Luke's very confused Spanish Learning Log

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luke
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Re: Luke's very confused Spanish Learning Log

Postby luke » Tue Jan 11, 2022 5:31 pm

Cerebral_Arbitrage wrote:Interesting discussion about Gabo, Llosa and their estrangement. I also find these historical mysteries fascinating.

Me too.

By the way, I found the link to Los 5 mejores libros para empezar a leer a Gabriel García Márquez - The 5 best books to begin to read Gabo. Based on my experience with Los funerales de la Mamá Grande, which is in the middle of the list, I'm thinking again what that person's suggestions were. The link is worth reading because it gives the "whys". For the record:

5. Crónica de una muerte anunciada (1981)
4. El coronel no tiene quien le escriba (1961)
3. Los funerales de la Mamá Grande (1962)
2. El amor en los tiempos del cólera (1985)
1. La hojarasca (1955)

I'm toying around in my head whether to get some of these with my Audible subscription. Haven't decided yet whether it's best to "review and redo", or "sally forth and circle back". I wish I knew better how the chapters are divided up in books 5 and 4. In general, Gabo creates long chapters. I prefer short ones, as they're more "digestible" units. At least, they're easier to schedule the consumption of. Books 5 and 4 are in the neighborhood of 2-3 hours each, so novellas.

Since my first pass(es) at these will probably be as audio on walks, and it's easy to get distracted by the "wild" animals in nature (deer, especially), and my thinking nature is non-linear, I'm definitely thinking the "5 books" suggestion is worth pursuing roughly in the order suggested. That doesn't mean I'm setting down Cien años while I'm still early in my first intensive read, only that the "extensive listening" material will be on deck for several weeks.

I came across this Accelerated Language Learning video this morning and it reminded me of several things Professor Arguelles talked about in his "Learn a language in 15 minutes a day":



It made me think the older Assimil (at least the French 1st book), which had a continuing narrative, may have been "better" from a pedagogical perspective than say, New French with Ease, which I seem to recall is very good. I liked it more than New Spanish with Ease, which had excessively slow initial dialogues.

Also wanted to note that in my current intensive Cien años de soledad, I've been using "how many times does Gabo use this word or word form?", as part of my decision-making process on whether to make an Anki card or not. I don't have a hard-and-fast rule, but if I'm on the fence and it was only used once or twice, I don't make a card. Not using "word frequency" as the main criterion. My thinking is more along the lines of, "do I want to understand this part of the story better?", or, "would this be a good word for an image card?" So far, if it's used 3 times, I'm on the fence. I've made some and skipped some. I'm at the beginning of chapter 3 (of 20), so may have to let more of them slide for now. Occasionally, I hit the jackpot and a word will be used 7-8 times, but most of the words I'm unsure of, when deciding whether to make a card or not are in the 2-3 range.

I've been trying to dial back Anki and have done so on my 5000 word and FSI decks. Only about 3 new cards per day on each of those decks right now. Since I've been using both of them for many months, dialing down the intensity takes a little while to really bring down the minutes per day.

On minutes per day, today I've logged almost 45 minutes in Anki, and 30 of them are for Cien años de soledad. So, I'd like to continue to bring down the minutes on those supplemental decks and also not get too carried away making cards for Cien años de soledad.

But the Cien años de soledad deck provides support for Gabo's other books, so I don't think Anki is pure insanity.
4 x
: 124 / 124 Cien años de soledad 20x
: 5479 / 5500 5500 pages - Reading
: 51 / 55 FSI Basic Spanish 3x
: 309 / 506 Camino a Macondo

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luke
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Re: Luke's very confused Spanish Learning Log

Postby luke » Sun Jan 16, 2022 3:31 am

I've been going through various Gabito short stories and cuentos on YouTube over the last day or two.

Two discoveries. They're related:

1) YouTube audiobook with subtitles autotranslated into Native Language (Spanish to English) can make for highly comprehensible input, even if the subtitles are sketchy at times.
2) YouTube audiobook with computer voice that was generated from actual text can be a good comprehension tool too.

The best for #1 was a Cien años de soledad where the YouTube narrator had the text in Spanish on the screen and her voice followed along with the text, which was highlighted as she read it. One neat thing with adding English Subtitles was that the translation appeared on the screen just as she was saying the Spanish.

I did #1 with a few other videos too. Started listening to Relato de un náufrago. That's a rather long short story. Over 3 hours. I fell asleep shortly into it, but that was my goal in the first place. After spending a couple hours doing the L-R thing last night, I woke up this morning thinking and talking to myself in Spanish.

#2 I did with another Gabito short story and that was where the great google autotranslation really shined. I put the video at 1.25x normal speed to keep it interesting.

