Ben tries to read German books

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BenTriesToRead
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Posts: 25
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2021 3:29 am
Languages: English, German(Beginner)
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Re: Ben tries to read German books

Postby BenTriesToRead » Sun Sep 19, 2021 2:54 pm

Iversen wrote:As you can see from the quotes above, the TestYourVocab-site tells you that people who read a lot - and in particular a lot of literature - score higher on the vocabulary tests than those that don't. So gnashing your way through a lot of German novels isn't the worst thing you could do.

The big question is how much attention you should pay to unknown words. Counting unknown words on some sample pages is an excellent way to keep track of your passive vocabulary, but at least in the beginning it would take to much time to look them all up, and it would divert your attention from the simple task of just reading. Personally I would supplement the reading with some separate looking-things-up sessions.

As for the question of a limit for word acquisition: it is probably more a question of time and 'Aufmerksamkeit' than anything else.


This is essentially what I do. I'll jot down the unknown words from my samples but not look them up at that time. Whenever my anki deck begins running dry I'll look up a bunch of those and add them as cards. I typically read on a kindle and I'll check the meaning of a word on there if it is hindering my comprehension or if I'm curious or if I want to see if my guess from context was correct but I don't look up every word I come across and I try to maintain some sort of flow.
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BenTriesToRead
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Re: Ben tries to read German books

Postby BenTriesToRead » Mon Oct 11, 2021 10:30 pm

Ich habe "Die Tote in Der Bibliothek" gelesen.

I finished reading "Die Tote in der Bibliothek" and enjoyed it although I think I'm going to try one of the Poirot novels next. The Miss Marple formula seems to be that she sits on the sidelines and swoops in at the end to tell everyone that they were wrong and that she knew who the killer was all along. I don't have to much to say about this experiment except that I haven't kept up with Anki the past few weeks and I have several hundred overdue reviews that I haven't felt compelled to do. I'm still enjoying the reading though and have been doing it every day. I've gathered my usual stats below.

I sampled 9 pages with 148 unknown words out of 1874 total giving a vocabulary coverage of 92.1% known words. I've noticed that the number of unknown words per page can vary pretty wildly giving anywhere from 88% to 95% vocabulary coverage depending on the topic and what's occurring. Hopefully it all averages out in the end.

Updated Anki stats:
Relearning:4
Young: 350
Mature: 922
Total: 1276
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BenTriesToRead
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Posts: 25
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Languages: English, German(Beginner)
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Re: Ben tries to read German books

Postby BenTriesToRead » Sun Nov 21, 2021 5:45 pm

I've finished reading "Mord im Orientexpress". Difficulty wise this book felt similar to the previous ones. Unfortunately this one took a little longer to get through because that's the way life is sometimes. I did kill my anki backlog but I haven't added any new words. I've compiled my usual stats below. I've included my individual sample data because I think it's interesting how much variance there can be from page to page. I'm curious if the standard deviation in vocabulary coverage per page will shrink as my vocabulary size increases. I'm also curious if there are more unknown words towards the front of each novel while I'm still getting used to common words to describe the setting and situation. I think intuitively this makes sense. I must have encountered the word "Abteil" dozens, if not over a hundred times throughout this book and I'm sure there are plenty of other words like that.

Estimated Known Vocabulary:

Sample #| Unknown | Total Words | Estimated Known Vocabulary%
Sample 1 | 28 | 232 | 87.93103448%
Sample 2 | 11 | 206 | 94.66019417%
Sample 3 | 25 | 213 | 88.2629108%
Sample 4 | 13 | 199 | 93.46733668%
Sample 5 | 14 | 189 | 92.59259259%
Sample 6 | 16 | 223 | 92.82511211%
Sample 7 | 15 | 181 | 91.71270718%
Sample 8 | 9 | 202 | 95.54455446%
Sample 9 | 19 | 222 | 91.44144144%
Sample 10 |18 | 235 | 92.34042553%

Total:
Unknown | Total Words | Estimated Known Vocabulary%
168 | 2102 | 92.0076118%

Anki Stats:
Due: 0
Learning: 0
Relearning: 0
Young: 159
Mature: 1117
Total: 1276
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BenTriesToRead
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Languages: English, German(Beginner)
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Re: Ben tries to read German books

Postby BenTriesToRead » Sun Dec 26, 2021 6:08 pm

On the 28th of November I finished "Angriff der Necrons". This was maybe one third the length of the other books I've read and I was hesitant to count it because it was so short. Book lengths vary and are far from a perfect metric for gauging progress but they're better than nothing. Eventually I'd like to calculate the number of words read and plot that to try and get a better sense of improvement per the amount I've read. I've collected the usual stats below.

