Eternal Sunshine of the Italian Mind

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StringerBell
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Re: è un po che non ci vediamo

Postby StringerBell » Tue Nov 23, 2021 11:28 pm

I just finished another awesome LE. I did 1.25 hours in Italian (and more than that in English). In the past, I used to feel kind of relieved when calls were done. Even though I really enjoyed talking with my LEP, it was just so mentally taxing to try to speak in Italian that I felt exhausted by the end of it. Now, I'm feeling really energized and feel like I could continue indefinitely. It's such a strange transformation and I still don't know what to make of it.

So far, I seem to be making no mistakes at all with verb tenses when during my conversations. I specifically asked to have these mistakes pointed out but my LEP assured me there wasn't even 1 to correct. Yet somehow my writing is full of them! I think the problem is specifically when I try to recount stories; when I'm just chitchatting about an article I read or whatever I did that week the verb tenses don't seem to be much of an issue. But when I have to narrate a detailed series of events, that's when I get into some trouble.

I just learned "fare colpo su di..." to talk about impressing someone (romantically). That's a tough one to work into a conversation organically so I've just been using it in sentences in my head. And I learned the word "siccità" (drought) which came up during my LE today. That one is going to take a little practice. It's weird how some words are super easy to remember and others don't want to stick! I remember several new words from articles that I read just once yesterday without even trying, but siccità just doesn't want to happen. Maybe by writing about it here I'll finally be able to recall it.

We've been doing LE video calls through Signal (which is connected both on my computer and phone). I highly recommend it for anyone who is looking for a more secure way to send messages or do video calls. When we want to send notes/corrections to each other, we just send them as a message through Signal so I can always look at my phone to remind myself of new words that came up during the call. So far, I'm liking this a lot more than what I used to do, which was taking notes on actual paper that would then get immediately lost.

In preparation for today's LE, I read a few articles from the magazine Focus (they're available online) like this one describing how brutal life was for working kids during the Industrial Revolution in 19th century England. I also read a Focus article about World Toilet Day. I've found that since I work from home and don't really go out much these days, talking about what I did that week takes about 2 seconds :lol: so it's good to have some interesting articles to use as a springboard for discussion.

lusan wrote:Sorry, but I think people care if they want to speak well. Otherwise...


I think you might have misunderstood what I meant. I don't mean that nobody else should care, only that I don't want to care if I make some stupid little mistakes using the wrong past tense. In the past when I would get really frustrated that I was making these mistakes it led to me hating Italian and language learning, in general. That's the reason I stopped for 2 years. I'm prone to performance anxiety and I grew up in an environment where making mistakes (or doing anything imperfectly) was not tolerated so focusing too much on my mistakes just causes my brain to shut down in protest, it doesn't lead to improvements.

The truth is I don't have to learn Italian. I'm doing it because I want to communicate with people who don't speak English. They appreciate that I'm putting in so much work and they couldn't care less if I use the wrong past tense because they still know exactly what I mean. If they don't care, I shouldn't either. If at some point I can narrate lengthy stories consistently using all the correct tenses, that will be awesome. In the meantime, I'm not going to stress about it. Not to go off on a tangent, but alcohol is credited with helping people to loosen up and speak foreign languages better precisely because it allows them to not care about making mistakes. So I can't claim credit for this philosophy of not caring, it's already well-established!
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Re: è un po che non ci vediamo

Postby lusan » Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:26 pm

StringerBell wrote:I think you might have misunderstood what I meant. I don't mean that nobody else should care, only that I don't want to care if I make some stupid little mistakes using the wrong past tense. In the past when I would get really frustrated that I was making these mistakes it led to me hating Italian and language learning, in general. That's the reason I stopped for 2 years. I'm prone to performance anxiety and I grew up in an environment where making mistakes (or doing anything imperfectly) was not tolerated so focusing too much on my mistakes just causes my brain to shut down in protest, it doesn't lead to improvements.


Sorry. I didn't understand.
Mistakes are part of the journey,
and help us to improve as well
as make the journey more interesting.

StringerBell wrote:The truth is I don't have to learn Italian. I'm doing it because I want to communicate with people who don't speak English. They appreciate that I'm putting in so much work and they couldn't care less if I use the wrong past tense because they still know exactly what I mean. If they don't care, I shouldn't either. If at some point I can narrate lengthy stories consistently using all the correct tenses, that will be awesome. In the meantime, I'm not going to stress about it. Not to go off on a tangent, but alcohol is credited with helping people to loosen up and speak foreign languages better precisely because it allows them to not care about making mistakes. So I can't claim credit for this philosophy of not caring, it's already well-established!


