Trying to take it easy

[luke]

Isn't Destinos the Spanish equivalent?

Are you asking me or telling me?

There's "Learn Spanish with Extra". It has 10 videos and a story that reminds me a little of the American sitcom Friends. (French in Action had about 50 videos). Don't know if Extra has audio recordings, teaching manuals, workbooks, etc, as FiA did. If you search ÿoutube for "Learn Spanish with Extra", you'll find the episodes.

I'm not sold on either of the copycats.

[Le Baron]

There's "Learn Spanish with Extra". It has 10 videos and a story that reminds me a little of the American sitcom Friends. (French in Action had about 50 videos). Don't know if Extra has audio recordings, teaching manuals, workbooks, etc, as FiA did. If you search ÿoutube for "Learn Spanish with Extra", you'll find the episodes.

I'm not sold on either of the copycats.

I think I had a look at that some time ago. It was probably mentioned here. It seemed like a children's programme. I did try an episode, but the people were acting strange and I lost my patience. I might also be a bit more advanced than what is in the episodes. I say 'might be', I don't want to be bumptious. Though I listen to ordinary Spanish podcasts.

[BeaP]

I keep seeing this praise of French Of Action, which I've never seen and which is not of much use to me I'd imagine, yet if there was an analogue for this in Spanish I could just get on with it from a single resource (and maybe a little grammar book) and find focus again.

There's nothing like FIA, and I highly doubt that there ever will be. It combines two very important things: 1) an experienced and extremely talented teacher, 2) unlimited financial resources.

In some more detail:

1) things taught in the best possible order for most, constant repetition built-in, emphasis on communication and pronunciation, sees the student as an intelligent person, but takes full responsibility for teaching

Each 30-minute episode is extremely dense, full of information and visual help to retain the information. Everything is presented in the most enjoyable and interesting way possible. The audio is based on collocations, words frequently used together. You repeat them as one piece, and you often change these blocks in a sentence, not words to create new sentences.

2) shootings in France with a lot of characters, extracts from movies and TV commercials

The editing must have been an immense job. Each episode starts with a 5-10-minute scene with the characters. Nowadays when there's a video material for a textbook, it's usually some cringy unnatural conversation in a room, boring as hell. In FIA we go to the Sorbonne, the Jardin du Luxembourg, and so on. We move around, get to know the culture. When we learn a new concept, we see graphics, and when we learn a new word or expression, it's presented with several sample sentences and pictures (they usually show situations), scenes from movies and commercials.

Destinos unfortunately lacks the first factor. Although the money was spent, it's really like a stupid telenovela: the information is presented and repeated in a way that seems almost random, you feel that you don't get much out of it.

The only way to make something like FIA today would be a project financed by a government. No-one can earn enough money with this, it's not lucrative.

Some say that FIA is outdated (pre-internet, pre-mobile phone), but I don't agree. It teaches the basic things really well, and you can get the modern slang and the phone stuff from watching one series on Netflix.

Spanish is a widely studied language, but it has very problematic resources. The equivalent of FIA is not the only thing missing, I also miss the CLÉ books. There's nothing good and really effective for autodidacts, although some coursebooks and DELE preparation materials are excellent. The famous Uso grammar is OK, but the Anaya en line is rather poor in my opinion, especially the vocabulary books. There are the usual programmes like Assimil or Teach yourself, but nothing really unique, really outstanding. I myself don't know for sure what I'd learn from if I started Spanish again.

[Le Baron]

Spanish is a widely studied language, but it has very problematic resources. The equivalent of FIA is not the only thing missing, I also miss the CLÉ books. There's nothing good and really effective for autodidacts, although some coursebooks and DELE preparation materials are excellent. The famous Uso grammar is OK, but the Anaya en line is rather poor in my opinion, especially the vocabulary books. There are the usual programmes like Assimil or Teach yourself, but nothing really unique, really outstanding. I myself don't know for sure what I'd learn from if I started Spanish again.

This is something I didn't know originally. Since I learned French in a sot of naturalistic way from an early age - almost entirely conversationally and reading comics - I never felt a need to use any books or anything, a boring story I've related before. When I moved to Belgium and was working I saw I needed to sharpen-up my lazy grammar quite a bit, so I did use some of those CLE. The Grammaire Progressive, the 'perfectionnement' one, and some other bits and pieces. There is a lot to choose from and it's something I'd never seen in any other language I've attempted.

