Luke's very confused Spanish Learning Log

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luke
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Re: Luke's very confused Spanish Learning Log

Postby luke » Mon Oct 04, 2021 10:26 pm

the road trip
LawyerMom gave me an idea for road trip entertainment. The Lord of the Rings with audio descriptions from the movie. The trilogy is 9 hours. The dialog and descriptions are in Spanish. I've listened to 5 of the six parts. Borimir said "My Captain, my King" to Aragorn, just after his dying confession. Frodo may be dead. Sam thinks so. He has Sting and maybe another thing. Dark forces are attacking Minas Tirith. The heads of Farimir's friends rained down on him and his troops while sent on a suicidal mission by his demented father Denethor. Two woman have spilt tears for Aragorn. Merry and Pippin are in the stone city and will defend it and Gandalf will try to keep them alive. Pippin sang to Denethor after pledging himself as debt owed for Borimir - Denethor's son - saving their lives. He sang to Denethor as the heads fell from the sky, catapulted by Orcs.

Very good selection.

Also did the FSI Variation Drills at random and a few folders of sequential FSI. The radio on this trip found less Spanish speaking stations.
Mainly it was FSI and LOTR.

Finished FSI Unit 29
Including the written exercises. Yeah! :)

la gramÁtica
Wanted to make some notes on helpful posts. Not always easy to find them when I want to put them in practice.

First is Mr. einzelne's method that makes grammar less scarey.
einzelne wrote:First, you take a short grammar book and read it as a travelogue. When you drill certain grammar points to the point they become second nature on the basis of useful sentences. Then, if you come across some grammar features in your reading you don't understand, you try to find an explanation in a big grammar book, write down an example and then continue to collect another examples while reading. When you have a dozen of sentences (relevant for you) which illustrate the grammar point, you repeat them out loud till they become automatic.

Kraut's eleFANTE y apaELEs
Mr. Kraut's links to a couple of good free grammar books for Spanish (ELE = ESL for Spanish).
Kraut wrote:papELEs. GRAMÁTICA DEL ESPAÑOL COMO LENGUA EXTRANJERA, NIVEL A
https://marcoele.com/gramatica-a/

ELEfante. GRAMÁTICA DEL ESPAÑOL COMO LENGUA EXTRANJERA, NIVEL B
https://marcoele.com/gramatica-b/

Las Ficciones
Borges Cuentos Completos and it's Penguin translation came along for the ride. Las Ficciones is a relatively small part of Cuentos Completos. Audible has this as a 20 hour audiobook. I haven't done the math, but the first 1/2 of Ficciones - since it's a 2 part book - may be about 4 hours. The first story is the longest. 45 minutes. Others are generally longer than 15. The 2nd half, which isn't on the agenda for the trip has some even shorter short stories, like 8 minutes.

The first one was a relatively complex story. I only read it in English. Didn't listen to the audio. Seemed like a good approach. Almost feel I could read it again in English just to fully get the story. So, you can imagine the Spanish is even a bigger challenge for me.

But I like this idea because it doesn't have to intrude on the visit at all. If I do 1 story, fine. If I do the 7 that are recorded, well that would be amazing if they are as labyrinthical as the first. Hoping to not just make a dent/first pass, but get a story or two or more up to the level where I can listen to it or read it and pretty much understand the whole thing in Spanish. Or at least that it's memorable when I come back to it.

It strikes me now that I can do various Listen-Reading experiments on Borges Short Stories. So, the first experiment I think will be reading it first and understanding it well in my native language.
Last edited by luke on Wed Oct 06, 2021 11:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
8 x
: 124 / 124 Cien años de soledad 20x
: 5479 / 5500 5500 pages - Reading
: 51 / 55 FSI Basic Spanish 3x
: 309 / 506 Camino a Macondo

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luke
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Re: Luke's very confused Spanish Learning Log

Postby luke » Tue Oct 05, 2021 5:25 pm

luke wrote:Las Ficciones
The first one was a relatively complex story. I only read it in English. Didn't listen to the audio. Seemed like a good approach. Almost feel I could read it again in English just to fully get the story. So, you can imagine the Spanish is even a bigger challenge for me.

It strikes me now that I can do various Listen-Reading experiments on Borges Short Stories. So, the first experiment I think will be reading it first and understanding it well in my native language.

Some notes to remember what I did.

This morning I did reread that first story - Tlön, Uqbar, Orbis Tertius - in English. (Once again, no audio). Used a marker to tie a name used early with later references to it, highlighted the words in the title and their initial definitions. Did this too with the personal name and his occupation. Wrote a few definitions. Want the story to reconstitute easier with a glance at the book.

Then I decided to Listen-Read it after a short break in Spanish-Spanish. That reading was the most understandable. I paused the audio in a few places to make some marks in the books or do dictionary lookups on a few words. Marked up the book a bit as I had done in English.

