Re: Yuurei's Language Log (ZH, KO, FR, JA, ES) [Now with more LR]

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Brun Ugle
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Re: Yuurei's Language Log (ZH, KO, FR, JA, ES)

Postby Brun Ugle » Sat Jan 20, 2018 7:47 am

A few years ago, I actually tried listening to the first Harry Potter book in Finnish after having studied Finnish for only a few weeks and I had no trouble following it in spite of the fact that Finnish is not a transparent language. I’m so familiar with Harry Potter that I always knew exactly what was going on even when I only actually knew a couple of words in each paragraph from before. I even noticed immediately when something was out of order because two tracks in the recording had gotten mixed up. So, I think familiarity with the book makes up for differences in the language.

Some years before that, I had listened to the first Harry Potter in Japanese and was excited because I understood everything. I thought I was finally starting to understand Japanese, but I later realized that it was because it was Harry Potter, and not because my Japanese had suddenly gotten good.

It looks like they are making new audiobooks of HP in Japanese and you can get them on Pottermore. Maybe I should try LRing HP in Japanese again as an easier way to try to learn Japanese for the bazillionth time. Hmmm. Maybe I will. But not until summer. I have too much other stuff right now. I should wait.
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Elenia
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Re: Yuurei's Language Log (ZH, KO, FR, JA, ES)

Postby Elenia » Sat Jan 20, 2018 7:14 pm

Brun Ugle wrote:It looks like they are making new audiobooks of HP in Japanese and you can get them on Pottermore. Maybe I should try LRing HP in Japanese again as an easier way to try to learn Japanese for the bazillionth time. Hmmm. Maybe I will. But not until summer. I have too much other stuff right now. I should wait.


I might join you then, using Pride and Prejudice - potentially in Spanish.
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Re: Yuurei's Language Log (ZH, KO, FR, JA, ES)

Postby hedgehog.chess » Sat Jan 20, 2018 7:41 pm

It seems that the beginning of the year belongs to L/R :) I also made my first attempt if someone is interested(altough I started at a different level): LINK. If not, sorry for disturbing your log Yuurei.
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Yuurei
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Re: Yuurei's Language Log (ZH, KO, FR, JA, ES)

Postby Yuurei » Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:17 pm

Iversen wrote:[...] but I'll just add that I made an experiment with Persian, where I actually felt that it might work. But I dropped the attempt because I couldn't find enough interesting sources with both an original spoken version and a transcript and a (good and loyal) translation - and because it would take oceans of time, which I couldn't muster with a full job schedule and my own small projects running at the same time..

That's cool, I didn't know you tried out LR as well! I read parts of your log over at HTLAL, but I'd be lying if I said I'd read all of it, so I must have missed that. Scarcity of appropriate LR material can definitely be a problem. I was considering the possibility of trying some Korean LR if the Italian experiment proves satisfying, but it seems like the Koreans don't do audio books - at all.

Brun Ugle wrote:A few years ago, I actually tried listening to the first Harry Potter book in Finnish after having studied Finnish for only a few weeks and I had no trouble following it in spite of the fact that Finnish is not a transparent language. I’m so familiar with Harry Potter that I always knew exactly what was going on even when I only actually knew a couple of words in each paragraph from before. I even noticed immediately when something was out of order because two tracks in the recording had gotten mixed up. So, I think familiarity with the book makes up for differences in the language.

Oh, that's interesting. I guess I can see that working - finally a way to profit from having been obsessed with Harry Potter while growing up! :lol:

Brun Ugle wrote:It looks like they are making new audiobooks of HP in Japanese and you can get them on Pottermore. Maybe I should try LRing HP in Japanese again as an easier way to try to learn Japanese for the bazillionth time. Hmmm. Maybe I will. But not until summer. I have too much other stuff right now. I should wait.

Fine, fine, I will not make you throw all your principles out of the window like myself. :D I'll look forward to the summer then! Who knows, if this experiment works well, I might join you for some further studies of the method. :)

Elenia wrote:
Brun Ugle wrote:It looks like they are making new audiobooks of HP in Japanese and you can get them on Pottermore. Maybe I should try LRing HP in Japanese again as an easier way to try to learn Japanese for the bazillionth time. Hmmm. Maybe I will. But not until summer. I have too much other stuff right now. I should wait.


I might join you then, using Pride and Prejudice - potentially in Spanish.

Ven al lado oscuro - ¡tenemos galletas!

hedgehog.chess wrote:It seems that the beginning of the year belongs to L/R :) I also made my first attempt if someone is interested(altough I started at a different level): LINK. If not, sorry for disturbing your log Yuurei.

Haha, you're not disturbing at all! Glad to see someone else doing LR - I'll definitely be keeping an eye on your log then.
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Re: Yuurei's Language Log (ZH, KO, FR, JA, ES)

Postby Elenia » Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:14 pm

Yuurei wrote:
Elenia wrote:I might join you then, using Pride and Prejudice - potentially in Spanish.

Ven al lado oscuro - ¡tenemos galletas!


So I get Finnish cookies and Spanish cookies? Count me in!
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Re: Yuurei's Language Log (ZH, KO, FR, JA, ES)

Postby Spoonary » Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:40 pm

You know, I might be tempted to join you all in summer, with HP in German maybe... I'm going to need dairy-free cookies though, as I have a milk intolerance :roll:
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Re: Yuurei's Language Log (ZH, KO, FR, JA, ES)

Postby jeff_lindqvist » Sun Jan 21, 2018 11:23 pm

Yuurei wrote:Glad to see someone else doing LR - I'll definitely be keeping an eye on your log then.


