dEhiN's Language Log

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dEhiN
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Languages: English (N); French (B2); Spanish / Brazilian Portuguese (A1-A2); Tamil (A1); Albanian / Tagalog / Maori (A0 - some words)
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Re: dEhiN's Language Log

Postby dEhiN » Sat Jan 15, 2022 6:08 pm

Challenge update time.

This is what I did for yesterday:
01.14.22.png

Portuguese
I know Portuguese wasn't on my list of languages for the 365 Challenge, but I didn't really feel up to doing any French, Spanish or Tamil yesterday. I was responding to a PM on here to someone who wrote that they are learning Portuguese, so I took the opportunity to reply in Portuguese, effectively dusting off my A1/A2 knowledge. I then figured why not do my challenge study time in Portuguese since I've picked the General Study option anyway, and the purpose is to try and do 30 minutes of language study every day? This led me to chatting with a language enthusiast friend of mine who recommended listening to the Easy Brazilian Portuguese channel on YouTube. Each video has both Portuguese and English subs and consists of someone interviewing strangers on the streets of (a random city in) Brazil on a specific topic. As I wrote in my Excel tracker, I tried at first to just listen but found it too difficult. I then tried to listen and read only the Portuguese subs and that worked somewhat. There were times where I switched to reading the English subs to understand, but then found myself focusing on the 'storyline' and not paying attention even to the audio. Finally, I settled on listening and reading the Portuguese subs with at times quickly glancing at the English subs.

For anyone interested, here's the Easy Brazilian Portuguese playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... 95eXY47oCH
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dEhiN
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Re: dEhiN's Language Log

Postby dEhiN » Sun Jan 16, 2022 9:13 pm

I'm going to try and translate another weather bulletin from French into English:
01.16.22.jpg

First, I'll list out the new vocab I learned. Some of the words I had learned before but forgotten:
occasionner to cause
important(e) sizeable (I knew the meaning of 'important' but that didn't make sense in this context)
chute, la fall
demeurer to remain
quant à as for
toutefois however (relearned)
déplacement, le move(ment), trip
endroit, le place, spot
surtout especially (relearned)
circuler to circulate, to move (I guessed the meaning of 'circulate' but that didn't make sense in this context)

This is my translation:
Snow starting this evening and tonight

Danger:
Total snowfall accumulations of 5 to 15 cm. The snow, which will be heavy at times, can greatly reduce visibility. Blowing snow at times due to blowing gusts of wind up to 60 km/h.

When: This evening, tonight until Monday afternoon or evening.

Description: A low pressure system driving toward the region south of the Great Lakes will cause a sizeable snowfall over certain areas of Southern Ontario. Some uncertainty remains about the exact amount that will fall, however, the snow will be strong at time and affect travelling on Monday. Blowing snow is also possible in places on Monday in the afternoon and evening with winds gusts coming from the north and north-west.

Consequences: The snow which falls quickly will make travelling difficult, especially during the morning commute on Monday. The amount of snow may make it difficult to move in the street, on the sidewalk and in parking lots. Visibility may be suddenly reduced at times due to heavy snow and blowing snow in places.

@lemonbird or @Le baron, I would love it if one of you (or anyone else) could critique my translation? Merci d'avance.
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dEhiN
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Re: dEhiN's Language Log

Postby dEhiN » Sun Jan 16, 2022 9:37 pm

Challenge update time.

I'm still working on today's daily study - the post above and the time actually spent on French I estimate to be about 15 minutes. However, this is what I did yesterday:
01.15.22.png

French
Since the link above is part of a screenshot, for anyone who's interested, here's the article I started to read: https://www.serieously.com/10-choses-ho ... r-friends/. I have an Android phone and when I open Chrome on it, there's the option to turn on or off what's called "Discovery" in English (or Fonctionnalité Découvertes in French) which basically shows a preview and link for various articles I might find interesting to read. These are shown on the home page of each new tab. Anyway, since switching my phone and my Google language settings to French, and since also checking out French content, some of the suggested articles are French articles, which I'm excited about. This was perhaps the first one I decided to read.

