malach's log - Mandarin

Continue or start your personal language log here, including logs for challenge participants
malach
Orange Belt
Posts: 148
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:52 am
Languages: English (native)
Mandarin Chinese
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=17627
x 371

Re: malach's log - Mandarin

Postby malach » Sun Nov 27, 2022 12:23 pm

TLDR: Stop trying to learn new things - find material from which to consolidate and learn to use what I do know.

I've decided to reorient myself a bit. So far, I thought that by going through my TY book and practising what I could, that I would make continual progress. But that has failed. Using things actively is difficult, as it takes me a while to come up with appropriate sentences, and either I don't get something I could say, or I miss the opportunity. My goal is not, paradoxically, to become an advanced user of Chinese - I have to be realistic about my own capabilities - but I do want to be able to speak and understand a limited amount of Mandarin, so I can communicate with sympathetic people directly around me. For this, I estimate an advanced beginner level of knowledge, 500-1000 words, should be enough. But I need to be able to use those words actively.

Anyhow, I had been trying to push basic knowledge of the language forward, but that's been getting harder and harder and quite dispiriting. If I look back at some of my posts here, the past few months have had little actual progress to report. A few days ago, I got hold of a HSK 1 reader - very simple stuff - and one little sentence popped out, something like "his health was not so good". Even though I knew the words and sentence form, it took a couple of passes to fully understand the sentence - more so, I also realised it was a useful kind of sentence, but not one I could spontaneously say myself.

As daily life consists of many repeatable scenarios, perhaps my strategy should better be to soak up as much of this basic level material as I can, reuse and recycle. Out of say 500 words, if I could read and hear tens of thousands of uses of those words, perhaps then I would have the basis to use them in my own speech. So, I'm retiring the TY book for now, and will begin a new consolidation plan:

  • HSK 1 Reading and Listening by Yun Xian
  • HSK 2 Reading and Listening by Yun Xian
  • Mandarin Companion Breakthrough: Xiao Ming
  • Mandarin Companion Level 1: Sherlock Holmes
  • More Mandarin Companion/Graded Reader books (to be determined)
3 x

User avatar
grayson
Yellow Belt
Posts: 59
Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2022 1:46 pm
Location: Netherlands
Languages: English (N)
Dutch (fluent)
Spanish (false beginner)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=18491
x 364
Contact:

