Trying to take it easy

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BeaP
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Re: Trying to take it easy

Postby BeaP » Fri Jun 10, 2022 12:03 pm

PeterMollenburg wrote: I actually preferred Destinos. It's a very decent course, so much so that I often rate it my favourite all round comprehensive course in any language. I just found FIA's immersion approach not quite as smooth as the Destinos approach (more relaxed on the immersion thing).

Thanks for the long post and all that information. I've seen approximately 20 episodes from Destinos, and for me it felt like a cross between a telenovela and a graded reader. There was no instructor, and it contained much more immersion than 'teaching'. Maybe my problem was that I didn't use the textbook at all (I don't even have it), and after a while I thought I'd benefit more from normal native materials. But I remember it was pleasant until I reached a relatively high level that opened more possibilities. I prefer the FIA videos because the instruction (at least the gist) is already there in the videos. Destinos from this aspect didn't seem complete or systematic for me. But I see your point and I agree that it was more relaxed.

Nowadays it's crazy to look at these materials. I don't know either what this Annenberg project is, but I remember I was shocked when the woman went from Mexico to Spain, and they even shot some scenes inside the Prado. That was a really good episode with all that information about the paintings. For me the cultural aspect of a course is very important, and both FIA and Destinos are fantastic from this point of view. I'm watching Dix pour cent on Netflix, and it's amazing that FIA could present the same thing, the typical costumes, gestures, behaviours, lifestyles in the form of a language course, before the internet. I'd really like to know how much money went into these projects.
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Le Baron
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Re: Trying to take it easy

Postby Le Baron » Fri Jun 10, 2022 1:23 pm

I suppose one can't have everything to one's tastes, but I'm less keen on heavy didacticism, though I do like teaching/grammar points and guidance. However I don't like materials where they are constantly interrupting the flow to hammer what seem like unimportant points. One might argue that these are actually important, but the student doesn't know it, yet when I look back I've seen this so many times and it transpired that the teaching points were indeed inexplicably trivial.

So I do have some trepidation about embarking upon these long, intense courses that might have entire episodes hammering a handful of concepts. And only get going halfway through. Considering I've managed to get functional on materials that are much lighter and faster. Then it's just a matter of additions and refining.

I have a plan anyway. I will take a test after my holiday and gauge what my levels are in Spanish. Then I will work out where to start without having to waste time on stuff I already know. As BeaP's post further up stated, which started this line of thought, I actually wish I'd followed one single thorough course from the beginning. In that respect I would now not be bothered by the irritation of possibly having to fill holes that should have been filled in the beginning.
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Re: Trying to take it easy

Postby einzelne » Fri Jun 10, 2022 8:05 pm

BeaP wrote:My problem is that I often lose my motivation if a resource is not outstanding from at least one aspect. They need to have 'personality', a kind of spark, creativity from the part of the writer. The other option is meticulous professionalism, which I also appreciate a lot. I need to like my resources, it's not good if I'm cold towards them, and I just use them. For me a good textbook is like a piece of art. I know it sounds like a lot (even weird?), but actually if you think about it, it should be a common thing.


As someone who discovered the pedagogical beauty of LLPSI, I'd say that it doesn't sound weird at all, at least to me!

I loved CLE books, although, since I don't need active French skills, I didn't do them systematically. I know nothing about Spanish textbooks especially in English but, as I decided to dabble with it this summer, I was really disappointed with Assimil books. It's the first time I found them so uninspiring and pedagogically poor. I found Olly Richard's 101 Conversations in Spanish really enjoying — a continuous mystery story in the form of dialogue. I keep a short grammar reference book next to me but, since it's my third Romance language, the process is rather smooth. But if for some reason I decide to delve really deep into Spanish, I would definitely check the sources you mention, so thank you!
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Re: Trying to take it easy

Postby MaggieMae » Wed Jun 15, 2022 9:39 am

BeaP wrote:Updates on Spanish
I've regretted learning through input almost exclusively a million times. In a way my brain is convinced that I'm finished, and I feel a constant urge to move on to another language. Although I still like working on speaking and writing, the joy of exploration is absent in my routine, and I miss a lot of things that I love about language learning. I'm sure I will succeed somehow, but I needed to plan things again, because I want to get back the pleasure.