I always imagined that Spanish might have similar resources, but it seems not to be the case. Sometimes they're just harder to find. At the Instituto Cervantes they showed me a lot of resources. In fact they gave me a free coursebook when I started from scratch called 'Caminos'. All the audio material and other extras are available for download on a little website. So I started on that. This is from Dutch and the only problem I've ever found is that they explain words that are not really a problem for English-speakers, since similar (French- or Latin-derived) words already exist in the lexicon. Aside from that I found it very useful to get going.

I think you're right though. The available Spanish grammars, for example, are nothing like those available for French.

[BeaP]

This is from Dutch and the only problem I've ever found is that they explain words that are not really a problem for English-speakers, since similar (French- or Latin-derived) words already exist in the lexicon. Aside from that I found it very useful to get going.

This is a good point I forgot to mention. Some bilingual resources can be good, and I think it can be useful to do research and see what's available in one's native language or (second best) anything else one speaks on a C level. Who knows? We can find hidden treasures if we're lucky.

[DaveAgain]

Isn't Destinos the Spanish equivalent?

Are you asking me or telling me?

Both!

[einzelne]

I always imagined that Spanish might have similar resources, but it seems not to be the case.

<...>

I think you're right though. The available Spanish grammars, for example, are nothing like those available for French.

There is a series Gramática de Uso del Español by Luís Aragonés.

PS. Moreover, this series is also available in English from McGraw-Hill Education.

[BeaP]

There is a series Gramática de Uso del Español by Luís Aragonés.
PS. Moreover, this series is also available in English from McGraw-Hill Education.

Yes, it's the only famous one similar to the CLE books. Theres's also Anaya en: https://www.anayaele.es/anaya-ele-en And there are some books from enclave ELE, but I haven't seen these, because they're all for beginners. This publisher seems to have teamed up with CLE to produce similar textbooks for Spanish, which is a pity, because they have a lot of books with bad reviews. They're certainly not among the best publishers. However, these books might be good. https://enclave-ele.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=291&Itemid=278

I agree that Uso is worth having a look at. But in my opinion it's not outstandingly good and it's huge (difficult to handle). The instruction part is well-done, but the explanations are quite long, not schematic (as opposed to Progressive). This might be an advantage for beginner learners, but for me it's a disadvantage. It's not in proportion with the few exercises that are always based on sentences, never on texts. The exercises are rather poor, and they don't really help to retain things. Moreover, I don't feel that it wants to help me in any other way than grammar. Progressive also improves vocabulary a lot through the exercises, and the other CLE books are multi-faceted as well. When I use a CLE book, I feel that every word is there for a reason, it's all though out. I regularly start working with Uso, and I always put it back on the shelf.

My problem is that I often lose my motivation if a resource is not outstanding from at least one aspect. They need to have 'personality', a kind of spark, creativity from the part of the writer. The other option is meticulous professionalism, which I also appreciate a lot. I need to like my resources, it's not good if I'm cold towards them, and I just use them. For me a good textbook is like a piece of art. I know it sounds like a lot (even weird?), but actually if you think about it, it should be a common thing. Textbooks should serve us, they need to help us learn in every possible way. This is another topic, but I often feel that things are a bit upside down. Failure is regularly blamed on the student, never on the resource or the teacher. I think the student can't be blamed: a textbook needs to be able to hold our attention and motivate us.

Access to English for example is a 4-volume textbook based on a story with the same characters. It's very interesting, and the characters are vivid and likeable. You don't want to stop, you want to reach the next unit to get to know what happens to them. The drawings are illustrations of the stories or the grammar exercises (that also often include the characters.) In contrast to this, a lot of textbooks are just a collage of newspaper clippings, e-mails, tourist phrasebook dialogues, train tickets and menus. I know it's an exaggeration that anyone could make one with some glue and scissors, but I hope you see my point. They don't want to appeal, be unique, they don't have a personality.

A lot of textbooks are like the result of some obligatory exercise that even the authors hated to do. They were happy when they were finished and they couldn't care less if we used these resources on the long run or not. I have this feeling very often: that the authors (teachers) don't care about me at all, they don't want me to learn, because my failure/success doesn't matter. I'm not sentimental about it, I just don't learn from these types of books, because if you don't care about me, I don't care about you. Earn your money elsewhere. The CLE books are outstanding because of their effectiveness. You know you're using your time and energy well, and this makes you go on, keeps you motivated.

(I know it's partly personal taste, and others like resources that I'm indifferent about. But they do like them, and it's very important.)

