Love and Portuguese

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SophiaMerlin_II
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21-23 Nov 2021

Postby SophiaMerlin_II » Wed Nov 24, 2021 1:59 am

Feeling immensely blackpilled at the moment.

  • Anki x2
  • 2 AnCap Videos
  • Translate one Meme
  • 2 Sections Portuguese Textbook
  • 5 minutes of @Mises_Brasil AoD
  • One Chapter of Guerra e Paz (I-4)
  • 2 Pronunciation Videos

On simple topics I know well, reading for understanding isn't as difficult as it probably should be, and the same for listening to topics I know well in videos. For example I was able to follow along with the first half of an AnCap video today about the differences between Capitalist and Communist theories of Value in relation to common household goods. I was actually able to learn something from the video, which I found cool.

I continue to have the same issue here that I did in both Spanish and Japanese, but don't have in English -- getting back on track when I feel confused. Once I get derailed I just guess I don't have the level of skill to correctly reorient myself. Since I'm somewhat hard of hearing, this is an absolutely essential skill for me in English that I use everyday.

By way of example, I often work in the shitty type of restaurant where you take orders over headsets. For the first 2-3 weeks I struggle to the point of being completely non-functional. This is because I can't really hear people. But in that sense, I can actually almost never hear people IRL anyway, not the way they are actually speaking, how other people would hear them. So basically I am learning to learn how to guess for these 3 weeks. After that, I am a superstar, and can turn any "OIDFgophoq periotgf" into a "#17 no sauce, extra ketchup" -- I just have to be able to know what words someone will probably say in some context, so I can match the parts I do hear to what they're likely to be saying. I also do a lot of error-correcting type behavior in English, like partial restatement, two or three types of rephrasing, etc.

Given that fact, I probably really need to work one-on-one with a tutor to develop these skills, or they're not going to get any better. The only issue I can see is that they seem like high level skills, and I'm not even sure I know how to explain to a tutor what I'm even talking about.

English, being my native language, I'm strong enough to know when I'm not quite understanding something. When I talk with my boyfriend I can see him not usually being able to notice it and me noticing it pretty quickly, when in either direction we are having a misunderstanding. I assume if I were able to speak Portuguese, our positions would be reversed. As a point of amusement, I do better with noticing miscommunication in Japanese versus Spanish because I find the body language more reliable in Japanese.

My Question--

I want to try to explain again, first because I'm exhausted, but also because I want to be clear about the type of skills I'm talking about, that I use multiple times in most conversations throughout the day:

  1. Reparative prompts that signal to speaker that I couldn't quite hear -- "Hmm?" "huh?"
  2. Physical gestures that show I couldn't hear/understand -- head tilt, confused face, point to my ear, incline my good ear towards them
  3. Subtle phrases to get someone to explain more -- "oh?" "is that so?"
  4. Partial restatement to get more context -- "you went to the store?" "it was expensive?"
  5. Rephrasing -- "when I went to the store" -> "When you went shopping"
  6. Partially retelling a story using different words to prompt correction if I'm misunderstanding the point of the story -- "When I went to the store, I was bit by a dog" --> "You got attacked by a dog while shopping?"

I can see how this is a complicated skill, but how would you explain what this is? Would I do best to just show this list of examples? I tried to list them in the order that I think is simplest to most difficult. Would you roughly agree with the order? I think probably 1-3 are reasonable at a low level, and maybe 4. It seems like 5 and especially 6 would be difficult at a low level because of lack of vocabulary and grasp of connotation.

AFAIK I never brought this up in my previous logs about Spanish or Japanese, more than in passing bc it's a bit embarrassing :oops: So any advice is appreciated.
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SophiaMerlin_II
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24 25 26 Nov 2021

Postby SophiaMerlin_II » Fri Nov 26, 2021 9:53 pm

Messaged a tutor & booked a package of lessons. I'm too nervous and shy so I'm just going to try to memorize some passages from Guerra e Paz with good pronunciation. After a while I hope to feel more comfortable and we can talk about other stuff, conversation practice, etc. First meeting is on the 8th.

One of the videos I watched was really interesting, so I had to ask him what it was called in English -- "Mexh Networking" apparently. I plan to look it up more, very cool concept.

I created a study plan, of sorts. It's a bit loose bc I'm changing my medicine, so I'm not sure what I'll really feel up to, honestly.

Watched a few videos about Joinville, Brazil, but they answered basically none of my questions. TBH I find Brazil a bit intimidating... He did tell me they have a version of the tamale there so it can't be all bad I suppose.

He continues to write & share the most romantic things... sometimes my little heart just cannot take it.

Pluralizing Portuguese. My textbook makes it out to be really complicated, but tomorrow I want to sit down and make a little chart because it seems to me that it's being overcomplicated a little bit.
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SophiaMerlin_II
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Re: Love and Portuguese

Postby SophiaMerlin_II » Sat Nov 27, 2021 3:15 pm

I read something in Spanish last night and my brain said, "hold on there bucko, something ain't right" :lol:
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SophiaMerlin_II
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27 28 Nov 2021

Postby SophiaMerlin_II » Sun Nov 28, 2021 9:25 pm

Just Anki & going over the 3rd prelim chapter again.