My Anki Intense Reading of Cien años de soledad is going well. Noticing lots of words that I make cards for showing up in his other works.

Tonight, I went to Barnes and Noble, hoping to find a good cup of coffee. The coffee shop was closed, but I found El escándalo del siglo, which apparently is a bunch of fragments and reports Gabito wrote between 1950-1984. It's about 350 pages and has about 50 or so "chapters". That's perfect. I didn't have my phone with me, so couldn't check if Audible has an audiobook for it. Turns out it doesn't, but that's okay. With short bits, it will make for good "extensive" reading.

I mention B+N, because I'm old enough to remember when there were several used bookstores in my area. There were also a few of those big bookstores like B+N. Now only GoodWill and maybe the Public Library may have some used books for sale. It's no longer the golden age of paper books.

In the Spanish section of B+N, there were 6 books by Roberto Bolaño and 6-8 by Gabito. I say 6-8, as one of the books could be found in Todos los cuentos and I bought the book above, so they're down to 6, by my reckoning. They have a couple shelves of Spanish books (a few hundred).

I had an interesting encounter with a young woman as we were waiting to check out. She had 5 books. We had an interesting chat comparing Fantasy and Magical Realism. Bookstores are good for more than just buying books.
8 x
: 124 / 124 Cien años de soledad 20x
: 5479 / 5500 5500 pages - Reading
: 51 / 55 FSI Basic Spanish 3x
: 309 / 506 Camino a Macondo

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stell
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Re: Luke's very confused Spanish Learning Log

Postby stell » Sun Jan 16, 2022 4:06 am

I read One Hundred Years of Solitude (translated English version) almost 25 years ago, and I was just saying to my sister a few days ago that it was about time I read it in the original Spanish. Maybe I'll pick it up after I finish La casa de los espíritus (Please note that I've been reading this book for almost two years so far, so it might take me a while!). In the meantime, I'll follow along with your reading here!
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luke
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Re: Luke's very confused Spanish Learning Log

Postby luke » Sun Jan 16, 2022 1:00 pm

stell wrote:I read One Hundred Years of Solitude (translated English version) almost 25 years ago, and I was just saying to my sister a few days ago that it was about time I read it in the original Spanish. Maybe I'll pick it up after I finish La casa de los espíritus (Please note that I've been reading this book for almost two years so far, so it might take me a while!). In the meantime, I'll follow along with your reading here!

I've heard of La casa de los espíritus and I think it's in the same genre. Have you ever tried the audiobook?
1 x
: 124 / 124 Cien años de soledad 20x
: 5479 / 5500 5500 pages - Reading
: 51 / 55 FSI Basic Spanish 3x
: 309 / 506 Camino a Macondo

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MorkTheFiddle
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Re: Luke's very confused Spanish Learning Log

Postby MorkTheFiddle » Sun Jan 16, 2022 6:21 pm

luke wrote:I've heard of La casa de los espíritus and I think it's in the same genre. Have you ever tried the audiobook?
Well, I am not Stell, so pardon the interruption, but I have both read La casa de los espíritus and listened to the audiobook. The book is indeed of the same genre as Cien Años. The audiobook is good, though it has the disconcerting feature of having two voices, one female and one male, but separately, not as a dialogue. I preferred the female, but the male does not have all that much to say, so I can recommend the audiobook. Sometimes I did L/R with the book and the audio, sometimes one first and then the other, usually listening at the gym and reading at home.
2 x
Many things which are false are transmitted from book to book, and gain credit in the world. -- attributed to Samuel Johnson

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stell
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Re: Luke's very confused Spanish Learning Log

Postby stell » Sun Jan 16, 2022 11:51 pm

Yes, they're both magical realism. I honestly don't like listening to audiobooks, unless I'm on a long road trip. I have a hard time focusing when I listen.
1 x

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luke
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Re: Luke's very confused Spanish Learning Log

Postby luke » Mon Jan 17, 2022 12:27 am

MorkTheFiddle wrote:
luke wrote:I've heard of La casa de los espíritus and I think it's in the same genre. Have you ever tried the audiobook?
I have both read La casa de los espíritus and listened to the audiobook. The book is indeed of the same genre as Cien Años. The audiobook is good, though it has the disconcerting feature of having two voices, one female and one male, but separately, not as a dialogue. I preferred the female, but the male does not have all that much to say, so I can recommend the audiobook. Sometimes I did L/R with the book and the audio, sometimes one first and then the other, usually listening at the gym and reading at home.

That's what I like, thoroughness!