Indeed. I think I read somewhere that stress hurt learning.
I don't need Italian either, I just find it beautiful so...
I give it plenty of care.

Alcohol good for learning? No sure. Maybe for loosening the tongue
of shy people... I prefer the sentence repetition exercises that I do everyday!
Ciao!
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StringerBell
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Re: è un po che non ci vediamo

Postby StringerBell » Thu Nov 25, 2021 6:16 pm

lusan wrote:Sorry. I didn't understand.


No worries! Language learning for me is as much a lesson in psychology as it is about language acquisition.

People talk about how there is no one size fits all approach, and for me that is especially true. For most people, a language immersion where they are "forced" to use the language all the time results in them learning very quickly. I, on the other hand, have the opposite reaction. My subconscious rebels if I feel like I'm forced to do something so I have to find ways to trick myself - or at least, find a way to genuinely believe that I'm doing something because I want to, not because I have to. Every time I consider creating a language speaking challenge for myself I realize that it's a terrible idea because it will quickly lead to me feeling forced to speak and then I won't be able to. Right now, I often find myself spontaneously talking in Italian but the presence of a speaking challenge would totally destroy that desire and I'd end up being mute for most of the day. It's counterintuitive, but somehow feeling like I don't need to care about speaking or practicing makes me really want to do it more.

There is some more good news to report: today I have no problem remembering siccità!

I also watched a few Cuore di Cioccolato YT videos. I always love watching him since he tends to do some really fun, out of the box stuff and isn't afraid to show failures. In the video Olio di Oliva fatto in casa he demonstrated the whole process of picking wild olives and using a press to try to extract the oil. From 3 kilos of olives he got a few spoonfuls of oil, so not a resounding success! I did learn the word frantoio which is both the place where you bring olives to be pressed for oil and the actual device that presses them (though what he used at home was una pressa, not un frantoio. I will probably never have occasion to use this word (pity) but I seem to have no trouble remembering it. In discussing the video I also learned the word fecce (dregs), though il fondo can also be used to mean dregs in some situations.
Last edited by StringerBell on Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: è un po che non ci vediamo

Postby rdearman » Thu Nov 25, 2021 8:41 pm

Why do you watch the English channel. You know he does the whole thing in Italian right?
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StringerBell
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Re: è un po che non ci vediamo

Postby StringerBell » Thu Nov 25, 2021 10:02 pm

rdearman wrote:Why do you watch the English channel.


Whoops, my bad. I don't watch in English. Hopefully I fixed it so it links to the right one in Italian. Good catch!
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lusan
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Re: è un po che non ci vediamo

Postby lusan » Fri Nov 26, 2021 12:25 am

StringerBell wrote:I also watched a few Cuore di Cioccolato YT videos. I always love watching him since he tends to do some really fun, out of the box stuff and isn't afraid to show failures. In the video Olio di Oliva fatto in casa he demonstrated the whole process of picking wild olives and using a press to try to extract the oil. From 3 kilos of olives he got a few spoonfuls of oil, so not a resounding success! I did learn the word frantoio which is both the place where you bring olives to be pressed for oil and the actual device that presses them (though what he used at home was una pressa, not un frantoio. I will probably never have occasion to use this word (pity) but I seem to have no trouble remembering it. In discussing the video I also learned the word fecce (dregs), though il fondo can also be used to mean dregs in some situations.


Wao!... Adesso capisco perchè l'olio d'oliva è così caro. Grazie!
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StringerBell
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Re: è un po che non ci vediamo

Postby StringerBell » Sat Nov 27, 2021 1:22 pm

I had another good LE yesterday. I struggled more with verb conjugations when I was telling some stories about things I used to do with my friends when we were kids. The good news is that I seemed to used the correct tense (mostly l'imperfetto) but I struggled sometimes when conjugating for "we" in imperfetto. That's something that's often more difficult for me than conjugating for "I" or "you" since I use those pretty frequently. I should probably find a way to practice those seldom-used (by me) conjugations a little more.

Ieri ho guardato la seconda stagione di Il Rei delle Tigri. Era un macello ma no riuscivo a distogliere lo sguardo.