This was pretty effective approach. I feel I can move on to the next story, which in fact I've already done by reading it in English.

The second story, Pierre Menard, Author of the Quixote is more straight-forward in ideas and the telling. I can probably move straight to Spanish-Spanish with it tomorrow.

I've heard various people talking about L-Ring a book a chapter at a time. I've attempted that a few times but always gave up with a "this is too slow" impatience. Also, if something is complicated, like that first story where I had to read it twice in English, it would seem even slower (at least in the short run).

Upsides: Borges uses various philosophical terms and references some obscure facts that were mainstream to his life. Investigating philosophical ideas or other references via wikipedia is a way to enrich the reading and step out of the novel into real world writing and that's probably good too.

In conclusion, rather than setting up Borges Ficciones or Cuentos Completos as a singular work to digest, I'm taking a more leisurely and scattered approach. The stories are independent and I can dip in wherever tickles my fancy.

The Audible narrator is pretty good. Think his accent is Argentinian. Borges was too. The audiobook chapters each have a "duration", which makes it easier to find short stories when I have less time to dedicate to the book.

This "study part of the book" idea reminds me of how some literature survey classes might introduce an author or his work.
6 x
: 124 / 124 Cien años de soledad 20x
: 5479 / 5500 5500 pages - Reading
: 51 / 55 FSI Basic Spanish 3x
: 309 / 506 Camino a Macondo

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luke
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Re: Luke's very confused Spanish Learning Log

Postby luke » Wed Oct 06, 2021 12:38 pm

Las ruinas circulares
This morning I Listen-Read (Spanish-Spanish) Pierre Menard, autor del Quijote. That's the Borges story I read in English yesterday. That went pretty well.

Then I read The Circular Ruins, the next story in English and promptly Listen-Read it in Spanish-English. That second reading was more pleasant than the first.

Something I've noticed is there's always the "attention factor". How well am I focusing? That's a sliding scale and can vary from minute to minute, moment to moment. Getting into the story is helpful for focus. So is figuring out the story, although perhaps less so (unless one pauses the audio when one is listening).

One thing I'm enjoying about the Borges ficciones - especially this last one - is they invite a lot of thinking, extrapolation, interpretation, deciphering of symbols (if one wants to interpret the story metaphorically). These are all things I enjoy doing in the playground of my mind.

This sort of fiction is good then, because multiple passes using multiple modalities is useful for both the language side of the experience as well as appreciation.

Can imagine at some point just reading some of the stuff in Spanish as helpful and enjoyable. Reading without the pacer of an audio narration gives time for the mind to decipher or wander creatively without missing the part of the story that continued while the mind was exploring significance or possibilities.

I need to be kind to myself. I'm not one who enjoys a deadline or timeline breathing down my neck, although sometimes that's exactly what helps me call to action.

Colonel D. Rainwater mentioned an affinity for todo lists. I prefer them too. They're quite flexible.
7 x
: 124 / 124 Cien años de soledad 20x
: 5479 / 5500 5500 pages - Reading
: 51 / 55 FSI Basic Spanish 3x
: 309 / 506 Camino a Macondo

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luke
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Re: Luke's very confused Spanish Learning Log

Postby luke » Sat Oct 09, 2021 2:55 pm

TheWordBrain wrote:Me fascinaba ver cómo de forma gradual entraban nuevas lenguas en mi cerebro; debatirme entre el aprendizaje y el olvido; sentir cómo la mente se iba saturando, suplicando un descanso; y descubrir cómo el aprendizaje a veces hace grandes avances cuando piezas incompletas de conocimiento se combinan de repente con casi total fluidez.

Ante la perspectiva de un viaje, durante o después del mismo, estudiaba la gramática básica de otras lenguas: [...] Una de las consecuencias de la reiterada exposición a otras lenguas es que, hoy en día, leo gramáticas tan rápida y apasionadamente como leería cartas de amor.

Definiremos «hablar otra lengua» en profundidad. La definición incluye la habilidad para:
− leer ensayos o periódicos,
− comprender los informativos o documentales de televisión,
− imaginar la ortografía correcta de las palabras que escuchas en los informativos o en los documentales que ves por la televisión,
− entender conversaciones de la vida cotidiana.

These were some things that stuck out to me in the current read of The Word Brain, a book that I think is very good for language learners.

He notes that occasionally there's a leap in understanding when certain pieces of the language come together. Thinking maybe my "illustraciones" (FSI Presentation of Pattern) is a good thing to continue and perhaps "git 'er done".

He also enjoys reading grammars for pleasure.

In that last set of bullet points, he doesn't actually mention speaking. He uses the word "includes", which obviously doesn't mean "is limited to". I know the book will get into speaking, but interesting for this point in the book (Introduction) that he's marking the territory. He has already mentioned listening, listening more and keep listening, and not speaking too soon.