Re: malach's log - Mandarin

Postby grayson » Sun Nov 27, 2022 1:25 pm

I used to think travel phrasebooks were the language-learning equivalent of utter junk food, to be avoided at all costs, but I've come around to thinking they can be useful early on, to jump-start productive ability during the first months or years while you're filling in enough foundation to create your own sentences on the fly. In my mind, phrasebooks would be something to robotically memorize now, and then later, enjoy the little postprandial epiphanies about structure and meaning as you learn more from your "real" studies.
4 x
gbmj.net | my 2024 log | my 2024 life areas | my 2024 commitments
~~~
Much madness is divinest sense, to a discerning eye; much sense, the starkest madness. —Emily Dickinson

malach
Orange Belt
Posts: 148
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:52 am
Languages: English (native)
Mandarin Chinese
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=17627
x 371

Re: malach's log - Mandarin

Postby malach » Tue Nov 29, 2022 12:12 pm

Last night, I finally realised something: I seem to have got to a point, for any Big Bang Theory fans, like Penny being taught "a little physics" by Sheldon - "can we forget all this extra stuff, and can you just tell me what Leonard does".

Why am I getting stuck with my TY book? Why does signing up for a course like Rocket Languages not appeal to me? Because I'm not interested in ordering food in a restaurant (can't remember when I last went to one of those), nor open a bank account (really can't see myself working in China). This is all "extra stuff" - I don't need to learn that vocabulary, be able to have those conversations.

I wrote previously that I just want to speak/understand things in "daily life" - whatever that is. Following on my last post, I managed to read some HSK 1 level stories, and can understand their audio form. It's possible to say quite a bit at that level, if you have the right words. I already understand the simplest sentence structures for statements and questions, and some modal verbs. What I don't have is the right words, or preparation: hello my "daily life" - why don't I just learn that bit?

So, I came up with a plan! I'm going to go around the house and photograph things. Then I'll put the photographs in a document and below each one make a lot of notes. These notes will be:

  • new vocabulary I want to know - the names of things, typical activities
  • sentences for things I can expect to want to say
  • anything else, as they come to me
For example, I may have a photograph of the fridge: in the notes, I'll get words for things in the fridge that I don't yet know, and make up stories like "we have milk but have run out of eggs. tomorrow we must go shopping and buy eggs."

And then I will practise these sentences and words until I can say them without thinking. The idea is to be specific to what is around me - I know generally how to describe things, but if I have practised referring to "the coffee table in the living room" (not an abstract coffee table, but the specific one down the stairs in the room on the left), then I'll be able to say that without thinking when I want to say where I left my book. Just walking around the house will then act as a regular practice session, as I try to recall all the vocabulary and sentences.

I have the big advantage of rarely being more than 10 feet away from a native speaker, so my sentences and pronunciation can be checked and corrected quickly where necessary. Also, using relevant sentences will be more interesting for everyone than getting feedback on arbitrary textbook stuff!

Of course, I should probably have been doing this all along. The difference moving forward is that I'm going to actively create my own useful vocabulary and sentences, linked to photographs of things actually around me. Whereas before this, I was more thinking of "learning Chinese" as a "thing" to do, and then almost falling out of that would be the ability to converse about daily life.

Can anyone see any big drawback? I know it's a ridiculously simple idea, which I really should have thought of earlier, but I find it hard to manage more than one approach at a time, and following a textbook made sense. I don't regret that necessarily - you have to have some basis on which to build. But if I don't make this language more concrete and usable, I doubt I'll get much further with it. Time to see if the camera has any charge - I haven't used that for months, either ...
6 x

User avatar
Dr Mack Rettosy
Orange Belt
Posts: 134
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2020 5:53 pm
Location: USA, The Great Lakes
Languages: English (N), Mandarin
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=16180
x 729

Re: malach's log - Mandarin

Postby Dr Mack Rettosy » Mon Dec 05, 2022 3:53 pm

I think your idea is fundamentally sound. Languages are to be used, and studying with apps and textbooks while useful don’t allow you to “use” the language in any real sense.

What do you enjoy in your NL, and can you work towards doing it in Mandarin? Do you enjoying meeting people and having conversations? Then do language exchanges. Do you want to be at the bleeding edge of social movements (or waste time watching cat videos)? Then download 小红书 and 抖音. Do you want to explore and dive into Chinese literature? Then focus on reading (as an aside I highly encourage you to read every single one of Mandarin Companion graded readers. The ebooks can be bought as a bundle package on Pleco). Do you want to listen to podcasts? Start with beginner learning podcasts that have interesting material, plenty can be found on YouTube, and work your way up to native material on topics that interest you.

加油哥们儿!
2 x
Mandarin goals:
Read: 2146000 / 10000000 /10,000,000 汉字
Study: 2006 / 5000 / 5000 hours

malach
Orange Belt
Posts: 148
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:52 am
Languages: English (native)
Mandarin Chinese
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=17627
x 371

Re: malach's log - Mandarin

Postby malach » Tue Dec 06, 2022 12:15 pm

Dr Mack Rettosy wrote:I think your idea is fundamentally sound. Languages are to be used, and studying with apps and textbooks while useful don’t allow you to “use” the language in any real sense.


Thanks! So far, it is succeeding in giving me more starters for conversation.

Dr Mack Rettosy wrote:What do you enjoy in your NL, and can you work towards doing it in Mandarin? Do you enjoying meeting people and having conversations? Then do language exchanges. Do you want to be at the bleeding edge of social movements (or waste time watching cat videos)? Then download 小红书 and 抖音. Do you want to explore and dive into Chinese literature? Then focus on reading (as an aside I highly encourage you to read every single one of Mandarin Companion graded readers. The ebooks can be bought as a bundle package on Pleco). Do you want to listen to podcasts? Start with beginner learning podcasts that have interesting material, plenty can be found on YouTube, and work your way up to native material on topics that interest you.

加油哥们儿!


Yes, I have to think about how to support my goal with other materials. Rather reluctantly, I have decided graded readers (at the lowest levels) will be helpful, as they reinforce the simplest words and sentences. I'm not sure how much else I will do - I have limited ambitions at present. (I am very impressed by what you achieved in your log, by the way, but it's not a path I think I can follow myself.)