I'm getting to feel a bit stronger in my reading. I don't have to check as much as I used to (still do anyway, just to be sure), and I'm doing better reading memes and headlines.

Not sure when the book is going to cover it, but I need to just look at whatever kind of conjugation exists for "falou" and "pessoa" -- not sure how portuguese verbs work yet so IDK if they're going to reduce like I would expect in Spanish, (Falar, pessar? idk). but I see these and what I think are variations of these every 5 seconds, so I need to figure it out stat.

Also I guess "mas" means "but" and "dos" is some kind of comparative word.

But yeah, i've gotten to the point where when I read something in Spanish online it feels a bit weird. But we have a "grill book" at work, except we lost the English version, so I read the Spanish one when I get bored now. Context clues are helpful. I probably should set it aside until my Portuguese gets stronger, so I'm going to start bringing a book to work.
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SophiaMerlin_II
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08 Dec 2021

Postby SophiaMerlin_II » Wed Dec 08, 2021 9:55 pm

I haven't updated in a while, sorry.

Been watching more AnCap videos, dabbling a little in my textbook but nothing significant I guess.

Had my first lesson today... We were just doing pronunciation, but it was terrible. I did fine, I guess, but just I felt terrible the whole time. After 20 minutes, I started crying and had to end the lesson (30 mins) early.

My tutor was really sweet. She suggested we start with greetings and I'll go ahead and do that but it won't help my embarrassment any, because you still have to pronounce greetings.

My boyfriend thinks it's really silly that I'm taking lessons, because he didn't use any for learning English. But the idea of reacting this badly when I first try to speak Portuguese in Brazil would be really, really bad.

With my tutor, you know, I never have to talk to her again if I don't want. But in front of people that I'll see again? I would die.

He doesn't understand at all. Which hurts a bit. He thinks I'm wasting money. IDK maybe I am. But just the level of anxiety I have around this is just not normal, so I want to make an effort to get over it, so that it's just a cute level of embarrassment.

I'm just so, so insecure.

I don't feel this way in Spanish because I took 4 years of classes, and I don't feel this way in Japanese anymore because of living there for a while -- but when I used to (try to) take Japanese lessons it was the same. Just the fear and embarrassment. I like to just slowly go through stuff but tutors want to rush me because they want me to feel like I got my money's worth, I guess. Just... slow down, please.

I don't really want to learn greetings yet because I know then she's going to transition me into self introductions ... and the little "get to know you" conversations and everyone is always rushing into this. My Japanese tutor was like that, rushed me into "get to know you" conversations in like 2 lessons and I just couldn't take it. I had to cancel all my other lessons with her after that because I was so anxious I couldn't even join the Skype calls anymore.
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Re: Love and Portuguese

Postby BalancingAct » Thu Dec 09, 2021 1:18 am

You wrote you wanted to keep self-learning Portuguese a secret from him. But now you have shared your negative paid-lesson experience with him?
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Re: Love and Portuguese

Postby Van » Thu Dec 09, 2021 9:07 am

SophiaMerlin_II wrote: But just the level of anxiety I have around this is just not normal, so I want to make an effort to get over it, so that it's just a cute level of embarrassment.

Hi Sophia! Have you tried messaging tutors beforehand so they know the pace you want and what your worries are? I'm sure they'll be understanding.
I just wanted to say that you're not the only one with this kind of anxiety. I've always been very socially anxious and while under control now, was paralysing at times, so I can understand. My advice would be to try to have another lesson as soon as possible, because I know for me, the longer I let myself dwell on bad experiences, the harder it is to get back on the horse. Take care!
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SophiaMerlin_II
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Re: Love and Portuguese

Postby SophiaMerlin_II » Thu Dec 09, 2021 2:53 pm

BalancingAct wrote:You wrote you wanted to keep self-learning Portuguese a secret from him. But now you have shared your negative paid-lesson experience with him?


The sequence of events didn't go quite like that.

I was trying to keep me taking lessons a surprise but I'm not good at keeping secrets. When I told him, he teased me about it. Then after my lesson I told him it didn't go well.

Sorry if this was lacking context
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SophiaMerlin_II
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Re: Love and Portuguese

Postby SophiaMerlin_II » Thu Dec 09, 2021 2:55 pm

Van wrote:
SophiaMerlin_II wrote: But just the level of anxiety I have around this is just not normal, so I want to make an effort to get over it, so that it's just a cute level of embarrassment.

Hi Sophia! Have you tried messaging tutors beforehand so they know the pace you want and what your worries are? I'm sure they'll be understanding.
I just wanted to say that you're not the only one with this kind of anxiety. I've always been very socially anxious and while under control now, was paralysing at times, so I can understand. My advice would be to try to have another lesson as soon as possible, because I know for me, the longer I let myself dwell on bad experiences, the harder it is to get back on the horse. Take care!


I did message her a little about it before but no one ever understands. I have another lesson today, so I'm just gonna try again. I just have to keep trying until I get over it.
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Re: Love and Portuguese

Postby lingua » Thu Dec 09, 2021 5:23 pm

I realize it's not easy but when you're learning it's expected that you'll make mistakes. I think teachers understand that well. There's no need to be embarrassed. Relax and be patient with yourself.
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