[BeaP]

I keep seeing this praise of French Of Action, which I've never seen and which is not of much use to me I'd imagine, yet if there was an analogue for this in Spanish I could just get on with it from a single resource (and maybe a little grammar book) and find focus again.

You're not in a time loop, don't worry. I've been just thinking about Spanish resources some more.

Francisca Castro Viúdez: Aprende Gramática y Vocabulario
This has some advantages of CLE: B5, short units, effectiveness. The exercises are also based on texts, not just sentences. Disadvantages: the vocabulary part is too small (26 units grammar vs 10 units vocabulary), doesn't have audio or any kind of communicative exercises. A1-B2 levels. I haven't found it on the publisher's website, there's a new version coming out. But it's still available everywhere else online.

The same author has written grammar books for Edelsa. These are quite similar, but don't contain texts and vocabulary chapters.
https://edelsa.es/catalogo_Uso_gramatica_espanola.php

The Anaya en books are actually not that bad, vocabulary is OK up to B1 (has audio), grammar is good all along, C1-C2 is even very good. I've linked them is the previous post. Just don't expect too much. They're nothing like CLE.

The best publisher for coursebooks is Difusión, but their coursebooks are very hard to use on your own. They're interesting, motivating and it's easy to find the answer key, but you have to juggle with a book, a workbook, a website with videos and audios and a teacher's book. At least. (There are also pdfs to project and sheets to copy.) And it's constant jumping from this to that. I hated it, although the materials were superb. I think that I would have reached a very solid high level in speaking and writing if I had been able to finish just one book on each level. I'm sad to admit that I couldn't even finish one unit at a go.

On the other hand, Difusión DELE books can be useful. https://www.difusion.com/tienda/las-claves-del-nuevo-dele-b2/ They're much better for home study, and they are half textbook (5 units), half DELE preparation (5 exams). Up to C1 DELE exams contain a lot of useful everyday expressions, and the exercises are really good. It's not an endless chaos with project assignments and group discussion like the coursebooks.

I'll bring you back in the loop if I remember something else.

[PeterMollenburg]

My French journey so far
I don't really like the French language, although I like the country and the people very much. I didn't plan to study French, but I accidentally bumped into a French in Action video, and ended up watching mot of them multiple times. I have the first workbook, but I haven't done the exercises in it, I've only worked with the videos, the transcription and the audio. For me French in Action is the best language learning programme ever made (with Access to English as a close second). Just paying attention to these videos and doing the repetition exercises with the audio made me an independent learner (I think that's the main goal of the programme), I speak confidently, with limited vocabulary, but relatively well, I understand most TV series and can read popular fiction. This is genius (not me, Capretz), I've reached every goal of a beginner resource with the videos and the audio only.

I keep seeing this praise of French Of Action, which I've never seen and which is not of much use to me I'd imagine, yet if there was an analogue for this in Spanish I could just get on with it from a single resource (and maybe a little grammar book) and find focus again.

I keep seeing this praise of French Of Action, which I've never seen and which is not of much use to me I'd imagine, yet if there was an analogue for this in Spanish I could just get on with it from a single resource (and maybe a little grammar book) and find focus again.

Isn't Destinos the Spanish equivalent?

Destinos: An introduction to Spanish is most definitely the French in Action equivalent. Both were funded by the Annenberg/CPB Project, whatever that is, and created out of projects based in the United States (although the two series were not filmed there predominantly - some of Destinos was when the story took place there). Both contain 52 video episodes. Both have hefty workbooks and textbooks to go with the series, as well as audio (originally on cassette).

Like perhaps a good number of members of LLorg I've used some of these courses, in my case both FIA and Destinos up to around lesson 26 for each. I see that BeaP is keen on FIA but in my experience despite being quite a fan of FIA, I actually preferred Destinos. It's a very decent course, so much so that I often rate it my favourite all round comprehensive course in any language. I just found FIA's immersion approach not quite as smooth as the Destinos approach (more relaxed on the immersion thing).

Another interesting language learning piece of info - Destinos had a follow on series called Nuevos Destinos in which Raquel, the main character returns for I think 15 episodes of a new series, which is like an extension or recap of the old series with a twist (I'm guessing somewhat - I've not watched it). This series had four courses of different target groups created for it that could each be used in conjuction with the series, again, at least this is how I understood it. All four were hefty courses (not your Colloquial or Hugo type courses) as far as I could tell, and were called:
1. Intensive & High Beginner Courses
2. Intermediate Grammar Review Courses
3. Con destino à la communicación
4. Espanol para hispanohablantes