Estimated Known Vocabulary:

Sample #| Unknown | Total Words | Estimated Known Vocabulary%
Sample 1 | 12 | 185 | 93.51%
Sample 2 | 19 | 180 | 89.44%
Sample 3 | 23 | 185 | 87.57%
Sample 4 | 19 | 199 | 90.45%
Sample 5 | 15 | 166 | 90.96%
Sample 6 | 15 | 189 | 92.06%
Sample 7 | 16 | 195 | 91.79%
Sample 8 | 11 | 169 | 93.49%
Sample 9 | 7 | 190 | 96.32%

Total | 137 | 1658 | 91.74%

I also came across someone who collected similar stats to me and it was encouraging to see how much they improved. https://www.reddit.com/r/languagelearni ... n_russian/
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BenTriesToRead
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Re: Ben tries to read German books

Postby BenTriesToRead » Sun Dec 26, 2021 6:18 pm

I also just finished reading "Percy Jackson: Die Schlact um das Labyrinth". This is the first book I've read using only a German dictionary instead of a German/English dictionary. I'd attempted to switch to a native dictionary in the past but I found it too difficult. This time I was able to understand about half of the words I looked up and I managed to make it through. I didn't mention it in my last post but I also have made no progress on anki.

Edit: Due to a spreadsheet error. I've had to update the numbers below:

Estimated Known Vocabulary:

Sample #| Unknown | Total Words | Estimated Known Vocabulary%
Sample 1 | 22 | 207 | 89.37%
Sample 2 | 11 | 207 | 94.69%
Sample 3 | 15 | 216 | 93.06%
Sample 4 | 15 | 201 | 92.54%
Sample 5 | 12 | 189 | 93.65%
Sample 6 | 14 | 231 | 93.94%
Sample 7 | 11 | 180 | 93.89%
Sample 8 | 12 | 206 | 94.17%
Sample 9 | 10 | 202 | 95.05%
Sample 10 | 17 | 213 | 92.02%

Total | 139 | 2052 | 93.23%
Last edited by BenTriesToRead on Sat Jan 15, 2022 10:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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BenTriesToRead
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Re: Ben tries to read German books

Postby BenTriesToRead » Thu Dec 30, 2021 4:19 am

On the 28th I finished Warhammer Adventures: In den Klauen des Genräubers. It was a shorter book and a quick read but overall I felt like it had more words I didn't know than my last few books. Part of that is probably due to it having a setting and plot that are pretty different from the other books I've read and part of it probably comes from adjusting to a new author and translator.


Edit: Due to a spreadsheet error. I've updated the numbers below:

Estimated Known Vocabulary:

Sample #| Unknown | Total Words | Estimated Known Vocabulary%
Sample 1 | 15 | 228 | 93.42%
Sample 2 | 21 | 199 | 89.45%
Sample 3 | 25 | 216 | 88.43%
Sample 4 | 15 | 220 | 93.18%
Sample 5 | 26 | 201 | 87.06%
Sample 6 | 10 | 195 | 94.87%
Sample 7 | 14 | 228 | 93.86%
Sample 8 | 21 | 238 | 91.18%
Sample 9 | 13 | 233 | 94.42%
Sample 10 | 18 | 218 | 91.74%

Total | 178 | 2176 | 91.82%
Last edited by BenTriesToRead on Sat Jan 15, 2022 10:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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BenTriesToRead
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Re: Ben tries to read German books

Postby BenTriesToRead » Sat Jan 01, 2022 3:41 pm

So after being stuck on the road for several long stretches I've found out that I can keep up with the story in the audiobook version of Harry Potter und der Orden des Phönix. I've always felt like my listening comprehension has lagged my reading comprehension and that's still the case but this is the first time I can recall where I felt like I wasn't only getting snippets or chunks of the content and instead was keeping up with the majority of it. Since this is a case where I have some familiarity with the material, having read the book decades ago, I also decided to check some youtube videos and I was able to keep up with simple videos on topics I knew. When I branched out to topics I was less familiar with I still wasn't able to keep up. Hopefully my listening comprehension continues to improve and I can add more podcasts and audio books into my learning.
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BenTriesToRead
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Re: Ben tries to read German books

Postby BenTriesToRead » Sat Jan 08, 2022 7:34 pm

I'm back with another update that isn't about reading. I decided to try out an italki session this week since I was happy enough with my listening comprehension. I ended up scheduling a thirty minute trial session and I'm pleased with how it turned out. I was able to understand everything that was said to me and we were able to talk about more than the basic introductory questions. As expected my ability to speak is horrific and I realized just how many basic words are not part of my active vocabulary and how I haven't internalized the word order(at least when it comes to production). I managed to respond to everything though and I was grateful for the corrections I received.

