know other languages, and maybe they'll find these factoids interesting.) The clear implication is that if you're not willing to suffer for what you claim to love, then your love is a lie. If I judge myself by this standard, can I really claim to love German? GRAMMAR! GRAMMAR, YOU BIG IDIOT! What do I have to do to make myself open that stupid workbook when I could be doing the fun parts instead? I think the main thing is keeping in mind a very clear image of *just* how cool it will be when I can converse. Imagine flirting with a German woman and making her think, "Holy shit, he's good!" rather than just "Aw, how adorable that he's at least trying." I am *so* sick of having to say, "I can understand almost everything you say in German as long as you speak slowly, but I'll have to respond mostly in English."

And as long as I'm on the subject of motivating myself to do the tough stuff: I need to get better at listening to German as it's spoken by natives to each other in real life, and that means focusing hard on German-language podcasts that feature native speakers talking to each other without giving the slightest consideration to learners. It's really hard for me to choose to listen to conversations rather than solo speakers because people tend to speak faster in conversation (especially when there's good chemistry or strong disagreement), and because solo presentations generally have more meat to them. (Books are of course meatier than podcasts as a general rule, and solo podcasting requires a better organization of thought than engaging in dialogue does.) How to motivate myself to listen to dialogues, then? A way I tried today was to imagine that I was an eavesdropping fly. It's childish, but if I imagine I'm listening in on a conversation I've no right to be privy to, then my concentration improves quite a lot. (My, I must have such a fine character!) And in some sense, the eavesdropping thing is true; I'm not the target audience at all since I'm not a native German speaker.
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Khayyam
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Re: Dan Lernt Deutsch, Take Three! (YouTube Video Practice)

Postby Khayyam » Fri Mar 25, 2022 11:03 pm

Called in sick today with a minor cold and have spent almost the whole day listening to German podcasts or reading in German. Still being bad-bad-bad by not dedicating any time to grammar study, but also being good-good-good by studying the new vocab in each chapter before moving onto the next even the story is tremendously exciting and I don't want to stop.

It's a really nice day, and I found a little woodsy spot a stone's throw from my house to sit and read in the sunshine. I concentrated better there than I generally do inside even though inside is about as silent and peaceful as I could want. Couldn't have hurt that I took no Internet- or text-message-capable devices with me and really had nothing to do except listen to music on my mp3 player and read my book. I believe I'll make a consistent practice of going to that spot when it's time to read with total focus.

I had hard rock playing as I read and I don't think it hurt my concentration at all. If anything, it might've improved it--the energy of the music caused me to read faster, and for me, faster generally = better comprehension.
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Das Leben ist ein langer, roter Fluss
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Khayyam
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Re: Dan Lernt Deutsch, Take Three! (YouTube Video Practice)

Postby Khayyam » Mon Mar 28, 2022 5:38 pm

TLDR: Somewhat self-indulgent, probably-not-interesting-to-anybody-else hemming and hawing about whether to quit the gym to put more focus on German.

It's been over two months since I've been to the gym, and the main reason is that my German obsession has grown to the point that getting more German time in is more important to me than getting the kind of workout I can only get at the gym. If my main reason for working out is to prime my brain for German (have I really become that extreme?--yes, I think so), then it makes perfect sense to chuck the gym and do home workouts, which is what I've been doing.

When I was going to the gym, I did quite a lot of workouts where I'd lift and read in German between sets. When I was done, I'd often sit in the hot tub and continue reading for longer than I'd spent working out. That was a wise use of time considering my goals back then, but if mastering German means more to me than getting swole (bro), then it's best that I quit the gym and stick to home workouts. I'm quite proud that I toughed it out with the weird stares and stupid comments/questions for as long as I did, but now let's just get the dudebros out of the picture entirely and make it all about the German, yeah? ("Why are you reading in the hot tub?" "Because...because I brought my book? Because unlike you, I'm a smart monkey who recognizes the brevity of life and is busily self-actualizing? WTF do you want me to say, dawwwwg?"--I didn't actually say that.)

Call the gym and cancel tomorrow? It's tempting. I miss swimming, though, and swimming improves my sleep and reduces my back pain, which of course improves my German study. And if I get my swimming to the level I'd like, then I'll be able to swim laps on autopilot for half an hour or longer while I listen to German. That might be even more conducive to attentive listening than taking walks late at night in quiet areas is for me. And I can swim any time, not just at night. If I get the swimming down, maybe I'll be less tempted to stay up and miss sleep to take the walks. --But am I not just sick of the gym in general? Ehh, this is a tough one.

I think I'll try a lot of different soothing exercises that I can do at home--yoga, tai chi, low-intensity dancing, whatever--and see how well I can focus on the German once I've gotten into a flow, and how well they do compared to swimming for sleep and pain relief. If I find one that's as good as swimming or better, then it's goodbye gym.