Some bars of progress
: 20 / 124 Cien años de soledad (9x)
: 701 / 1249 Vivir para contarla (2x)
: 8 / 8 Los funerales de la Mamá Grande (3x)
: 42 / 55 FSI Basic Spanish
: 48 / 55 FSI Illustrations

I finished my trip through the set of short stories Los funerales de la Mamá Grande. I'd listened to it a couple three weeks ago. This time I listened and listen-read, one story at a time. Since I went through each story twice again, I'm giving the book (3x), for my records.

This is the book I got last night:
: 6 / 352 El escándalo del siglo

Here's a good video - content-wise - that I've started listening to:



In another thread, I took the University of Minnesota Learning Style Survey. I'm copying it here for easy reference and further reflection:
Heavier Weighted Learning Styles wrote:You rely more on the sense of sight, and you learn best through visual means (books, video, charts, pictures).

You probably like to do more independent work (studying or reading by yourself or learning with a computer) or enjoy working with one other person you know well.

You are most likely more future-oriented, prefer what can be over what is, like to speculate about possibilities, enjoy abstract thinking, and tend to disfavor step-by-step instruction.

You enjoy discovery learning (in which you pick up information naturally) and prefer to relax and enjoy your learning without concern for deadlines or rules.

You are likely to clump material together in order to remember it by eliminating or reducing differences, and by focusing almost exclusively on similarities. You are likely to blur similar memories and to merge new experiences readily with previous ones.

You tend to deal with information in a more holistic or gestalt way. Consequently, you may have greater difficulty in separating or abstracting material from its context. You work best without distractions.

You learn material more effectively if you conceptualize aspects of it, such as the grammar system, in metaphorical terms. You make the material more comprehensible by developing and applying an extended metaphor to it (e.g., visualizing the grammar system of a given language as an engine that can be assembled and disassembled).

What I'm reading into that: Books, videos, colored markers, multiple runs, taking it easy, short-term goals, don't get boxed in, get the big picture and let your mind wander (extrapolate).

My Gabito obsession is inscribed in those learning style preferences.

Here's an insight fragment that came together today as I was intensively reading and putting together Anki cards from Cien años de soledad:

-Donde pones el ojo pones el plomo.
Aureliano descansó con la comprobación del presagio.
-Lo reconozco -dijo-. Llevará mi nombre.

“Where you put your eye you put the lead (bullet).”
Aureliano relaxed with the verification of the premonition.
“I will recognize him,” he said. “He will bear my name.” (Aureliano José)

The first line is Pilar Ternera telling Aureliano about an insight she just received from the (fortune-telling) cards. There's a line in the middle that I left off the Anki card, because it leads away from the double-meaning of her opening statement. I want to reinforce the insight as well as that highlighted word. The insight is that Aureliano had been feeling insecure, having seen his older brother (José Arcadio) and hearing what his older brother had been doing with Pilar Ternera. Aureliano ends up with Pilar, for at least one night, and now he will have a son based on what happened between them that night.

Pilar's cards have 2 meanings, and so do the Anki cards.
3 x
: 124 / 124 Cien años de soledad 20x
: 5479 / 5500 5500 pages - Reading
: 51 / 55 FSI Basic Spanish 3x
: 309 / 506 Camino a Macondo

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luke
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Re: Luke's very confused Spanish Learning Log

Postby luke » Tue Jan 18, 2022 11:56 pm

thinking out loud (in writing)
So, I have this parallel text of Del amor y otros demonios, by you know who. The Audible version is 4 hours 10 minutes. 5 chapters. I haven't downloaded it yet, but feeling the temptation. Have to spend those credits on something. :lol:

My thinking is like this:
Cien años de soledad is in intensive read mode and I've been making Anki cards. Today I had 42 minutes of Anki cards just for this and 54 minutes total for Anki. I'm in chapter 5 of 20. It seems like a chapter a week will be close to the maximum pace, so I don't get overwhelmed with Anki. There could be another 3 months in this run.

El escándolo del siglo (The Scandal of the Century) is my reading book. No audio. Short chapters, about 7 pages each.

Vivir para contarla is my current listen while walking book. It's 20 hours or 573 pages in 8 chapters. I don't feel ready to commit to reading it yet.

This is where Del amor y otros demonios is coming in. Let's see if I can summarize a few things. They're all Gabo.

Cien años de soledad intensive reading
El escándolo del siglo extensive reading
Vivir para contarla extensive listening
Del amor y otros demonios is left for intensive/extensive listening-reading. The parallel text will be very helpful there.

Enough of that.

By the way, when I put a progress bar up with something like (9x), that's not bragging. That's just a note that this guy is going about it all wrong and he's leaving plenty of evidence of his wrongdoings.

Yet it is my Great Hope that synergism will show her lovely face and "all the wood behind one arrow" will find a mark.