I'm happy about my progress in it because I recall a definite time when an article on pop culture would have been really challenging for me. It's funny because I thought at that time that talking about something more "easy" like pop culture over more technical subjects would've been easier for me to read in an L2 language. But I've found the opposite to be true. I guess because discussions about pop culture invariably involve a lot more colloquialisms in vocab, grammar, syntax and style. So that's why I'm happy about my ability to read some of the article.

The discussion with my friend after was also enjoyable. I know him from another language forum and he's both a linguist and huge language enthusiast, who's studied French since he was a child. It started with me asking in French about the phrase qui dit ..., dit ..., which is used in the article. However, before that got answered, he corrected some mistakes I had made in my question, which led to a discussion on why some of those corrections, etc. (The discussion was in English mostly because in the past, I've tried to have such discussions in French but that gets quickly derailed between the discussion itself and the corrections). Anyway, I finally did get my answer to the question of what the phrase meant. I didn't think of looking it up in Wiktionary, though I did try doing some general Googling but go nowhere.
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dEhiN
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Re: dEhiN's Language Log

Postby dEhiN » Sun Jan 16, 2022 9:58 pm

Ok, one last post before I go off and finish my language study for today:

Tamil
I've been chatting with someone on here who enjoyed the post I made about that Tamil subtitle and my breakdown of it. I suggested the idea of going through an online Tamil grammar resource together, which they are amenable to. This resource is one I've used in the past, though I don't believe I ever finished it. It seems that between then and now, the author of the site has updated things and added some interactivity to the site. I thought to also post on here as I go through the lessons. The site itself is called Learn Tamil or, in Tamil, தமிழ் பாட நூல் which means "Tamil textbook". நூல் is "book" and பாடம் is "lesson, study". (You'll notice that on the site's main page, பாட நூல் is written together as பாடநூல். I'm not entirely sure why because, while that is sometimes done in Tamil, I could only find the term separated out in online dictionaries and even Chrome's advanced spellchecker for Tamil highlights the term as wrong when put together.)

I'm not too sure what the study plan is - I'll have to discuss that with the person who's interested in doing this with me, but I know that personally I may not be able to do much during the week for a couple of months at least, due to work being very busy at the moment. As a result, I'm mostly expecting I'll be able to go through things like an actual study resource on the weekends. At any rate, whatever we decide on, as partially a solidification of the material for myself, as partially an enjoyment for myself, and as partially a way to help anyone else on here who might be interested in Tamil, I'm going to post about the things I learn as I go through the lessons.

Maori
A friend of mine and I are considering creating a study group to learn Maori. We've both been interested in it for a while now, and while we each have some text resources we've purchased separately in the past, they aren't the same resource. As a result, we're going to use these free online videos at Tōku Reo. Again, I know that my initial post about joining this challenge specified I'd be focusing on French, Spanish and Tamil, but now that I'm getting back into language learning, I can't help but feel the wanderlust for other languages I've always been interested in or dabbled in previously. I think for now, I'm going to limit the expansion of languages to the list to just Maori in terms of this resource and some sort of consistent study, as well as Portuguese for the times when I might be 'Spanished', 'Frenched' and 'Tamiled' out but would still like to hit the challenge goal.
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dEhiN
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Re: dEhiN's Language Log

Postby dEhiN » Mon Jan 17, 2022 12:29 am

Tamil
I jumped the gun a bit and started the Learn Tamil resource I linked in the last post. I reviewed Part 1, Introduction > Thamil Alphabet and Part 1, Introduction > Pronunciation. I'm quite familiar already with both the alphabet and how to pronounce Tamil, but it was nice to go through the lessons anyway. I compared my pronunciation with some of the audio samples, particularly for certain Tamil letters.

Here's my quick summation / lesson on the Tamil vowels and pronunciation:

Tamil actually has an abugida system, not a true alphabet (in the linguistic sense of the word). It has 13 vowels, though 12 are commonly used and actually form part of the abugida. There are also 23 consonants, though only 18 are shown in Learn Tamil. The reason for this is that those 18 are native consonants. The other 5 are called Grantha letters, and they, if I recall my history correctly, were taken from the Grantha script (whereas the current Tamil script is derived from the old Brahmic script) and are used essentially for foreign words/names/sounds. All 23 consonants can be combined with the 12 vowels.

