Dylan413's Language Log

[dylan413]

As stated in my previous post, I have spent the last few weeks working more on consolidation than on the introduction of new vocabulary. I am very happy with this decision. I think that this is a method I will regularly incorporate in my future language study. I.e. I plan on introducing new material every day for somewhere in the range of 1-3 months followed by short periods of 1-3 weeks of intensive review. I've also considered dedicating one day per week to review, but it is not something I have consistently implemented.

I have recently started using ChatGPT to practice my conversation skills and it has done wonders. Previously, most of my output came in the form of monotonous diary entries. ChatGPT is so much better because I actually responses in a way that mimics a conversation with an actual person. Of course, I would prefer to practice with an actual partner, but it's difficult to find a good language partner and it doesn't cost any money unlike hiring a tutor. I think this should be an exceedingly useful tool for people who are prone to shyness or embarrassment in the early stages of language learning.

Yesterday, I met someone at a bar who spoke Italian, and they estimated my abilities to be at a B1 level, which, if true, would mean that I have reached my goal. Unfortunately, I still don't believe this to be the case. It's still exceptionally difficult for me to understand Italian TV and I'm not quick enough when it comes to constructing more complex sentences. ChatGPT obviously doesn't help much with listening or the actual sounds, but it does help me a lot with retention of vocabulary and sentence formation. Additionally, I strongly suspect that my challenges with listening have every bit as much to do with vocabulary issues than with the actual act of listening in itself. I don't have much trouble reading, but that's largely because I can do it at my own pace. When I'm listening to native speakers on Italian TV or youtube, I miss a lot in large part because I don't recognize the meaning of the words quick enough to keep up with their talking speed. So while texting will not directly improve my listening abilities in the same way that watching hours of TV with Italian subtitles would, it still helps it tangentially at the very least.

In any case, I have just started using ChatGPT as a resource for language learning, and I am very curious as to what the results will be over the following weeks and months.

[dylan413]

It has now been approximately two weeks since I started using chatGPT to practice my Italian and I am deeply impressed by the utility of this resource. My fluidity has grown immensely. Whereas before it was a struggle for me to create sentences on the fly, now it's not a big deal. I can safely say that I have reached a level of B1 in Italian with complete confidence. My vocabulary and understanding of the grammar was already quite good, but I needed practice in order to activate that knowledge and make it useful. My speaking and listening skills definitely lag behind my reading and writing skills because I don't practice them nearly as much, but I have become so comfortable with the language overall that despite not practicing speaking and listening as much, they too have grown.

I'm at the point where I can pick up a newspaper in Italian and comfortably read it, listen to university lectures on familiar subjects, and chat about a number of topics with chatGPT, but I attempted the Harry Potter test a few times and the results were quite poor. Reading literature really requires a large leap in vocabulary and I'm afraid it will be quite a while before I can even start to do that. My next goal of course is to reach a level of B2, but I'm not quite sure what a realistic deadline would be for such a goal. My guess is that a realistic goal would be some time in June. I doubt that an earlier date is very realistic and if I set a deadline that's too early for myself, I'll try to accomplish too much in too short of a time and just end up forgetting everything.

At this point, I don't really feel like I need to improve my grammar that much. No, I do not use the subjunctive effectively (although I can understand it without any issues and produce it in some situations), but I don't feel very troubled by that. I'm primarily concerned with increasing the size of my vocabulary so that I can discuss a wider variety of topics and read more challenging texts. I just checked my decks on Quizlet and I have studied somewhere in the range of 2,500 words there. There are also a number of words I have learned that I simply didn't bother to add because I felt I already knew them well enough and there are thousands of words that I can recognize but haven't formally learned yet. I'd estimate my active vocabulary is somewhere in the vicinity of 2,500 words for active vocabulary. I'm not sure how to quantify my passive vocabulary, but it's considerably higher - probably at least double the active vocabulary, but that's just a lazy estimate. I don't really have a clue.

I suspect that in order to achieve a level of B2 I'll need an active vocabulary somewhere in the range of 5000 words and a passive vocabulary that's at least 7,000 or 8,000 words. I'm quite good at learning a lot of vocabulary in a short amount of time when I set my mind to it, so I think I can increase my active vocabulary by another 2500 words by June without much of an issue. If it were a non-Indo-European language, it would be considerably trickier, but the overlap with English and Russian makes the process considerably easier.