This was actually the second time that I tried italki. I had a lesson once before around 2018 when I was much more of a beginner. I remember that I had a much harder time understanding what was said to me and didn't know many of the words which is probably why I put off further production for so long. That first conversation petered out rather quickly and it was obvious that I had really bumped up against the limits of what I was capable of at the time. It probably would have been beneficial to keep going with it but I'm much more comfortable trying to have a conversation when I can at least understand one side of it and I when I know that the words are kicking around somewhere inside my head even if I can't manage to actively produce many of them yet. I'm hopeful that I'll see improvement this time if I stick with it and I found it engaging and enjoyable enough that I plan to continue.

After the initial planned session I decided to jump into a second instant lesson and I also had a great time there. I think I got over some of my initial hesitancy and I butchered several more sentences and I hesitated less often and got stuck a bit less. I'm overall very happy with how it went. Over the course of an hour I only had to ask for something to be repeated twice and there were only a handful of words that I had to ask what they meant. I did frequently ask for words I was lacking when trying to speak and I would kick myself when I'd hear them because they were usually already part of my passive vocabulary. I know I butchered basic grammar. I'm sure my pronunciation was horrid and I would frequently use words that were similar sounding but not quite the correct word. I'm not worried about getting it sorted out though and I think I can managed it with more practice.

I'm happy that I listened and read much more before trying to speak because it now feels like it has reduced the number of different obstacles I have to struggle with during a conversation instead of straining to understand and lacking vocabulary while trying to speak. It has been a much more enjoyable activity this time around.
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BenTriesToRead
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Re: Ben tries to read German books

Postby BenTriesToRead » Sat Jan 15, 2022 11:14 pm

I've finished reading Sub Terra by James Rollins. This was the longest book I've read in German but it felt like it was roughly on par with the difficulty of the last few books I've read. I still find it interesting how the number of unknown words can vary wildly from page to page and it feels like they tend to cluster together.

I ended up doing some anki review since I completed the last book and I'll probably continue to do it when the mood strikes but I very much treat it as a supplemental activity and I don't keep up with it daily which I think shows in the stats. Since my last update I've also had another two and a half hours of conversation practice. My active vocabulary is still far behind my passive vocabulary but I feel like it's improving with practice. Trying to speak has also put a spotlight on some gaps in my grammar so I've taken the time to review it and I'm trying to eliminate some of my more glaring mistakes.

I'm working on fixing up problems with word order which hasn't been too bad and it is mostly down to me never actually reading about how subordinating conjunctions work in German. After reading the rule I realized that I had some feel for how the verb moved to the end but obviously it had not fully solidified from input alone. I also know that my declension is awful and I'll probably monitor it when I practice writing.

Finally, while browsing the forum I saw that someone had posted the DW placement tests. I took the A1 and A2 tests for fun and got a 84% and 64%. I'm fairly certain I missed close to every question that had me pick the correct ending for the word but I can successfully tell you what I need to do when they announce a change to my flight or train over the PA. It's very apparent how these tests are geared towards a certain set of topics and skills that I don't feel relate very much to general language usage. Many of the questions are around common utterances and greetings and responses that likely come up in a classroom or small talk or they are about booking hotels, and classes, and travel arrangements. With that said I don't think the test was unfair even if it is centered around things that don't interest me and it obviously pointed out gaps in my knowledge. I'll probably take the B1 placement before my next update.

Anki Stats:

New: 2
Due: 493
Learning: 10
Relearning: 16
Young: 287
Mature: 1175
Total: 1490

Sub Terra Stats:
Estimated Known Vocabulary:

Sample #| Unknown | Total Words | Estimated Known Vocabulary%

Sample 1 | 14 | 210 | 93.33%
Sample 2 | 16 | 235 | 93.19%
Sample 3 | 20 | 227 | 91.19%
Sample 4 | 20 | 218 | 90.83%
Sample 5 | 21 | 236 | 91.1%
Sample 6 | 27 | 222 | 87.84%
Sample 7 | 14 | 230 | 93.91%
Sample 8 | 12 | 211 | 94.31%
Sample 9 | 14 | 242 | 94.21%
Sample 10 | 7 | 244 | 97.13%

Total | 165 | 2275 | 92.75%
Last edited by BenTriesToRead on Sun Jan 16, 2022 6:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Aloyse
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Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... php?t=9983
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Re: Ben tries to read German books

Postby Aloyse » Sun Jan 16, 2022 5:30 pm

Could you do paragraphs please?
It's a little difficult to read a wall of text.
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Future me already did it.


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