The 12 vowels consist of 5 vowels contrasted by length and 2 diphthongs. The 5 vowels are essentially the same as what you get in a lot of other languages, such as Japanese and Maori: <a> /a/ <i> /i/ <u> /u/ <e> /e/ <o> /o/. They are contrasted by length, so you have both a short and long version of each. The 2 diphthongs that round off the vowel inventory are considered short vowels according to Learn Tamil. They are <͡ai> /ai/ <͡au> /au/.

Each of the 12 vowels have a different grapheme or script character:
- /a/ - <a>
- /aː / - <A>, <aa>
- /i/ - <i>
- /iː / - <I>, <ii>
- /u/ - <u>
- /uː / - <U>, <uu>
- /e/ - <e>
- /eː / - <E>, <ee>
- /͡ai/ - <ai>
- /o/ - <o>
- /oː / - <O>, <oo>
- /͡au/ - <au>

As you can see, the long vowels can either be written into transliterated roman letters with majuscule characters or a doubling of the miniscule characters. (Like pretty much all South Asian languages, Tamil doesn't have a standardized transliteration scheme). I put the majuscule approach first because nowadays, it's the most common I believe. However, if you see the doubled miniscule version, make sure not to get confused. For example, ஏன் /eː n/ means 'why', but when transliterated into roman characters, you can see both En and een. If you see the second version, make sure not to read it as /in/ or like the end of English 'been'. The same goes for /oː /, if you see a transliterated word with <oo>, make sure not to read it as /u/ or like in English 'school'. Also, the difference between short and long 'o' is a little rounded flourish at the end of the tail, in case you missed it, and the first character making up 'au' is short 'o'. If you're interested in learning to write the Tamil vowels in script form, there are plenty of YouTube videos that show the way to write each letter but they generally go from write to left and, with some exceptions, are written without lifting the pen/pencil.

Ok, I'm going to stop for now. I'll write about the consonants most likely another day.
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Le Baron
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Re: dEhiN's Language Log

Postby Le Baron » Mon Jan 17, 2022 2:34 am

dEhiN wrote:This is my translation:
Snow starting this evening and tonight

Danger:
Total snowfall accumulations of 5 to 15 cm. The snow, which will be heavy at times, can could greatly considerably reduce visibility. Blowing snow Blizzards at times due to winds blowing in gusts of up to 60 km/h.

When: From this evening, tonight until Monday afternoon or evening.

Description: A low pressure system driving heading toward the region south of the Great Lakes will cause [will occasion as verb] a sizeable [significant/major] snowfall over certain areas of Southern Ontario. Some uncertainty remains about as to [with regard to] the exact amount that will fall in the region; however, the snow will be could be strong heavy [or intense] at times and affect travelling [or movement(s), but travel/travelling is fine] on Monday. Blowing snow is Blizzards are also possible in places on Monday in the afternoon and evening with winds gusts coming from the north and north-west north and north-westerly winds blowing in gusts [or gales].

Consequences: The snow which falls quickly rapidly accumulating snow will make travelling difficult, especially during the morning commute [rush hour] on Monday morning. The amount of snow may make it It may become move in the street, difficult to move along motorways, roads, on the sidewalk [pavements your choice is fine too!] and in parking lots due to snow accumulation. Visibility may be suddenly reduced at times due to under heavy snow[fall] and blowing snow blizzards in places.



Where I've altered stuff doesn't mean yours is necessarily "wrong", but for style and some is just my preference. Where I think it isn't right I put the word in red.

Some notes: Poudrerie is largely (or wholly) used in Canada. The more common name for a blizzard or snowstorm in French is a tempête de neige. A couple of times you missed the sense of pourrait as could be, though you did correctly translate it as 'may' at the end. I added 'will occasion' to show that there are many vocab commonalities that are perfectly possible and that one is widely used in written English in the UK. Fort has a few translations, but it's as easy to just remember the usual 'strong', but also 'intense' to remind yourself that it also means strong in the sense of intensity like 'strong mustard' or une forte aversion. In your word list you translated quant à as 'as for' ('as to' is more common), but then translated it as 'about' in the text. When I wrote 'the rapidly accumulating snow' I think all the cases of X qui s'accumule would be translated as such. Accumule = accumulate/build up... Or it could have been: 'the snow that rapidly accumulates/builds-up'.. Same for e.g. la saleté qui s'accumule, les livres qui s'accumulent rapidement. Whatever.

