French - From Zero to Hero

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lysi
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Re: French - From Zero to Hero

Postby lysi » Tue Jun 29, 2021 5:17 pm

Cavesa wrote:And I am not sure lysi takes into account the bad quality of many normal French coursebooks, so I am more of an optimist about this replacement strategy.


It's possible. I've only ever done FSI, DLI, and Grammaire Progressive C2. Just because most French coursebooks are bad doesn't mean that there's not a few good ones, though.
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Lawyer&Mom
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Re: French - From Zero to Hero

Postby Lawyer&Mom » Tue Jun 29, 2021 7:47 pm

FrenchHero wrote:
Lawyer&Mom wrote:Absolutely no need for native TV at the moment. Dubbed will more than meet your needs, and is probably even better for you. Familiar stories help at this stage. I watched all 15 seasons of ER dubbed in French and now have around a B2 listening ability.


You can bet I'll even watch Peppa Pig at this stage... Having two toddlers at home implies some nonsense. :lol:


Switch all their TV to French too. They are young enough they really won’t care and it’s extra exposure for you.
4 x
Grammaire progressive du français -
niveau debutant
: 60 / 60

Grammaire progressive du francais -
intermédiaire
: 25 / 52

Pimsleur French 1-5
: 3 / 5

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lysi
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Re: French - From Zero to Hero

Postby lysi » Thu Jul 01, 2021 6:10 am

FrenchHero wrote:Additional rules:

- All streaming content must be dubbed. No exceptions.

FrenchHero wrote:For several reasons. I'm not that keen on native French content. Sometimes I do enjoy it (for instance, I'm having a blast with Lupin), but I think it's both practical and more realistic not to limit myself to pure native French media, as I enjoy a lot of foreign shows that you can watch in a dub version.


I can understand wanting to watch some dubbed content in French (I certainly have) but why say that you're only going to watch dubbed content, with "no exceptions"? I think your view of French content is grossly inaccurate. I don't watch like, shows or anything, since I don't watch shows in either French or English but I can tell you there's plenty of great content on YouTube in French. In a few cases I can even say it's better than what I've seen in English. I can't give you any personal recommendations; I don't really know what you like, but I posted a few channels that I like in the French resources thread.

You'll hear people all the time say stuff like "you should only watch/read what you enjoy", well I disagree with that. You should push your boundaries further and further and experiment with plenty of different types of content. You'll be pleasantly surprised; I certainly was. I went into French content with absolutely no expectations, neither positive or negative, and I came out with a love for reading that I never had before and a pretty extensive knowledge of French politics and history. I never really intended to either; that's just how things turned out, I guess, and it's funny looking back at it.
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jeffers
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Re: French - From Zero to Hero

Postby jeffers » Thu Jul 01, 2021 8:21 am

I didn't want to lead someone's log off on a tangent, but the thing that suprised me was "no exceptions". However, there is something about native video that is worth considering. Facial expression is a crucial part of how sounds are made, so it is quite useful, especially for a beginner, to observe as closely as possible what people do with their faces as they speak. This is more true for French than for any other language I've learnt; French people don't pout their lips so much just to look sexy! In addition, there are a lot of social cues that you can see in native content that will be subtly different from what we do in English speaking cultures.

I was clued up to this by French in Action, which makes a big deal about social cues in many of the early lessons, and the introduction to the textbook discusses the importance of watching French speakers' faces.

However, I absolutely agree that dubbed content is generally clearer and easier to understand, particularly if you are already familiar with it.
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Le mieux est l'ennemi du bien (roughly, the perfect is the enemy of the good)

French SC Books: 0 / 5000 (0/5000 pp)
French SC Films: 0 / 9000 (0/9000 mins)

FrenchHero
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Re: French - From Zero to Hero

Postby FrenchHero » Fri May 19, 2023 1:20 pm

So I forgot to update this post. Some developments worth mentioning.

My final route has been a little different than expected. The materials that I’ve used were the following (in order of completion):

- Grammaire Progressive: Débutant (done)
- Grammaire Progressive: Intermédiaire (done)
- Assimil French with Ease (done)
- Lingoda French Super Sprint B2.1 (60 lessons - completed with cashback).
- Grammaire Progressive: Avancé (done)
- Grammaire Progressive: Perfeccionement (40/85 chapters completed)
- Assimil Using French (50/70 done so far)

To measure my progress I decided to take the DELF B2 exam on October 2022. I scored 68 points. This was before I finished the Assimil book, as the second wave felt especially boring to do (but I nonetheless finished it).

I also took some tutoring sessions with a native teacher (1,5h per week) since September 2021, which helped me a great lot to develop my speaking skills.

At this time I can read press, write emails and attend work attend meetings in French. I believe that I’ve reached a plateau and progress from now on will be much slower. I will probably stop studying once I sucessfully pass the DALF C1 exam.