On another note: my motivation to learn German has never been higher than it is right now, which is saying quite a lot considering what an annoying fanboy I've been from the very beginning. I listen to German podcasts so much that I'm considering deleting all my English-language podcasts except Sam Harris's *Making Sense* (which is indispensable for coping with the world's insanity). I often choose to learn German rather than spend time with women even when I find them attractive and know they're interested in me. I know that sounds like bragging, but I'm only trying to express my level of dedication/insanity, and I can't do that without mentioning this fact. (If an intellectual is a person who has discovered one thing more interesting than sex, as Aldous Huxley said, then I guess I qualify.) When's the last time I read a whole book in English? Have I done so even once since I started with German? Holy cow, I don't think I have.

What's going on with me? I think what it boils down to is that the more I spend time wearing lenses other than the ones that were put on me by the accident of my being born where and when I was, the less time I want to spend wearing the drearily familiar default ones. How many different perspectives can I adopt in the time I have left on Earth? How many haunting little glimpses can I get of versions of me that might’ve been? That’s the main thing driving me.

But of course, it’s not merely a general infatuation with other languages. I took four years of French and I hear Spanish all the time, and those languages have never stirred my blood. What’s different about German? I’ll probably never have a real answer. Und das ist mir fast egal. Ich bekomme Gänsehaut und mein Blut brennt, und das reicht immer, oder?
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Das Leben ist ein langer, roter Fluss
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Khayyam
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Re: Dan Lernt Deutsch, Take Three! (YouTube Video Practice)

Postby Khayyam » Mon Mar 28, 2022 10:30 pm

Been listening to a German-speaking YouTuber and spiritual guide (for lack of a better term) named Lydia Zauberhaut--"Lydia Magicskin." She says she had a skin condition which doctors were unable to treat, but which she was able to cure herself by learning to manage her stress. She continued her inner journey (again, for lack of a better term) and now helps others with their issues.

She believes in reincarnation and other ideas of which I'm deeply skeptical, but she's clearly intelligent, has a good vocabulary, and speaks very clearly, so I guess I'm along for this ride for the foreseeable future. Well, it's more than just those things, of course--it's really that I feel her presence and intentions are good for me in a hundred ways other than just helping me to learn German. Yeah, I learn lots of German when I listen to Berlin rap or the German news, but that stuff sure doesn't do any favors for my blood pressure or tight muscles. I'm thinking I'll delete everybody except her and a few other positive/wise/uplifting people from my podcast list and just listen to them for the next...few months? Not sure how long. Might as well be a good long while since I've spent so much time indulging the dark side.

Anyway, I haven't been listening to Lydia for that long, but I think I can safely say I've never encountered anyone else in real life or online who's more happily confident in her offbeat-ness than she is. And I need that kind of influence, just as much as I need to learn German. Here's a video of her introducing her show, if you're interested. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cG7NfZiY5ps
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Das Leben ist ein langer, roter Fluss
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Khayyam
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Re: Dan Lernt Deutsch, Take Three! (YouTube Video Practice)

Postby Khayyam » Mon Mar 28, 2022 11:37 pm

German word for a miser that I just learned: Geizkragen, or "stingy-collar." Brings to mind someone whose shirt collars are all permanently yellow and who will never replace his shirts until they actually fall apart. <3
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Khayyam
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Re: Dan Lernt Deutsch, Take Three! (YouTube Video Practice)

Postby Khayyam » Thu Mar 31, 2022 2:46 am

I'm so glad I discovered Lydia Zauberhaut. Can't believe her videos have so few views. I intend to go quite far out of my way to promote her.

Tonight's exercise, which I'm enjoying so much that my German reading has gone out the window: I listen to a sentence or phrase of Lydia's at a time, pause the podcast, and verbally translate whatever she just said into English. This is incredibly fun, and keeps my mind engaged in a way that I find hard to achieve even when I'm listening to something in English. If it's in English, then a part of me can't help but think, "Yeah yeah, native language--I got this"--which often means I'm not fully attentive.

I need more calm, wise, helpful, non-dopamine-stimulating material like this. Next German book I read will probably be by a Buddhist monk or something along those lines.
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Lawyer&Mom
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Re: Dan Lernt Deutsch, Take Three! (YouTube Video Practice)

Postby Lawyer&Mom » Fri Apr 01, 2022 1:08 am

You don’t have to get grammar from workbooks. It isn’t actually required. You seem to be picking up plenty of grammar from all your reading and listening. (I did the full two years of university grammar study and my German grammar wasn’t any better than yours.) Mass input is a perfectly valid method and it obviously suits you.

I agree with the previous poster, your German doesn’t sound particularly German (for someone at your strong level) and I think prosody is the issue. You aren’t emphasizing the words and the parts of words that a German would emphasize. I think you need to listen to people having conversations. You won’t hear as much prosody in audio books or people monologuing on a podcast.