I hope this feels useful and not nitpicky.
Last edited by Le Baron on Mon Jan 17, 2022 2:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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dEhiN
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Re: dEhiN's Language Log

Postby dEhiN » Mon Jan 17, 2022 3:11 am

Le Baron wrote:Some notes: Poudrerie is largely (or wholly) used in Canada. The more common name for a blizzard or snowstorm in French is a tempête de neige. A couple of times you missed the sense of pourrait as could be, though you did correctly translate it as 'may' at the end. I added 'will occasion' to show that there are many vocab commonalities that are perfectly possible and that one is widely used in written English in the UK. Forte has a few translations, but it's as easy to just remember the usual 'strong', but also 'intense' to remind yourself that it also means strong in the sense of intensity like 'strong mustard' or une forte aversion. In your word list you translated quant à as 'as for' ('as to' is more common), but then translated it as 'about' in the text. When I wrote 'the rapidly accumulating snow' I think all the cases of X qui accumule would be translated as such. Accumule = accumulate/build up... Or it could have been: 'the snow that rapidly accumulates/builds-up'.. Same for e.g. la saleté qui s'accumule, les livres qui s'accumulent rapidement. Whatever.

I hope this feels useful and not nitpicky.

Thank you! It is useful and not nitpicky. Some choices, such as using 'about' instead of 'as for' were more stylistic. But, I thought poudrerie was blowing snow. (Edit: According to Wiktionary, it does mean 'blowing snow' in Canada. I don't recall what official French word is used for blizzard).

As for pourrait, I remember understanding it as the conditional of pouvoir or 'may/might/could be' when I first read the statement, but I'm not sure what happened when I translated things. The last one I translated correctly because I suddenly remembered the proper meaning; I just forgot to go back through the text for the other examples.

Thanks for those examples of 'strong' in English with the sense of 'intense', that'll help me a lot. Regarding X qui s'accumule as '(the) rapidly accumulating X', I wouldn't have thought of that. As you could see, some phrases I translated more word-for-word, because I either didn't know they translated into a a specific English phrase or I wasn't sure how else to write them in English. This is the case with la neige qui s'accumule. Also, is s'accumuler a separate verb than accumuler, or is this a case of the reflexive being used to add a certain implication/connotation?

I like that you rewrote des vents de nord ā nord-ouest soufflant en rafales as 'north and north-westerly winds blowing in gusts'; it definitely sounds better than what I put! Lastly, I wasn't sure what the difference was between autoroute and route, which is why I just put 'streets', but seeing your 'motorways' makes me think the English version would probably have actually said 'highways, roads, sidewalks, and parking lots'. (Sidewalk tends to be used a lot more commonly here than pavement. Pavement is almost exclusively used for the building material, with maybe the exception of older folks who were heavily British-influenced when they were younger).
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dEhiN
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Re: dEhiN's Language Log

Postby dEhiN » Mon Jan 17, 2022 3:18 am

Challenge update time.

This is what I did today (it didn't fit all in one screenshot, so I broke it up):
01.16.22.png
01.16.22_2.png

As you can see, I included the time spent with the Tamil post as part of my study time. I know it's in one way not actual study of the language, particularly since what I wrote about is material I'm already very familiar with, but I counted it because it was time spent on the language - thinking about it, using it, writing a little bit in it, etc.

Maori
I decided to bit the bullet and go through the full first episode, which is 30 minutes. Again, the video itself is in English, but I believe the challenge rules basically say that when using a learning resource (like an instructional video), even if the explanations are all in English, the whole time counts. I'm debating on whether to create an Anki deck for the Maori vocab or not. I haven't used Anki since maybe 2018, and I stopped because it had basically become a chore and more about the memorization and less about the learning vocab and grammar. I did keep all my decks, so I could always resurrect them. But, maybe I'll just create a new Maori deck for the vocab I learn through this resource. After all, I don't have to study the deck indefinitely. I can always retire vocab from certain lessons after I feel I'm comfortable enough with it.
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Re: dEhiN's Language Log

Postby lemonbird » Fri Jan 28, 2022 2:11 am

Coucou Dehin!