[dylan413]

I came across another member's post 20-30 minutes ago recommending the site "quazel." I attached a link below. It's an AI program specifically designed for language learners, so that they can have basic conversations with the AI and practice their listening and speaking skills. I tried it out and I'm quite happy with its effectiveness. Unfortunately, however, after having used it for about 10 minutes, it stopped working. My guess is that it's either a result of my lousy internet connection or the site is experiencing a larger amount of traffic than it can handle. In any case, it seems to be a promising idea, and I would also like to recommend it for people at the lower levels of language learning. Of course it's better to talk with a real person, but for those of us who are shy, lack the funds for a tutor, and don't know other people who are willing to practice our target languages with us, it's a good option for a little bit of speaking practice during the day.


https://chat.quazel.com/chat

Out of all of the four main language skills (speaking, listening, writing, and reading) I have to say that listening is by far the most challenging for me. This has been the case every time I have attempted to learn a new language. I suspect that this is more of a vocabulary recognition issue than anything. Almost all of my practice is silent with written materials, so it's no shock that listening is lagging the furthest behind. I do watch some Youtube videos and Netflix in Italian every day, but it doesn't compare to my writing or reading practice.

I'm currently watching an Italian tv show on Netflix and I find it really difficult to understand without looking at the subtitles. I think part of this is because it's a mafia series set in Rome and there's a lot of Romanesco, but my listening overall isn't good regardless. Meanwhile, I've noticed that when I watch university lectures in Italian on topics I'm interested in, I have a much easier time understanding. I suspect that this is because my knowledge of conversational Italian is still pretty low and that it's about more than just Romanesco. Sometimes I even have a little bit of difficulty understanding the subtitles. It just seems slightly different even in terms of grammar or syntax from what I'm used to seeing and hearing. I'll try and compile a list of examples and share them with a tutor once I finally make an effort to find one and see what they say.

[dylan413]

I took a bit of a break from studying Italian for about ten days because I visited the UAE and Jordan and didn't really have much time for language study. Consequently, I have decided to dedicate the next week to review. I would rather consolidate the knowledge that I already possess and come out of this period feeling more comfortable with the language than to go right back into learning more and spread myself too thin.

I've also started reading a new book in Italian on the history of the Mughal Empire in India that I am really enjoying. I'm pleasantly surprised by how easy and painless it is to read. Today alone I have read over thirty pages without getting bored or frustrated. I would say that I understand more than 95% of the words, which is much higher than when I sampled various literature designed for older children and young adolescents. I suppose novels are usually more challenging because they are so detailed in their descriptions whereas historiographical works are more to the point.

My favorite part of language learning is always the B2-C1 range where I can often spend time doing what I normally would do but in the target language. This feeling of knocking two birds with one stone is extremely gratifying for me. I am absolutely not at a B2 level yet in Italian, but it does feel good to have started getting a taste of the type of language study that I find so enjoyable at those levels.

ChatGPT is still a major part of my daily practice. I often times ask it to quiz me on various historical topics and I try to answer its questions to the best of my abilities as extensively and as in much detail as possible. Then I ask it to correct my mistakes. I find this very effective.

[dylan413]

My period of review has ended and I have returned to learning new vocabulary at a rapid rate. My reading is getting better, but it depends on the subject because my vocabulary is still much less than the 7000-8000 estimated words needed to comfortably read a novel or other kinds of sophisticated literature. I'm about 110 pages into my book on the Mughal Empire and my comprehension, which was already surprisingly high, is only improving. I do have to look up words on every page, but it's not too much and it only requires a quick double-click to see definitions/translations, so it's not particularly onerous.

What never ceases to amaze me is just how different it can be learning a language through more official texts, books, etc. vs. tv, movies, or direct communication with native speakers. I don't really enjoy watching movies and tv shows and I usually find this to be an extremely inefficient way of learning the language. I prefer personal communication, especially over text, because that way I can maintain a written record of the conversation, look up words, etc. Unfortunately, I find it difficult to find people to communicate with via text in Italian because most language exchange apps are just unofficial dating websites. Guys never respond to my messages, girls who are there for the purpose of learning English rarely care to help with my Italian, and the other girls are just looking to flirt, which isn't acceptable for me because I'm not single.