I wouldn’t worry too much about your accent. You are an American, nothing wrong with sounding lightly American. It’s not interfering with your speech.

Keep up the good work, you have really accomplished a lot! Very impressive.
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Khayyam
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Re: Dan Lernt Deutsch, Take Three! (YouTube Video Practice)

Postby Khayyam » Sat Apr 02, 2022 3:39 am

Lawyer&Mom wrote:You don’t have to get grammar from workbooks. It isn’t actually required. You seem to be picking up plenty of grammar from all your reading and listening. (I did the full two years of university grammar study and my German grammar wasn’t any better than yours.) Mass input is a perfectly valid method and it obviously suits you.

I agree with the previous poster, your German doesn’t sound particularly German (for someone at your strong level) and I think prosody is the issue. You aren’t emphasizing the words and the parts of words that a German would emphasize. I think you need to listen to people having conversations. You won’t hear as much prosody in audio books or people monologuing on a podcast.

I wouldn’t worry too much about your accent. You are an American, nothing wrong with sounding lightly American. It’s not interfering with your speech.

Keep up the good work, you have really accomplished a lot! Very impressive.


Thank you so much! That's the most encouraging thing anyone's said to me so far.

The thing that frustrates me the most about studying grammar is that I already diligently worked through most of *Complete German Grammar*, probably losing two years of my life in the process, and I feel like it hardly made any difference at all to my ability to speak/write and not sound like a ganz und gar Dummkopf (I know that was wrong). I'm really hoping I'll eventually absorb the genders from reading the same way I've absorbed vocab.

Why do you say that I won't hear as much prosody in audiobooks or podcast monologues? I'm essentially doing monologues myself when I make these videos, so wouldn't emulating the prosody of monologue-ers be a good thing?

I'm SO going to tell my Austrian friend who always gets on my case about grammar that a lawyer on the language learners' forum gave me authorization to never study grammar again. :lol:
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Re: Dan Lernt Deutsch, Take Three! (YouTube Video Practice)

Postby Khayyam » Sat Apr 02, 2022 5:26 am

Just walked for about half an hour while listening to Lydia (well, half listened, half brainstormed--BAD!--PAY ATTENTION!) and I'm going to take a minute to journal before pounding some coffee and meandering the darkest places in my city for hours (bad again, because I'm supposed to be fixing my insomnia, but YOLO). I'll be listening to German for most or all of the walk, of course. Mostly Lydia, a little music.

I like Lydia so much that I've decided to do something I've never done for a podcaster before: never listen to her except when I'm confident I've removed all distractions. I won't devalue her courage or wisdom by trying to absorb them while I'm doing the dishes or walking along a busy street. So far, walking slowly in very quiet areas at night and imagining she's walking alongside me is my favorite way to listen to her, but I think it might be even better to sit at a campfire by myself and imagine her as my invisible companion.

I don't know exactly where the line for TMI in a language-learning journal should be, but I think people might find this interesting, so: one thing that's motivating me to listen to her in this single-minded way is that so many of my girlfriends have told me I'm a bad listener, and this seems like a way to improve. Not just to listen to any old thing, but to listen to a woman speaking in a heart-to-heart way. *And* in a foreign language. If I can learn to concentrate well enough to absorb everything she says, and then turn that same ability to English...

Reading progress: almost done with the third book in a fat fantasy trilogy. Handling every chapter with the proper discipline, always processing the new vocab in the way I've mandated for myself before moving on. Not quite getting through a whole chapter a day, but at least I'm doing the job well and thoroughly. Vocab has obviously improved along with my discipline; it happens fairly often that I know every word on a page, and no words get circled. It's always gratifying to reread a page and see no pen marks on it at all. I'm absolutely confident that within a year at most, I'll be circling no more than two words a page when I read a book that's written at this level. (No need to circle them and make lists at that point, huh? Just look them up as needed as I would if I were reading in English.)

Next up after the trilogy will be either Steppenwolf or the German translation of Kushiel's Dart by Jacqueline Carey. Been a while since I read a classic, so I'll probably go with the former.
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Lawyer&Mom
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Re: Dan Lernt Deutsch, Take Three! (YouTube Video Practice)

Postby Lawyer&Mom » Sat Apr 02, 2022 5:34 am

I have a degree in German, but I never got past a B2 at best. So I’m not an expert on reaching the higher levels, but feel free to cite me anyway!

I think you need to hear exaggerated prosody in order to internalize it. People are just more expressive in dialogue, especially emotional dialogue. Feel free to exaggerate your own intonation when you practice. I remember talking once with a university friend in Germany and during that conversation I was trying my best to really sound German. She said I sounded like a drunk farmer. (But a German drunk farmer!) I totally took that as a win. Lean into it, overdo it a bit, and then dial back when you get the hang of it.
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