You're speaking directly to my soul here. My teacher just today reminded me that my academic German skills are already very similar to, or better than, native speakers who have little to no higher education. I can get around here just fine for daily stuff, and even doctor appointments and the like are using very little English. So the motivation I had from wanting to understand and be understood is nearly gone.

So now I'm looking into resources for Chinese, since I'm nearly certain that Chinese won't confuse my German as I prepare for exams. ;) :lol: I just need to feel like I'm progressing at something, instead of stagnating. I'm hoping a little progress in another language will help the self confidence enough for the anxiety weasels in my brain to calm down and let me start progressing in German again.
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BeaP
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Re: Trying to take it easy

Postby BeaP » Wed Jun 15, 2022 10:06 am

MaggieMae wrote:So now I'm looking into resources for Chinese, since I'm nearly certain that Chinese won't confuse my German as I prepare for exams. ;) :lol: I just need to feel like I'm progressing at something, instead of stagnating. I'm hoping a little progress in another language will help the self confidence enough for the anxiety weasels in my brain to calm down and let me start progressing in German again.

I think it's a good idea. Time management might be harder, but it helps to recognise or re-discover learning techniques that might be useful in German as well. You can use the practical experience you gain when learning Chinese, or maybe you find a resource that is based on a very good method and lights some bulbs about language learning in general.
Another possibility is that 'the good old comfortable German' becomes more appealing. Like a second home.
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BeaP
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Re: Trying to take it easy

Postby BeaP » Wed Jul 06, 2022 8:58 pm

Book 11: Ave Barrera: Restauración (248 pp.)

Horror seems to be a popular genre in Latin-America, especially among female authors like Mariana Enríquez, Mónica Ojeda, María Fernanda Ampuero, Selva Almada, Samantha Schweblin or Ave Barrera. I've read some short stories from Mariana Enríquez and now this novel, but based on this little I suspect that the concept of horror is very different there. Horror is not a dark figure behind a door or a monster but existence itself, the reality of the people. Normality is horror. (And it includes co-existence with the dead.)

The novel's main character is a young woman in a toxic relationship. The man asks her to renovate an old house that belongs to his family and through the objects in the house the woman learns about another couple (the one who lived in the house) and their story foreshadows an unhappy future for her. Will she stay in the doomed relationship?

The short chapters jump between the past and the present. This creates the effect of a shared fate, that every woman has the same problems. Women sacrifice themselves for men, they are tortured and humiliated by them, and they don't need to tell their story to each other, because they have the same story, they know what the other is going through. On top of this, women are often cruel with each other as well.

Good: Ave Barrera is a good story-teller. Most of the time the book is a page-turner.

Can be bad:
Relatively long descriptions. (Although I thought their inclusion was justified. The book describes the concept of a novel that shows things with the help of photographs. Descriptions and lists have this photo-like effect.)
Unnecessarily refined language (especially concerning the genre). C1 level. This together with references to Farabeuf by Salvador Elizondo (a sado-erotic novel) and some philosophical questions can have the effect of showing off or aiming too high. It tries hard to be too clever, to be highbrow literature.
Very direct and obvious metaphors: house - prison - housewife, house - womb, Blue Beard, secret room. (These have been done a million times in novels and movies.)
In spite of the directness when you reach the end you don't know exactly what happened, and you're much more confused than 30 pages before. The clumsy (and unnecessarily poetical and obscure) ending also destroys the emotional effect the book had before. It's a well-constructed (I'd even say over-constructed and visibly artificial) novel and a salad at the same time.

Mexican vocabulary? Some, but it's not characteristic.