I try it now and then, but never really as intensively as intended (say, a couple of full listens during three-four days), nor have I found the material I really like. Except Dan Brown (which may work like HP did for Brun_Ugle).
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Yuurei
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Re: Yuurei's Language Log (ZH, KO, FR, JA, ES)

Postby Yuurei » Mon Jan 22, 2018 10:46 am

Italian Listening-Reading - First Impressions
After 5 hours, it's clearly still way too early to make any judgements of the efficacy of the method, but I thought I'd take a moment to talk about my impressions so far. First off, it's been very enjoyable. Before I started I thought it might be rather exhausting, especially in the beginning where I don't understand a lot, but that hasn't been the case at all. I've had no problem at all following the story - which may well be, as Brun Ugle pointed out, the result of my knowing the source material really, really well - and I also haven't had any problem following the audio closely and matching sound to written word. Overall, the process is very pleasant so far, and if I hadn't been unexpectedly busy this weekend I might well have spent a couple more hours LRing.
Another thing I noticed right from the start is that after each session (which I try to keep at at least 1.5 hours) my head is completely buzzing with random Italian words or phrases. On Friday night I LRed right before going to bed and when I woke up there was still random Italian in my head. In know that other LRers (at least Volte and hedgehog.chess) have experienced the same effect, so that seems to be normal. But I like it. :D Unfortunately, it more or less disappears when I switch gears to work on a different language. It makes me think that it really might be advantageous to try LR in its more traditional form of doing a lot of it in just a couple of days - without getting out of target language mode, so to speak. But, unfortunately, having a full-time job makes that rather difficult to realize.

Elenia wrote:So I get Finnish cookies and Spanish cookies? Count me in!
Spoonary wrote:You know, I might be tempted to join you all in summer, with HP in German maybe... I'm going to need dairy-free cookies though, as I have a milk intolerance :roll:

Ooh, excellent, we've already got quite the crowd. Summer is looking exciting.
Dairy-free cookies? No problem! My mother recently found this amazing vegan chocolate and the rest of the recipe is dairy-free anyway. I'm not sure whether you were maybe planning on coming to the gathering? Then I'd definitely make sure to bring the dairy-free variety. ;)

jeff_lindqvist wrote:I try it now and then, but never really as intensively as intended (say, a couple of full listens during three-four days), nor have I found the material I really like. Except Dan Brown (which may work like HP did for Brun_Ugle).

Ah, now that you mention it, I do remember seeing it mentioned on your log. How do you find it? I'm not sure whether I ever saw anything more verbose by you on the subject (though that may just be my memory failing me, of course :))
I do think finding good material to use is really important though. Luckily Harry Potter does that for me. While I've long gotten over my obsession with HP and could name countless books that I find better (as well as no end of mistakes and inconsistencies in the HP books - I could probably write a whole thesis on the topic), HP was such a big part of my life for so long that going back to read one of the books is like visiting an old friend, an experience so infused with nostalgia that it's hard not to enjoy it despite its flaws. (Although who knows - after going through the same book 4 times in about a month I may reconsider :lol:)
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Re: Yuurei's Language Log (ZH, KO, FR, JA, ES)

Postby jeff_lindqvist » Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:50 am

Yuurei wrote:Ah, now that you mention it, I do remember seeing it mentioned on your log. How do you find it? I'm not sure whether I ever saw anything more verbose by you on the subject (though that may just be my memory failing me, of course :))


Actually I did some LR a couple of months before the epic thread on HTLAL, maybe March 2007. I listened to the Dark Materials trilogy (by Philip Pullman) in English while reading the books in Swedish. I was surprised to notice how slow audio was compared to my natural reading speed. I didn't know. By the way, this was merely a way to do two things at the same time, and not really language studies. Then came siomotteikiru. I thought LR was an interesting approach to language learning - lazy, but intensive. However, I never found the right material to start with.

Maybe two years after reading the thread, say, the summer of 2009, I read the Da Vinci Code (by Dan Brown) in Swedish while listening to it in Spanish. I wasn't familiar with the story beforehand. When I finished it, I re-read the book in Spanish and listened to it once more (also in Spanish). According to the original guidelines, this should be done a number of times during a short period in order to really absorb the author's language. I still found it effective enough after just two listens, and I believe it was the first real book I ever read in Spanish. It definitely was the first audiobook. I continued with Angels and Demons (also by Dan Brown). First in Spanish/Swedish, then Spanish/Spanish.

I've tried it with a few more books (and languages) after that, including Little Prince in Chinese (epic fail), and the first book in the Millenium series (by Stieg Larsson) in Spanish (I had already read it in Swedish, and went directly for Spanish/Spanish).

I've written a little about LR it here:
Mandarin L-R: Four questions

Similar topics:
Questions about L/R
Listening-Reading experiments log
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Brun Ugle
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Re: Yuurei's Language Log (ZH, KO, FR, JA, ES)

Postby Brun Ugle » Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:37 pm

Wait. Are the Finnish cookies and the Spanish cookies the same cookies? ‘Cause that hardly seems worth it. Also, what language do you have to learn to get prune-filled Berliners? (Asking for a friend.)
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