I’d like to pick up German next, just for fun. I have no need for it in my current job.

The fact that I am bilingual (mostly) in Spanish and Portuguese and that I have a fairly good grasp of English definitively helped. But don’t make any mistake: in order to keep progressing, consistency is key.

I occasionally watch cartoons in French with my kids or the occasional broadcast feed on Youtube, but I find myself sinking into old habits and most of my leisure time is spent consuming English content.

Once I’m done with French I hope that I will be able to keep this fluency by homeschooling the language to my kids and through occasional interaction with work colleagues.

I hope that my experience may be useful for the community.

Cheers!
14 x
Grammaire Progressive Perf: 40 / 85
Assimil French Perf: 50 / 70

C1 French: 2 / 6

Cavesa
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Re: French - From Zero to Hero

Postby Cavesa » Sun May 21, 2023 8:06 pm

Wow! Exactly as promised in the log title! Congratulations! You're awesome!
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miket12
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Re: French - From Zero to Hero

Postby miket12 » Sun May 21, 2023 8:32 pm

Since you've accomplished what you set out to do and for part of your learning used Assimil, I wonder if you have any advice or tips on what you found helped you get the most out of that program? I'm about to start using it for Italian.
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FrenchHero
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Re: French - From Zero to Hero

Postby FrenchHero » Wed May 24, 2023 10:17 am

Cavesa wrote:Wow! Exactly as promised in the log title! Congratulations! You're awesome!


Thank you. I bet you're awesome as well.

miket12 wrote:Since you've accomplished what you set out to do and for part of your learning used Assimil, I wonder if you have any advice or tips on what you found helped you get the most out of that program? I'm about to start using it for Italian.


Absolutely.

I would advise to not fall into the "hoarding" pit-trap. In other words, do not use a lot of different materials at once. Language learning is a long-term process and you need time to process the source material that you're using. Therefore, cramming isn't going to do much good if you overextend and stop studying for a while. It's a lot better to do 30 mins per day that one 4 hour cramming session per week.

So, in order to use Assimil effectively, I would advise to stick with the program guidelines as they're written. For me it worked wonders, even if some lessons were tedious (and especially the active wave - but it truly has its benefits).

I would recommend keeping Assimil as your main source material. You can add a grammar book for supplementary exercises, so you can benefit from some structured learning. Assimil gives you the "inmersion" factor, while grammar helps you to identify patterns that will boost your language learning process.

This is how I used Assimil.

- I would listen to the recording two times, with the book closed.
- I would listen to the recording two times, repeating every sentence after it was spoken. I would stop the recording, repeat it (trying to imitate the accent), and then continue.
- I would then hear it once or twice once again with the book open.
- I would then, read the text in the target language a couple of times. If I didn't know the meaning of a particular sentence or word I would look at the translation.
- After this, I would give the text a couple more readings, but stopping at each particular lesson note. These are important because they explain some nuances of the text that aren't obvious at a first glance.
- Finally, I would complete the exercises.

After the first 50 lessons, mind that you have some extra work. You need to do the second wave, which I would complete as follows:

- Listen twice the text in French, with the book closed.
- Read the translation in your native language, then try to translate it back to French. Don't worry if you make mistakes. You're supposed to make them.

The main advice I would give while using Assimil is to not obsess with perfection. You will get some things wrong. Heck, I still make some stupid mistakes. Today I answered to a colleage "Ça marche" (which means "I agree", or "It works for me") to a "Comment ça va" ("How are you").

There is a saying in Spanish that summarizes this: "Lo perfecto es lo enemigo de lo bueno".
5 x
Grammaire Progressive Perf: 40 / 85
Assimil French Perf: 50 / 70

C1 French: 2 / 6

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tastyonions
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Re: French - From Zero to Hero

Postby tastyonions » Wed May 24, 2023 11:16 am

I always love it when I see a log that seems to have been "abandoned" get revived years later with its writer informing everyone of their success at learning their TL. Awesome work, FrenchHero!
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jeffers
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Re: French - From Zero to Hero

Postby jeffers » Wed May 24, 2023 1:24 pm

FrenchHero wrote:There is a saying in Spanish that summarizes this: "Lo perfecto es lo enemigo de lo bueno".


Great post! Especially this part, which is a fantastic guiding principle for many things, especially language learning. I've even included it in my signature! It is funny that you're quoting the Spanish translation of what probably originated in French. It was stated by Voltaire, in any case, although I guess it probably pre-dated him.

EDIT: did a bit of Googling, and it seems Voltaire said it was an old Italian saying.
4 x
Le mieux est l'ennemi du bien (roughly, the perfect is the enemy of the good)

French SC Books: 0 / 5000 (0/5000 pp)
French SC Films: 0 / 9000 (0/9000 mins)


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