I've been looking for scripts of Italian tv shows and movies that might better represent the speech patterns and vocabulary of colloquial Italian, but I haven't had much luck so far. Once I find some good resources to help me learn this type of vocabulary, I think my comprehension of everyday conversations will improve rapidly. Until then I think it will be a bit of a slog. This is exactly how Russian was for me. Once I made friends with people and we started texting, I was able to compile a list of all the vocabulary people use in daily life and learn everything very quickly. Until then, my progress was quite slow and insignificant.


Edit: I've decided to use scripts to mine vocabulary since I figure this will be more efficient then actually watching the films. I'll try this for some time and then write about the results in one of my next posts.

[dylan413]

After having studied Italian for 7 months, I finally decided to find a conversation partner on italki. I just did a 30-minute trial, but it was a big milestone for me because it was the first time I felt I was able to have an interesting conversation in Italian and delve deeper into something other than a discussion of basic biographical information. The instructor I found is a graduate student who studies history, so we mainly discussed history. I made a ton of mistakes and couldn't go into even 10% of the detail that I would have liked, but it was a nice confidence boost to actually use the language for a meaningful amount of time without having to look a word up or pausing uncomfortably long.

One thing I did notice however is that 7 months of solo studying involving few audio materials has not helped my accent or my intonation at all. My accent itself isn't such a huge problem. Usually, if I look at a word for the first time and attempt to pronounce it, I'm not too far off the mark. However, once I start speaking on the fly, I really start making making mistakes. Also, my intonation, which is an absolutely critical part of any language and especially for Italian, is absolutely horrendous. This is something I have struggled with in Russian way more than with anything else in the language. I think my primary method of learning, which is heavy on reading and writing but softer on speaking and listening in the early stages, is the primary culprit. I think I'm also just innately better at reading and writing than I am at listening and speaking if that makes any sense, but that also may be derived more a personal preference for the spoken and written word than for listening and speaking because I find it to be inefficient.

More conversational practice will be good for my Italian, but I also think I should incorporate audiobooks paired up with text, so that I can pay attention more closely to the overall rhythm of the language and the way words should be pronounced. The earlier I start with this the better as I don't want any of my mistakes to fossilize. I think the next stage of my learning is going to involve experimentation with a number of various strategies for short periods of time because I'm entering somewhat uncharted territory for me. While I have learned Russian up to an advanced level, I did so while living in Russia and studying the language full-time. Meanwhile, as it currently stands, I still haven't been to Italy since having begun my study of the language, and I have had no extended, meaningful communication in Italian with anyone. Everything so far has been almost totally on my own (+ ChatGPT). I would like to branch out and learn Italian the way I learned Russian, but unfortunately I don't have that option and probably never will for Italian or any language.

[dylan413]

Finally, my workload seems to be starting to decrease. I am very happy about this because it means that I will have more time to dedicate towards my Italian. I've been trying to work on my intonation and pronunciation over the past week because I don't want to run into the same problems I have had in Russian regarding intonation. I'm finding it much easier in Italian than in Russian because Italian intonation is so much more predictable even though it's so unnatural for me as a native English speaker. Italian also has way less forms thanks to the fact that it doesn't have a case system, so it's much easier in that regard too.

Vocabulary continues to be my main nemesis. Of course I make grammar mistakes pretty consistently, but they are small, and at this point I'm quite happy with getting my point across successfully without sounding completely ridiculous. I think that even my issues with listening are probably also connected to vocabulary as well. I might know the words well enough to recognize them and understand while reading because I can go at my own pace, but when people speak quickly, it takes too long for the meaning of the words to register in my head for me to avoid getting lost. More consolidation is the only answer to this problem.

I think at this point I am ending the first "fun" period of language learning, where progress is rapid and comes relatively easily, but I have not yet entered the second "fun" level of language learning where extensive reading becomes the primary method of learning. This is usually the stage where I start to lose motivation sooner or later because the feeling of progress becomes less palpable, but I'm still yet to reach the point where I can regularly pick up any material in the TL and comfortably engage it without having too work my brain too hard.

I'm going to set the end of the summer as my goal for a solid B2 level of Italian, but I'd like to start entering those waters by the end of June. I'm not certain I will be able to pull this off given my history of maintaining motivation and consistency at this level of language learning, but I will definitely make more of an effort than I did in the past since I am so tired of reaching an intermediate level and then "losing" my languages after a short time.

[dylan413]

May was a rather productive month, but I wasn't able to get hardly any studying done during the month of June due to a number of unforeseen problems that came up. Consequently, I have spent the past few weeks reviewing what I have already learned little by little, and I only now feel that I am starting to recover. My review primarily consists of revisiting old vocabulary via Quizlet, writing journal entries, and doing some reading.

Additionally, I am using Chatgpt again. I had it evaluate my level of Italian after a brief conversation and it estimated that my level is B2. I would say that this is a fair estimate based on my writing, but my other skills lag behind, and it obviously doesn't take into consideration the pace at which I'm able to articulate myself, which is not quite fast enough to have a casual conversation without it getting boring quickly. Still, my speaking seems to be pretty decent. Listening is still by far my biggest weakness, which is always the case when I study foreign languages. I'm hoping to fix this by spending more time having conversations with native speakers on italki, something I have not been able to do for the past 11 months due to an unpredictable, busy schedule and my preference for studying by myself.

[dylan413]

It has now been roughly a year since I began studying Italian and I am quite happy with my progress. Today, I asked an instructor to evaluate my level and he said that I am a solid B1. This has been the case for quite a long time, but it was nice to hear that confirmed by a native speaker. My reading and writing are still substantially better, and I believe it would be quite fair to evaluate them as B2. I have put in quite a lot of time, but I have spent less than 100 dollars (including a subscription to la repubblica), which I think is solid proof that a great deal can be achieved on one's own with the help of books and the internet.

I am quite happy with my methodology. I have spent most of the past year mining books, newspapers, movies, and youtube videos for vocabulary before memorizing them on Quizlet and incorporating them into conversations with ChatGPT. Of course, I would prefer to practice with a native speaker, but I find that it can be quite difficult to find a good partner, and regular communication with a tutor can become quite expensive.

In order to become truly comfortable in the language and reach a solid B2 level, I believe I will have to start engaging native speakers in conversation on a regular basis. Consequently, I think I will start hiring tutors a few times a week to improve the fluidity of my speaking. Also, I plan to start weening myself off of subtitles because listening is still my weakest skill.

I have learned more than 4000 words over the past year and there are of course many more words that I can recognize thanks to cognates in other languages. I think that an active vocabulary of 4000 carefully chosen words is more than enough for a B2 level, so I plan to start focusing less on expanding my vocabulary and more on consolidating what I already have.

I'm planning on starting a new language by the end of this calendar year but only after I feel that I have reached a solid B2 level in all four skill categories. This should be quite a doable goal, and I'm very excited to achieve it as this is my favorite stage of language learning. I have a bad habit of neglecting and "losing" languages in the past, but I am determined to not make that mistake again now that I have a better understanding of the value of maintenance when it comes to language learning.

[dylan413]

I'm quite happy to say that my Italian has improved considerably since my last post in August. I'm definitely entering B2 territory, but I will probably wait a little longer before I label myself as such because I always prefer to err in the direction of underselling myself. I have probably improved more in the past three months than I did in the year of study prior to that. This is largely a question of time since I am only working part-time at the moment, but also because I have finally started using the language mostly through communicating with Italian speakers via text. I probably could have entered this stage nearly a year ago, but I was too shy and worried about inconveniencing my interlocutors with my low level and kept on putting it off.

I would say that I have an active vocabulary that is constituted of roughly 4000-5000 words and a passive vocabulary somewhere in the range of 6,000-7,000 words.

I can communicate quite comfortably on a variety of different topics, but there certainly are moments where I realize I don't have all of the vocabulary necessary to articulate an idea without resorting to awkward circumlocutions. My reading is pretty much where I would like it to be. Reading Umberto Eco is certainly a challenge, but Harry Potter and most history books are well within my comfort zone. I don't feel any need to read sophisticated literature in Italian, so I'm more or less happy with that ability, but I'm continuing to read because I enjoy it and it's useful for improving my vocabulary and absorbing the grammar organically. I was pleasantly surprised recently to notice that my issues with listening have more or less disappeared as well rather quickly.

Over the next few months I will continue what I have been doing so far since I am enjoying it and it has been rather effective. However, I will probably start forcing myself to utilize more complex sentence structures and begin focusing more on consolidating the vocabulary I have already learned as opposed to new vocab that I come across.


I'm not yet certain, but if my progress continues at this rate, I will probably return to one of my Turkic languages later this winter and just continue practicing Italian by reading and talking to people.