Finally, some Anki stats for my Gabo deck:
■ Nuevas 0 0.0%
■ Aprendiendo 0 0.0%
■ Reaprendiendo 0 0.0%
■ Jóvenes 441 69.6%
■ Maduras 167 26.3%
■ Suspendidas 0 0.0%
■ Enterrados 26 4.1%
Tarjetas totales 634

I've put together a good number of image cards and most cards have rather long phrases, which are very helpful and putting them together is part of the learning process.

Before I download that book from Audible, I think I'll see what beauty awaits in the next section of chapter 5 of, you know. How can I resist?

Lo adoptó como un hijo que había de compartir su soledad, y aliviarla del láudano involuntario que echaron sus súplicas desatinadas en el café de Remedios.
She adopted him as a son that was to share her solitude, and alleviate the involuntary laudanum that her senseless supplications put into the coffee of Remedios.
10 x
: 124 / 124 Cien años de soledad 20x
: 5479 / 5500 5500 pages - Reading
: 51 / 55 FSI Basic Spanish 3x
: 309 / 506 Camino a Macondo

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luke
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Re: Luke's very confused Spanish Learning Log

Postby luke » Sun Jan 23, 2022 11:57 pm

Okay, 6/8s done with FSI
You may be experiencing the fulfillment of a premonition, that one day you would hear luke announce he has finished 6/8s of the FSI Basic Spanish course. The force is strong in you.

: 25 / 124 Cien años de soledad (9x)
: 1089 / 1249 Vivir para contarla (2x)
: 58 / 352 El escándalo del siglo
: 43 / 55 FSI Basic Spanish
: 49 / 55 FSI Illustrations

I wrote all the exercises in unit 43 today, meaning it didn't take multiple days. I'd wanted to get them done days ago, but sometimes it just takes time.

Listening to Vivir para contarla at 85% speed makes it much easier to shadow. That helps me focus and pronounce vowels clearly. I finished chapter 7 of 8 today.

I spread out my reread/relisten/shadow of Cien años de soledad over the last 2 days, so one full week for chapter 5 (of 20). Glancing at the Anki prognostication, I could almost use 2 more days with no new cards. Chapter 6 comes in 5 sections. Seems doable in one week.

I've been carefully reading each section out loud, making memory cards. Later in the day, I relisten and usually shadow that same section. At the end of the week, I repeat the chapter as a whole. If I keep it up, I could count this run through the book as 3 trips.
11 x
: 124 / 124 Cien años de soledad 20x
: 5479 / 5500 5500 pages - Reading
: 51 / 55 FSI Basic Spanish 3x
: 309 / 506 Camino a Macondo

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luke
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Re: Luke's very confused Spanish Learning Log

Postby luke » Wed Jan 26, 2022 12:10 am

Cuentos (para niños) is ostensibly a selection of 6 short stories by, you know, that guy. I found it when I was searching for something on "the best" cuentos. Well, Gabriel García Márquez: Cuentos turned out to be a perfect conclusion to my search. The 6 short stories are in Todos los cuentos. One of the kind reviewers was helpful enough to enumerate the 6 titles.

I've marked up my textbook to easily identify them. Audible-wise, they range from 8 to 34 minutes. I did the first one tonight. It came from Los funerales de Mamá Grande, so I was already familiar with it. Listened to the audio while reading along. Made a few dots next to unknown words. There were about 10-12 in the 7 page story. I looked them up. Found pictures. Understand better what a Cordovan shoe is and where the name came from (Córdoba, España). Cross referenced my Cien años de soledad e-text to see where else these words might be coming up. Wrote the definitions in my book. Pleasant!

So how did I get this other track going?
: 1249 / 1249 Vivir para contarla (2x)

Yes, I finished another listen through Gabo's autobiography. Although I want to dig into it deeper, want some diversion first, and a little mixing of intensive and extensive. Now, one could say that little listen-read (Spanish-Spanish) was extensive - and a perfect fit - based on the number of "unknown words" per page, but by looking them up, I feel I'm continuing to fill in some vocabulary cracks and add richness to my reading.

The plan is to use these 6 stories and go into them deep enough to get a satisfying picture. Tomorrow, I'll listen to that first story, La siesta del martes on my walk.

So very interesting, a story about a mother and granddaughter going to lay claim on their son/Dad's body. The death was tragic. Well told. Not sure what age the book is meant to target, but, depending on reading ability and maturity, probably 12-16, if we have to say they are short stories for kids. Really, I think these 6 stories are meant to be an introduction to Gabo as an author and short stories a sensible way to get started.
10 x
: 124 / 124 Cien años de soledad 20x
: 5479 / 5500 5500 pages - Reading
: 51 / 55 FSI Basic Spanish 3x
: 309 / 506 Camino a Macondo


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