Dix pour cent (Netflix)

I've watched all the 4 seasons, in French with French subtitles. I've found it extremely entertaining and intelligent.
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Re: Trying to take it easy

Postby Lawyer&Mom » Wed Jul 06, 2022 11:12 pm

I just finished the last episode of Dix pour cent last night. Such a satisfying ending! (So of course there is talk of a movie and a fifth season!)
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Le Baron
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Re: Trying to take it easy

Postby Le Baron » Thu Jul 07, 2022 12:04 am

I thought the book looked promising until I got to: "can be bad..."
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BeaP
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Re: Trying to take it easy

Postby BeaP » Sat Jul 30, 2022 4:07 pm

This year I’ve already read several books in Spanish (although I obviously won’t reach the number I set as a goal) and I came to the conclusion that reading doesn’t really improve my general knowledge unless I take notes of the new words and study them in some way. I have no idea how anyone can learn vocabulary only by reading books. I went back to studying from textbooks again and started to read in any language the book I’m drawn to has been written in. First English.

Book 12: Jennifer Egan: The Keep (240 pp.)

This is a very strange, haunting novel with two plots that get united by the end. A man is visiting his cousin in Central Europe to help him renovate an old castle that might have ghosts, and another man is attending a creative writing class in an American prison.

This book requires a very active reader. You don't just fill it with deductions and understanding, you fill it with your emotions, system of values and knowledge about the world. What you think about the novel tells more about you than about the novel itself. I’d even say that this novel requires a discussion. For me it seems to be a cleverly constructed web of motifs, like a maze with repetitions and variations that kind of reflect on each other. The novel works on several levels, and you can always go deeper, you can always find small details that can change the 'interpretation'. It's like a puzzle that you can solve alone of course, but it's more fun together.

Book 13: Abrams- Dorst: S (456 pp.)

I became interested in ergodic literature last year, and have been collecting everything that belongs to the genre ever since. Ergodic literature in my interpretation is a cross between literature and narrative board games. These books consist of different parts (various narrators, genres), objects (maps, letters, hand-written notes), drawings, photos, and constitute a kind of puzzle for the reader. (Google this book for pictures, and you’ll see.) S takes the shape of an old library book by a mysterious author. Two university students, a girl and a boy want to solve the mystery: who was this writer and what happened to him. They write their commentaries and messages to each other on the margins, and slowly start to talk about themselves. It’s impossible to define what this book is about, but it clearly presents that people have very similar joys and problems, and when we read read literature we can’t really put our personality and life experience aside. The two students see their own feelings and challenges in the book and by talking about them they establish a deep intimacy.

Some other ergodic books:
Mark Z. Danielewski: House of Leaves
Nick Bantock: Griffin and Sabine
Steven Hall: The Raw Shark Texts
Marisha Pessl: Night film
and I've found one in Spanish: Max Aub: Juego de Cartas

I’ll write about the textbooks when I’ve finished one. No plans, no promises.
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BeaP
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Re: Trying to take it easy

Postby BeaP » Sat Aug 06, 2022 3:24 pm

Book 14: Claudia Piñeiro: Una suerte pequeña (240 pp.)

I became interested in the Argentinian writer, Claudia Piñeiro, because one of her novels, Elena knows, was on the Booker shortlist. The book I've read is about a woman who returns to Argentina from the US after 20 years because of a job. She's quite reluctant to return, tries to avoid meeting her old acquaintances and we soon discover that there's something in her past that basically made her flee.

This book isn't a mystery (although it makes you curious) but rather a drama about the life of a middle-class woman (probably typical from several aspects). It's sometimes a bit repetitive, but it's not a difficult read (B2), the style is often close to periodistic and the plot kept me engaged. I've found it quite similar in its effect to the book I've read by Rosa Montero. I liked it, but I didn't love it, and I don't really think that I'll read other books from Piñeiro (one Montero book was enough as well), because for me it was like something written for an advanced creative writing class: very good (although not without flaws), but uninspired, like a project executed. Although the middle of the book was quite emotional, by the end it lost all its emotional impact for me and I could only ask myself: 'And what was the point of all this?'
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