2 x

malach
Orange Belt
Posts: 148
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:52 am
Languages: English (native)
Mandarin Chinese
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=17627
x 371

Re: malach's log - Mandarin

Postby malach » Tue Dec 13, 2022 6:37 pm

Progress

I have completed some reading:

  • HSK 1 Reading and Listening by Yun Xian
  • Mandarin Companion Breakthrough: Xiao Ming
I seem to be quite happy with around 150-200 characters, and manage the HSK 1 level materials fine. Going beyond that will mean spending time on learning to read HSK 2-level characters.

Speaking practice has also improved somewhat, as I slowly increase my active vocabulary with relevant words. My new tactic of photographing things in the house and writing notes on them seems to be helpful. Something I've struggled with before is the lack of tangibility of spoken skills: when writing in another language, you see what you wrote; when reading, you have the books that you have completed. But speaking - did it happen? What phrases were used? What mistakes did I make? Having pictures of concrete situations/things in my life means I can practise sentences, recall what I said before, etc, and I can make notes if necessary.

Plan

Nothing much beyond continuing to practise what I do know - it's more important to be able to speak the few things I can say intelligibly than to add on more half-remembered stuff. So, for every word and sentence I review, I'm double-checking the pronunciation and tones, and trying to increase the ease with which I can say them.
3 x

malach
Orange Belt
Posts: 148
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:52 am
Languages: English (native)
Mandarin Chinese
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=17627
x 371

Re: malach's log - Mandarin

Postby malach » Mon Jan 02, 2023 12:46 pm

Progress

Some small progress, in terms of learning some new vocabulary and small phrases, which I use 'around the house'.

Over the last week, we had a few meetings with mostly Mandarin-speakers, so I got a huge amount of listening practice - at least 20 hours. Some small things I can get, and some topics almost follow, but mostly it was a reminder of the enormity of the task of learning this language.

Plans

I've come to a realisation about myself, which is probably too long coming, but I need to be more practical and long-term in my efforts, something what will last day-by-day and week-by-week to form months and years. I also need spoon-feeding. I'm not at the level of independently reading/listening in Mandarin, and I'm not going to last long if I have to struggle too much each week. That's why I dropped off my study of the TY book during the second half of last year.

Yes, I'm a 'fine weather' learner - I somehow want to learn the language without making too many effort!

Anyhow, I may have found a saviour, or at least a possible route forward, in the form of Yoyo Chinese. I looked at several sites - I was tempted to try a few, like Rocket Languages or Pimsleur, but none appealed, especially as the sessions etc seemed to be long, and I couldn't see myself persisting. But Yoyo's videos appear short, 5-10 minutes. Each is supported with quiz/practice sessions and an audio review. The audio review can be downloaded onto my MP3 player to hear later in the day or review in the following days/weeks. And the suggested schedule is a 6 month, 6-day a week, plan with 20-40 minute sessions. This seems doable. And, more importantly, maintainable.

So, current plan.
  • continue, obviously, with my daily use of Mandarin, speaking and listening
  • work through Yoyo Chinese Beginner course - I'm going through the first levels a bit quicker to find my level, which will be around 4 or 5 in their course
  • later in the year (April?), start to follow Yoyo Chinese Intermediate course - using the 6 month, slow schedule

Over the year, I should be slowly exposed to a good bit of the language, and at a slow pace, meaning I can integrate it into daily use. Possibly! Let's see how it goes.
5 x

malach
Orange Belt
Posts: 148
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:52 am
Languages: English (native)
Mandarin Chinese
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=17627
x 371

Re: malach's log - Mandarin

Postby malach » Sat Feb 11, 2023 10:03 am

Progress

Well, this was, as usual, a busy time of the year for me, but somehow I'm still here, slowly learning Mandarin. But my learning is now mostly down to following Yoyo Chinese - I'm near the end of level 5 of the Beginner Conversation Course. Their schedule seems to suit me, with a small lesson per day, although it's surprising how these small lessons build up into difficult steps if you don't keep on top of them - the last couple of weeks have introduced several new ideas, and my quiz results are dropping to 40%, so it's time for revision this weekend.

Plan

  • Continue with Yoyo Chinese - I should finish the Beginner Course in March
2 x

malach
Orange Belt
Posts: 148
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:52 am
Languages: English (native)
Mandarin Chinese
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=17627
x 371

Re: malach's log - Mandarin

Postby malach » Sun Mar 12, 2023 11:47 am

Progress

Somehow, I managed to finish the Beginner's Conversational course on YoyoChinese! Yay!

The timing of this course suits me - a little each day. And a video is much easier to digest in the midst of a busy day than a page in a textbook. And I particularly like the audio review sessions - it's not always easy to find time to go through them, but a couple of repetitions seems to fix the material in my head.

Am I able to easily use everything from the course? No. But the improvements each week are clear, and the knowledge does tend to stick. So I'll be continuing with this website as my main source.

Plan

  • Start and follow Intermediate Conversational Chinese.
  • Continue listening to the audio review from the previous course, as practice.
5 x

malach
Orange Belt
Posts: 148
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:52 am
Languages: English (native)
Mandarin Chinese
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=17627
x 371

Re: malach's log - Mandarin

Postby malach » Sun Mar 19, 2023 1:37 pm

Progress

Well, one solid week at the Intermediate Level! And this morning I went through all the level 3 audio review sessions from the Beginner Level. A good refresher, as many terms I was starting to forget, like "last year", etc. I like the structure of the reviews: she asks for words and phrases repeatedly, with plenty of pauses to allow you to say the answers yourself.

Plan

Nothing dramatic, just continue with the course.

However, I will soon have to rely on my meagre skills in earnest: I have around ten weeks until the mother-in-law arrives! She does not speak any English, so ... I'm sure her visit will transform my use of the language. But in advance, I'll have to work harder on my reviews, and do some more imaginary role-play to build up useful vocabulary.
5 x


Return to “Language logs”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests