Dylan413's Language Log

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dylan413
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Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:58 am
Languages: English (N)
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Italian (B2)
Ukrainian (B1)
Azeri (A2)
French (A2)
Turkish (A2)
Uzbek (A2)
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Dylan413's Language Log

Postby dylan413 » Thu Feb 17, 2022 7:59 pm

Hi, everyone.

I've been a member of the forum since 2016 under the name dylan329. Unfortunately, I forgot my password after a lengthy period of absence from the site. Hopefully, I'll post more frequently and study more consistently, but I have to admit, it's been quite difficult me over the past year due to the demands of my job.

Currently, I'm studying Azerbaijani language. My native language is English and I speak Russian fluently as a second language. I also have a significant amount of experience studying Latin, French, Italian, Ukrainian, and Uzbek. Unfortunately, my active skills in these languages are pretty much nil thanks to years of neglect. I hope on revisiting some of these languages in the future, but at the moment, Azerbaijani is my main priority. I don't care to become a particularly eloquent Azerbaijani speaker, but I would like to become reasonably comfortable in the language due to the fact that Azerbaijan is the country where I currently reside.

Update: August 24th
I'll detail my language background below:
- I took Latin for six years in a classroom environment between the ages of 12 and 18. This was my first serious introduction to foreign-language learning.
- I took French for three years also in a classroom environment between the ages of 15 and 18.
- I took a semester of intensive Italian language classes in the first years of my studies at university.
- I took five semesters of Russian at university before moving to a small city in Russia for two years, where I immersed myself fully in Russian. I have spoke Russian on a daily basis ever since.
- I took a year of Ukrainian-language classes. I have since neglected my study of Ukrainian, but I have retained much of my knowledge due to its proximity with Russian.
- I took a semester of intensive Chinese classes.
- I took a year's worth of Uzbek in an online university course over the course of eight weeks. According to my instructor, I was able to reach a proficiency of high-B1 low-B2 by the end, but this was them simply trying to pat themselves on the back. More realistically, I would say I was a high A2 or a low-B1 depending on how strictly the criteria is measured.
- I have studied Azerbaijani and Turkish independently and intermittently ever since the start of the pandemic, but my consistency has been atrocious for a variety of reasons, and my progress has been largely commensurate.

While this forum is primarily dedicated to learners of foreign languages, I have also decided to make an effort to improve my communication skills in my native language as well. While I have never been a poor communicator, I grew up with the ignorant belief that eloquence was somehow effeminate and pretentious, and my communication abilities, particularly in an academic context, have suffered accordingly ever since. While I am by no means a poor communicator in comparison to the average population, I have always found my abilities to be lacking in comparison to those of my colleagues, and this has certainly hindered my professional development to some degree at the very least due to its negative impact on my confidence.

Improving my communication skills in English is unfortunately somewhat of a challenge because I conduct almost all of my day-to-day living in Russian, but that doesn't prevent me from reading and writing.

Lastly, language learning, at least for me, is above all else, the acquisition of habits. The most important thing is to simply pay attention. The second is to be consistent. I wrote this last bit here as a remainder to myself not to stray off course.
Last edited by dylan413 on Wed Aug 24, 2022 7:59 am, edited 4 times in total.
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dylan413
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Posts: 55
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:58 am
Languages: English (N)
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Uzbek (A2)
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Re: Dylan413's Language Log

Postby dylan413 » Mon Aug 22, 2022 9:03 pm

Well, it's now August, and I have to say that my Azerbaijani skills are still quite weak. Finding time to study languages as an adult is certainly much more difficult than it was when I was a student. My vocabulary has grown, but my ability to compose sentences has not changed. This isn't shocking because I haven't made any serious attempts to communicate in the language beyond basic conversations with taxi drivers who don't speak Russian. One interesting observation that I've made is that my knowledge of nouns is actually quite good. It's my knowledge of verbs, etc. that is weaker.

I will also say that regardless of what the FSI's research indicates, learning Azerbaijani seems more time consuming for me than Russian. It's not that the language itself is inherently more complicated than Russian, but with Russian being an Indo-European language, there is just so much that can be taken for granted that can't be assumed with Azerbaijani, especially when it comes to the syntax and grammar in more complex constructions.