(BTW, I'm not suggesting I'm following his method. Just gathering ideas and perhaps inspiration).

Think removing some of the New and Easy cards from Anki 5000 is a good idea.

TheWordBrain - Palabras wrote:Los pequeños esfuerzos no producen grandes resultados.
6 x
: 124 / 124 Cien años de soledad 20x
: 5479 / 5500 5500 pages - Reading
: 51 / 55 FSI Basic Spanish 3x
: 309 / 506 Camino a Macondo

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luke
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Re: Luke's very confused Spanish Learning Log

Postby luke » Sun Oct 17, 2021 1:18 am

y vuelta
Finished the final 90 minute audio-description of El Señor de los Anillos on the way home. That should probably get chopped up in smaller fragments with my attention span. Would also be good to find if there's an Audacity filter that will take down the background music and sounds to help the voices come to the foreground. Modern TVs have that feature today and I like it a lot - even if I'm watching a movie. My sister and I both like having the subtitles on even in our native English. Very helpful. Sometimes even tells you which character is speaking, which is helpful in learning the names when there's a large cast.

Rotated between the FSI sticks as well. The variations stick was on random.

Did a few podcasts as well.

Finished FSI Basic Spanish Lesson 30
That's the official 1/2 way point in the course. Finished the conversation stimulus and wrote out the reading exercises tonight.

Gabriel García Márquez
Updated my progress bars with 2 new goals. Started Cien años de soledad for the 5th time with Con Kepa Amuchastegui audio. Using the parallel text. Did the first 2 segments of chapter 1 tonight. Trying to narrate/shadow as well as the master.

Updated the translation in a few spots where the Spanish wasn't entirely clear. Google with human translation helps me come up with a third translation that I find superior.

Learned a couple words in English. Patina - an image search shows oxidative effects on copper and other metals. This was my final version of that sentence. Also learned the related word verdigris.

Usaba un sombrero grande y negro, como las alas extendidas de un cuervo, y un chaleco de terciopelo patinado por el verdín de los siglos.
He wore a large black hat, like the outstretched wings of a raven, and a velvet vest patinated by the verdigris of the centuries.

The other track is Vivir para contarla. I have the audio in Spanish and the Living to tell the tale translation.

This one I'm listening to the audio and reading the English translation and shadowing a bit to maintain focus.

One nice thing about this new book is it has more dialogue (so far). There's the implicit idiolect tie-in since it's Gabo's autobiography and explicit references to Aracataca, his childhood aldea that inspired Macondo, his mother, who has some characteristics of Úrsula, although I think it was actually his abuela that inspired Úrsula.

Anki tamed once again
About 2 hours over 2 days to catch up all the decks.

Have started deleting a few easy cognate cards and plan to do that more as new, simple cognate cards come up. ambition/ambición

Not planning to delete the more mature cognate cards. They count towards mature cards and cost very little time now.

For posterity, this is the current progress bar lineup:
: 2 / 124 Cien años (5x)
: 10 / 533 Vivir para contarla
: 30 / 55 FSI Basic
: 46 / 55 FSI Dialogs (2x)
: 24 / 55 FSI PoP
: 3403 / 9966 Anki 5000
: 2585 / 3000 3000 pages - 6/14/21

It's a lot, but trying to make progress on all those fronts.
7 x

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luke
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Re: Luke's very confused Spanish Learning Log

Postby luke » Wed Oct 20, 2021 1:12 am

Found this gem at Goodwill:

Image

I'm on page 24 of 454. New words are things like pecas (freckles) and lija (sandpaper).

Cien años de soledad
Three days into the 5th run with Kepa's narration. Finished chapter 5 of 20 this evening.

Have been shadowing this time. I can simultaneously narrate most of the time. Kepa has a natural cadence and way of telling the story.

Generally I've been stopping the tape if I'm having trouble understanding something. Copy paste the Spanish into google translate. Update the parallel text if it seems we can do a better job. Then move on. Often listen to the chapter fragment again in my repose after the shadow.
8 x
: 124 / 124 Cien años de soledad 20x
: 5479 / 5500 5500 pages - Reading
: 51 / 55 FSI Basic Spanish 3x
: 309 / 506 Camino a Macondo

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luke
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Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2015 9:09 pm
Languages: English (N). Spanish (intermediate), Esperanto (B1), French (intermediate but rusting)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=16948
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Re: Luke's very confused Spanish Learning Log

Postby luke » Thu Oct 21, 2021 2:04 am

chunking - Hola Spanish
Encontré éste canal mientras estaba buscando "chunking" y pienso sería muy útil. La canalista habla en espańol de manera natural y con acento bonito. Es Argentina y quise notar este recurso aquí y ahora.



Otro video que sería servicial:



Tuve un buen día estudiando FSI y Cien años. Leí capítulo seis y un poco más. Jose Arcadio acaba de darle cuenta a Roque Carnicero que la Divina Providencia quiere que su hermano el Coronel Aureliano Buendia no muera ante el pelotón de fusilamiento, y por eso, también Roque va a seguir viviendo sin temor de venganza del pueblo de Macondo. Empieza otra guerra.

A propósito, hoy descubí que Victor Villaraza, quien nos ha dado muchas buenas grabiciones por Librivox, es también de Argentina.
6 x
: 124 / 124 Cien años de soledad 20x
: 5479 / 5500 5500 pages - Reading
: 51 / 55 FSI Basic Spanish 3x
: 309 / 506 Camino a Macondo

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luke
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Languages: English (N). Spanish (intermediate), Esperanto (B1), French (intermediate but rusting)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=16948
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Re: Luke's very confused Spanish Learning Log

Postby luke » Sun Oct 24, 2021 5:27 pm

FSI unit 31 done
The FSI sequential bar is my favorite to be able to put a notch in. Usually takes a week or two. May have been 6 days this time, thanks to the pre-study on the way home from visiting my sister and what I think is an undeniable fact that units 31-36 are easier than some of the predecessors and successors (as far as concepts introduced, etc).

Bien años de soledad
Have continued to shadow almost exclusively in this run (5) at Cien años de soledad. Continue tweaking the parallel text. Very helpful for getting the intricacies of the tale to sink in. Kepa Amuchastegui is an awesome narrator.

Capítulo diez viene y con eso, los gemelos.

Take a walk on the wild side
Took a stroll in a green area yesterday. Listened to Vivir para contarla. 20 minutes. Want to do that again today.

Adventure Beast
Found this cartoon series on NetFlix a couple days ago. One season. Episodes are 20 minutes or less. Only about 12 of them. Perfect for a break.

One thing I like about cartoon dubs is that there is never any "wait, the mouth movements don't match the audio" feeling.

It's good for a chuckle here and there and I like the short episodes and finite series length.

Bolivar
Watched one of these too. It's a 60 episode NetFlix series originally in Spanish with some definite historical significance. Probably will circle back to this as I'm not ready for a 50 hour binge or commitment. (episodes are 50-60 minutes).

Back to Adventure Beast. Have used subtitles, not used subtitles, used English subtitles, but haven't settled on anything, other than that the series may be worth watching again at some point. There are other cartoons on NetFlix and somehow this genre gives me something. Thinking of reinke now. He's a fan of cartoons. Vuelve pronto, amigo. (come back soon).
6 x
: 124 / 124 Cien años de soledad 20x
: 5479 / 5500 5500 pages - Reading
: 51 / 55 FSI Basic Spanish 3x
: 309 / 506 Camino a Macondo

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luke
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Re: Luke's very confused Spanish Learning Log

Postby luke » Mon Oct 25, 2021 1:59 pm

Mr. hAnki goes into Hiding
Somehow 45 minutes of Anki happened this morning. Never wanted it to get that out of hand. I think I was enthusiastic over the weekend, but then reviews came in and spoiled la fiesta.

So this is the final one I'm updating for a while:

: 3414 / 9798 Anki 5000

Will keep doing Anki, but taking it off of my visible goal radar, which hopefully will turn the heat down on that burner.

Going to be nice to myself for a while. :lol:
5 x
: 124 / 124 Cien años de soledad 20x
: 5479 / 5500 5500 pages - Reading
: 51 / 55 FSI Basic Spanish 3x
: 309 / 506 Camino a Macondo

User avatar
luke
Brown Belt
Posts: 1243
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2015 9:09 pm
Languages: English (N). Spanish (intermediate), Esperanto (B1), French (intermediate but rusting)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=16948
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Re: Luke's very confused Spanish Learning Log

Postby luke » Thu Oct 28, 2021 2:12 pm

Cuando no pude dormir esta mañana muy temprano, encontré esta joya y la escuché:



Él (Ernesto Prieto) tiene otros videos, y miré por lo menos uno. Escribí el nombre del canal en la nota que guardo por tales cosas.

Más tarde, mientras andaba escuchando Vivir para contarla, me destacó esto:

Living to Tell the Tale wrote:Two of them, Treasure Island and The Count of Monte Cristo, were my happiness drug during those rocky years. I devoured them letter by letter, longing to know what happened in the next line and at the same time longing not to know in order not to break the spell. With them, as with The Thousand and One Nights, I learned and never forgot that we should read only those books that force us to reread them.

With my multiple rereads of Cien años de soledad, I could relate. Apparently he was able to craft his own stories in the same captivating way as had been done in the books he loved.
5 x
: 124 / 124 Cien años de soledad 20x
: 5479 / 5500 5500 pages - Reading
: 51 / 55 FSI Basic Spanish 3x
: 309 / 506 Camino a Macondo


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