I really enjoy working macello into conversations. My husband and I were discussing how to translate "dumpster fire" and that was the closest he could come up with. Translating slang is often difficult because usually there's no direct translation so it can be fun to hash out how to express a similar idea even imperfectly. I've found a few times that when there's not really an Italian word that works usually there's either a dialetto word or a local regional Italian word that does. I'm never sure if it's worth learning those because I can't use them if I'm talking to people from outside his province and then I have to sandbox those words in my mind so they don't come out if talking to someone from another part of Italy.
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Re: è un po che non ci vediamo

Postby StringerBell » Tue Nov 30, 2021 11:35 pm

I had a great LE today where I was able to use a new word that I just learned a few days ago: tamarri (trashy). My friend was describing her trashy, dirtbag neighbors who scream all the time, leave garbage around, have various vehicles rusting away in the backyard, and are just a total nightmare. I was so excited to be able to work that word into the conversation! It's awesome when that happens organically.

I'm trying to figure out what I want to do with reading. I have one book that's basically chic lit (my most hated genre) that I'm trying to make use of. I've been reading just a tiny bit until I find an expression that I want to use, I stop reading, and for the next few days practice using that expression in a variety of contexts sometimes out loud and sometimes in my head. I'm not making much progress with the book but I'm really starting to expand what I can say, so I'm thinking that it might actually be more useful to keep doing this. In some cases, I'm choosing expressions that I've come across many times and know what they mean but have never felt confident using them, myself, in conversation. One of these expressions is: mi sono resa conto (I realized). I don't know why I never dared use that one in the past but this week I've been saying it nonstop.

I have a difficult love-hate(mostly just hate) relationship with Anki. In the past, every time I've used it I would just end up frustrated and then delete all my decks and vow to never use it again. I'm trying to see if I can finally figure out a way to use it *very* sparingly to avoid stimulating the flashcard hate again. So right now I only make a card when I find a sentence that I'd really like to be able to say. I think the key is to avoid making too many cards because there is nothing worse than repeatedly seeing hundreds of cards ready for review.

lusan wrote:Wao!... Adesso capisco perchè l'olio d'oliva è così caro. Grazie!


Hopefully the commercial olive oil producers are able to extract the oil more efficiently!
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StringerBell
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Re: è un po che non ci vediamo

Postby StringerBell » Sun Dec 05, 2021 3:12 pm

I had another great LE 3 days ago. I've gotten into a routine with my LEPs where part of the call we chit chat about our week and for the rest of the call we discuss an article that we read ahead of time. So last week's Italian article was discussing guidelines for improving composition in photography since one LEP is a graphic designer. I was very familiar with the topic since I have a lot of experience with film photography/developing, but discussing it in Italian was challenging. So far, the way I've been going about this:

-My partner sends me an article in Italian.
-I read the article, looking up any words I don't know.
-I read all (or most) of the article out loud.
-I write a few paragraphs summarizing the article and giving some feedback (my opinion, my experiences, my thoughts in general). I try to use a few words, phrases, or constructions that are new to me from the article or are things I understand easily but have never felt comfortable using, myself from a separate list that I've been creating.
-I discuss the article with my husband and/or I ask him to correct what I've written.
-I discuss the article with my LEP.

So far it seems that by doing all this prep work when I finally discuss the article with my LEP I'm able to have really interesting discussions that are far more fluid and boundary-pushing than what I'd be able to do if I just read the article once and then tried to talk about it off the cuff. If I didn't have easy access to a native speaker at home then I could see discussing the same article with two different LEPs.

*******

I decided to do the remaining 2 EdX Wellesley Italian courses. I did the beginner one a couple of years ago to fill in my basic grammar gaps. It was such a fantastic course, really astounding how well done it was. I totally forgot that that was an intermediate and an advanced level course still to do so I figured I might as well do them now.

While most of the material is very familiar (so far the focus is on reflexive verbs) it's helped me to see where some of my verb conjugation ability is lacking. I've been going a little crazy with putting both sentences that I want to be able to say quickly without thinking and zillions of verb conjugations on Anki cards, so I've already violated my rule of making cards sparingly. :? I'm hoping that if I end up making a crazy number of cards I can just delete or ignore the edX deck rather than getting disgusted with Anki again and giving up on it all together.
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Re: è un po che non ci vediamo

Postby rdearman » Sun Dec 05, 2021 5:14 pm

Just put a limit on the Anki cards to 10 a day max or something and 5 new cards max. You can make a million but it will only show you 15.
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