On a side note, I plan on applying for Italian citizenship soon (I'm eligible via my grandmother), so I've decided to spend some time on the side refreshing my long lost Italian knowledge. I know that learning two languages at a time is generally not a good idea, but I enjoy learning Italian, and I've reached a point where I am not enjoying my study of Azerbaijani largely due to slow progress. I'm still learning a little bit every day, but I think for the sake of my confidence it doesn't hurt to return to something that feels more natural for me and brings quicker results.
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dylan413
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Posts: 55
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:58 am
Languages: English (N)
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Uzbek (A2)
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Re: Dylan413's Language Log

Postby dylan413 » Wed Aug 24, 2022 7:01 am

I've initiated my study of Italian by using Duolingo for the first time and I have to say that I am pleasantly surprised by its effectiveness. It seems quite comprehensive for such a seemingly basic program, and while I have only worked on the first unit so far, it appears to me that it has the depth to bring learners to an A2 level in the language without too much reliance on outside materials. Of course, Duolingo is by no means the only program out there capable of doing this, but considering its simplicity and entertainment value, I think it's well worth using, and I'll probably use it in the future when I'm in the beginner stages of other languages.

That being said, I'm not sure if that will ever be truly necessary. My current "life-time goals" for language learning are to boost my Romance and Turkic languages (the ones listed in my profile) into the intermediate range. Depending on the way the wind blows, I'm not sure that I'll even be able to accomplish this task, let alone start new languages.

At this point, I plan on following through with Duolingo Italian from start to finish. I'll start to phase in other materials well before I complete it, but I am yet to decide on them. At the moment, I'm working concurrently with my Italian textbook from university (Avanti Italian). It's a decent textbook, but it's clearly meant for a classroom, and not an individual, which presents some issues. If anyone knows of any Italian textbooks designed for individual learners, especially ones that aren't too heavy on the fluffy images, "trying too hard to be entertaining," etc. then I'd be more than happy to hear your recommendations.
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dylan413
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Posts: 55
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:58 am
Languages: English (N)
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Azeri (A2)
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Uzbek (A2)
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Re: Dylan413's Language Log

Postby dylan413 » Thu Aug 25, 2022 11:49 am

I've completed the first unit of Duolingo's Italian course. I'm still pleasantly surprised by its effectiveness, but I've been using Quizlet alongside it to ensure that I get more customized repetition for some of the vocabulary. At this point, I've committed to completing the course, and I'm curious as to how comfortable I'll feel at that point. I'm a false beginner with a great deal of experience in previous Romance languages, so for the sake of experiment the results of my progress won't be particularly helpful, but I'm excited to see what will happen.

Right now I'm searching for a textbook to replace Avanti Italian. I love using textbooks and I plan on phasing textbooks deeper into my learning over the next month or so, but I'm not sure this is the right one. It certainly has its pros, but I'm not able to view the answers to the exercises without access to their website, which I lost a long time ago, and the textbook is designed for a classroom learning. I would prefer one that is designed for independent learners and provides the answers to the exercises more easily so that I can self check. I've come across a sample of Italian: A Self-Teaching Guide, 2nd Edition and I'm considering using this as a resource in the future, but I haven't found an ebook version of it yet, and obtaining a paper copy will be a bit of a challenge since I currently live in Azerbaijan.
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dylan413
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Posts: 55
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:58 am
Languages: English (N)
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Uzbek (A2)
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Re: Dylan413's Language Log

Postby dylan413 » Wed Aug 31, 2022 10:11 pm

This past week has been reasonably productive. I'm still slowly powering through Duolingo and repeating the vocabulary in Quizlet. So far all of my studying has been passive. Usually I like to have a reasonably solid vocabulary before I start forcing myself to produce sentences on my own in a major way, i.e. writing a diary, communicating with people, etc. Right now, I've studied 700+ cards in Quizlet, but approximately 100 of them are sentences that help me internalize grammar and sentence structure. In addition to Duolingo, I've been reading sections of wikipedia articles that interest me and watching youtube videos in Italian. I can often understand enough to make it reasonably enjoyable when in small doses, but I need subtitles when watching videos and it's really just to help get a feel for the language. I'm looking forward to when I reach a higher level of proficiency and improving my Italian becomes a bonus alongside the interesting content rather than the main purpose of watching videos and reading. I'm not sure whether most people enjoy studying languages in the earlier or later stages, but my favorite stage is certainly around the intermediate level when I can just consume lots of content that interests me and interact with people while simultaneously slowly improving my language skills.
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dylan413
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Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:58 am
Languages: English (N)
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Re: Dylan413's Language Log

Postby dylan413 » Tue Sep 06, 2022 12:24 am

Weekly Summary

It's been roughly two weeks since I started learning Italian. I've learned about 800 words on Quizlet and my guess is that I'll finish the second level of Duolingo in about a week. While a lot of this vocabulary has been quite easy to learn because of previous study and similar vocabulary, I am definitely losing steam despite maintaining high motivation. Also, I've been learning most of the vocabulary in sentences, so I've been working on the grammar and sentence structure along the way. For the most part this hasn't been too difficult, but there have been a few stumbling blocks.

Goals for September and October:
- I feel that I'm starting to spread myself thin with the vocabulary I have acquired. While I can recall their meaning easily when I come across them in written form, I find that it's quite challenging remembering which words I know so that I can produce meaningful language on the spot and there's a slight delay in the recall that prevents me from understanding them when I hear them in complete sentences without subtitles. The first step I need to take is to consolidate the language that I have acquired already, including both the vocabulary and the grammar. I plan on doing this by producing as many sentences as possible with the vocabulary so that I can get quicker at speaking and writing and build up associations between the words and their meanings.

Once I start to feel comfortable with my consolidation efforts, I plan on adding more vocabulary, but at a slower, more sustainable pace. Also, as I approach an active vocabulary of ~1000 words, I think it's time that I find someone to practice with. I'm already looking for suitable tutors on italki, but really I just want someone to communicate with so that I can consolidate the language I have already learned and continue to grow my vocabulary in a natural way. My Russian-language skills really took off only after I started texting people regularly. Speaking in person was helpful, but it was incredibly inefficient because I couldn't look up the words and I just didn't know what was going on. Texting people on the other hand provided me with an opportunity to learn relevant vocabulary as efficiently as possible. My Italian is so poor that any conversation partner I find for a language exchange will completely dominate all of the interactions in English, so that's off the table, but I figure I can find a tutor with similar interests on italki who will be willing to put up with my crappy A1-A2 conversations for a bit of money :D

Mid-term Goal: low-B1 by the middle of November (6 weeks)
I will have a week off from work around the middle to end of November. Right now, I'm planning on going to Italy during this time to help motivate me to reach a B1 level by then and because it would be a lot of fun. I don't think I'll quite be able to reach it, and there's certainly a great risk that I'll end up nowhere near it, considering I have a full-time job starting back up next week, but it's a fun, meaningful goal to have, and I think it's within the realm of possibility. I'll probably have to end up readjusting this goal to the end of the calendar year, but for now, this will do.
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dylan413
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Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:58 am
Languages: English (N)
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French (A2)
Turkish (A2)
Uzbek (A2)
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Re: Dylan413's Language Log

Postby dylan413 » Mon Sep 26, 2022 6:54 pm

So far I would say that I am on track to reach my goal by December, but November will not happen. My work ended up being more intense this year than I had anticipated because my employer increased my number of classroom hours dramatically. Additionally, my vacation time has also dramatically decreased, so now I will not be able to visit Italy in November unless I quit my job, which at this point, given all of these unexpected changes, is increasingly likely.

I haven't found a conversation partner yet, but I will try to do so by the end of the first week of October. At the moment I'm still working on consolidating the vocabulary I have already learned by reading and practicing sentences with the words I know. I would say that I have a semi-active vocabulary somewhere in the vicinity of 1300 words, which I am quite happy with considering that it has been about a month of study. I would say that I have an understanding of the grammar and vocabulary that would allow me to consider myself to be somewhere in the A1-A2 range, but due to the fact that I haven't forced myself to start speaking with people on the spot yet, I hesitate to label it as such.

Additionally, I am able to read quite a lot thanks to its commonalities with English and other languages I have previously studied. Albeit, I usually miss a lot of key words, and therefore make liberal use of a dictionary. I've been reading short stories in Italian and various wikipedia pages to help maintain my level of motivation and practice my reading skills. I wouldn't say this is very intensive or efficient, but it's a fun way to obtain information that helps me with my Italian, so I'll continue doing it.
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dylan413
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Re: Dylan413's Language Log

Postby dylan413 » Sun Oct 09, 2022 12:06 pm

I don't have any major updates this week. I will say that I have been able to keep up with my daily goals in terms of vocabulary and grammar study despite my ever-increasing workload, which I am quite happy about. I have also started basic communication with a friend of mine who speaks Italian, but I have not found a tutor yet.

I will say that I am somewhat surprised by what has challenged me so far. I didn't expect many difficulties in the way of grammar, and those difficulties that I did expect were related to verb conjugations. While I have had difficulty understanding Italian sentence structure, it hasn't had much at all to do with the verbs. It has more to do with word order and syntax. It's nothing bad, but it causes problems more than I expected. For some reason I sometimes have a difficult time with direct objects. In all honesty, it probably wouldn't take more than a couple of hours max of solid drilling in order to erase this problem, but for some reason I haven't gotten around to fixing it yet. I suppose I'll need to postpone my vocabulary for later so that I can spend a day working on this fundamental part of the language.

Apart from that, I would say that things are going quite well, and I think I'm well on track to reaching a solid B1 level of the language by the beginning of the new year. However, if I want to truly reach a B1 level, I am going to have to focus more on active learning.
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dylan413
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Uzbek (A2)
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Re: Dylan413's Language Log

Postby dylan413 » Fri Nov 04, 2022 8:30 am

It's now been about nine weeks since I started learning Italian nearly a month since my last post. Overall, I am quite happy with my progress and I do think that I will reach my goal of achieving a B1 level of Italian by the beginning of the new year. I have learned somewhere in the vicinity of 2000 words and there are many more words that I recognize due to commonalities between Italian and other languages that I study. I think that my vocabulary is more or less enough to meet the criteria for a low B1 learner, but, as we all know, vocabulary alone is only a part of the battle.

My knowledge of grammar is solid. I make a lot of mistakes when I try to produce language on my own, but it's really just a lot of small mistakes such as using the wrong prepositions with the wrong nouns, improper word order, etc. These are all issues that I am trying to address one by one. I am making a daily list of 10 simple grammar rules that I plan on learning each day so that I can slowly start to correct these mistakes. This strategy worked very well when I was learning Russian, and I think that with time it will have a noticeable effect on my Italian too.

Here is an example of a list of "rules" or corrections. I highlighted the points of interest. For example, the fact that problema and clima are both masculine despite ending in the letter "a." I

1. Ho iniziato a studiare
2. Gli ho chiesto di smettere
3. Mi sono appena svegliato
4. Ho deciso di studiare
5. la mano
6. il problema
7. il clima
8. la giacca di pelle
9. Vivo lontano dall'Italia
10. Vivo vicino alla Turchia

The tenses, at least so far, have not presented hardly any issue at all for me. This will probably start to change when I start working on the subjunctive, which I can recognize without issue, but will likely have trouble producing on my own. I am very satisfied with my reading abilities at this point, but the rest of my skills are lagging behind. This isn't surprising because reading is the primary skill that I have been working on over the past couple of months, but it's definitely something that I plan on addressing over my next two months of study as I start trying to direct more attention to other skills.


My plan for the next month

Reading
- Reading short stories for learners + articles on Wikipedia and from the news.
Listening
- Communication with tutor
- Easy Italian Youtube Videos
Speaking
- Communication with tutor
Writing
- Daily diary entries
- Targeted grammar study with a textbook
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dylan413
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Posts: 55
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:58 am
Languages: English (N)
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Ukrainian (B1)
Azeri (A2)
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Turkish (A2)
Uzbek (A2)
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Re: Dylan413's Language Log

Postby dylan413 » Tue Jan 17, 2023 2:34 pm

My goal was to achieve a level of B1 in Italian in four months. I would say that this was a pretty reasonable goal, but, unfortunately, I haven't quite reached this milestone. I made a lot of progress very quickly, but at some point I stopped progressing, mostly due to increasing workload at my job, and other personal issues that needed to be resolved. Still, such is life, and ideally I would like to reach my goals regardless of what obstacles appear. In any case, in order to advance to the next level, I need to, as stated in previous posts, find a tutor or a conversation partner with whom I can practice regularly. I know myself, and if I don't do this, it will take a long time before my skills become particularly useful.

I need to improve my vocabulary and especially my fluency. Often times I know the words, but they just don't appear in my head one after another uninterrupted in the way they need to for me to communicate effectively with people. When I listen to audio I often only process the meaning of some of the words after the speaker has progressed onto something else. I will need another burst of study mostly in the form of live conversation to get over this hump. Once I can do that I am confident that I will see quick results, but I'm not sure when I will find the time for this to happen.

I made 25 sets on Quizlet, each with approximately 100 cards. Until I find a tutor or conversation partner with whom I can regularly practice, I will review this vocabulary and attempt to incorporate it as much as I can into daily writing drills. Otherwise, I'll just end up forgetting previously-learned material, and I won't progress anywhere.


Additionally, it has been previously argued by a number of people both on this forum and outside of it that one only needs to know 2000 words to have a B1 level in a language. While previously I was inclined to agree with this estimate, I have to say that now I feel like 2000 just isn't quite enough. Sure, I guess it's enough to meet all the basic criteria of B1 by the skin of one's teeth, but I can't say that I feel particularly comfortable using the language with a vocabulary in this range. I can say quite a lot, but there's always a few words missing that hinder my ability to really express myself in a worthwhile way.
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