Désolée, je n'avais pas vu que tu m'avais mentionnée ici!

dEhiN wrote:
lemonbird wrote:…en Ontario donc c'est complètement anglophone :) Vu que c'est une ville de fonctionnaires, il y a bien quelques personnes qui connaissent le français mais c'est impensable pour un francophone de s'imaginer recevoir des services dans sa langue là-bas.

Vraiment? Si c'est le cas, ça me dit que notre pays a besoin de faire plus mieux avec son bilinguisme. La ville d'Ottawa, elle est la capitale de Canada, donc on présumerait que tous les services devraient offrir dans les deux langues officials! Auparavant, je ne comprends pas bien l'état de bilinguisme au Canada.

Honnêtement, je crois que le bilinguisme canadien est un fantasme personnel de Trudeau le père et une utopie irréaliste et mais ce serait un débat pour un autre jour … :)

@lemonbird or @Le baron, I would love it if one of you (or anyone else) could critique my translation? Merci d'avance.

Le Baron a fait une correction beaucoup plus exhaustive que moi. Ce que j'avais relevé pour ma part …

Quand: de ce soir = When: from* this evening
S'accumule = piling up? (a bit the contrary of falling, actually)
Heure de pointe = rush hour

C'était des termes assez techniques et je connaissais pas tout les termes en anglais donc j'aurais pas pu dire si c'était la bonne traduction exacte à tous coups.

dEhiN wrote:… is s'accumuler a separate verb than accumuler, or is this a case of the reflexive being used to add a certain implication/connotation?

Les deux peuvent exister. Je suis pas une bolle en grammaire mais je crois que c'est une question de transitif vs. intransitif, peut-être? « J'accumule trop de choses », « Cette homme accumule les conquêtes amoureuses » vs. « Les choses s'accumulent. », « les conquêtes amoureuses peuvent s'accumuler sans qu'on s'en rende compte »
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dEhiN
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Re: dEhiN's Language Log

Postby dEhiN » Thu Feb 03, 2022 6:31 am

Hi all / Bonjour tout le monde!

It's been a while since I posted last - almost 3 weeks. I haven't done anything for the 365 challenge since my last post basically, on Jan. 16. Work has been extremely busy, and my weekends, which I had been using at the beginning of January to get in some 365 challenge study, became collateral damage these last two weeks to work. That is, for the weekend after the 16th, despite desiring to do some 365 challenge work, I decided to spend all day Saturday and Sunday doing some programming for work. It was extra-curricular and not necessary, but it was enjoyable. Then, the most recent weekend that passed, I ended up doing nothing for Saturday and on Sunday I had to work about 4 hours.

One piece of good news though is that since Jan. 19, I've been studying Anki again. I say again because for a period of maybe 3 or 4 years, I used Anki a lot and built up my own decks for a bunch of languages. When I wanted to take a break, I put them all in a storage or inactive state. Because I knew that I couldn't quite make the 30 minutes of study a day but still wanted to fulfill my language interest, I picked up Anki starting with my French deck. Since then, I've added my Spanish, Portuguese and Tamil decks to the mix. However, I'm doing them at different rates - 10 new cards a day for French, 5 for Spanish, 3 for Portuguese, and 1 for Tamil. Respectively, the decks have a total of 1430, 751, 589, and 607 cards. Oh, I also created a Maori deck with 13 cards for the vocab I learned from Toku Reo, episode 1.

Some of the cards are words or grammar points I don't need to actually study since I'm fully comfortable with them. I was suspending those, but since there's no sure way to indicate cards that you fully know except to just keep hitting easy until they become mature cards I unsuspended them. I'm debating on whether to add a progress meter for each deck to my signature. I briefly considered making the Anki study time my 365 challenge study time, but I never hit 30 minutes. And I haven't had the time nor energy nor inclination to strive and intentionally pursue more language study to make up the 30 minutes.

All in all though, I'm glad of where I'm at now because I'm still doing some form of learning/study. When work calms down a bit, which should be mostly by the end of February, I will get back to going through learntamil.com and Toku Reo. I also hope to add the new vocabulary I've listed on this log to my decks.
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