Xenops' Log

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tractor
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Re: Oslo

Postby tractor » Sun Aug 14, 2022 9:28 pm

Xenops wrote: She then took me to her favorite Norli bookstore, and I was impressed with the selection of language-learning books: I’ve never seen a bookstore carry Genki or Grammaire Progressive books before.

I went there a few weeks ago, but I was disappointed. Seemed to me that they had less language learning materials than they used to, at least for FIGS.
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Re: Oslo

Postby tungemål » Sun Aug 14, 2022 9:44 pm

Xenops wrote:Oslo, what I saw of it, made me think of Seattle: some old, some modern, lots of greenery, not so much past glory. It is unable to be pretentious. It is a place where you can buy an acai smoothie or a reindeer pelt (which I confess I was tempted to buy, if for nothing else a source of fur to pet in my pet-less home). I suppose as an American, Oslo seemed more familiar, whereas the other two cities will remind you that you are now in Europe.


Pretty good description of Oslo, allthough there is some architecture that reminds you of old Europe. Norway is really a country of nature and countryside. Most Norwegians prefer to live in single-family homes and not the big city. While Oslo tries to be a big city with history, culture and hip modernity, it doesn't quite manage to live up to other European cities. We who live outside of Oslo think of it as stressful and too many people, while foreigners think Oslo is calm and relaxing :)
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Stockholm

Postby Xenops » Mon Aug 15, 2022 9:37 am

Yesterday I think I felt both worn out on museums and shopping, so I went to Scansen, which is the Scandinavia’s largest open-air folk museum. My original intention was to take pictures of of the preserved residences, but I also visited the nordic animals. I was also curious to see the craftsmen at work, but I think I got there too early (around 11:00am), as they had not set up shop yet.

My goal for picture-taking was for references and possible story ideas for my comics. Since my human characters were alive about 130-120 years ago, and my non-human characters were born about 400 years ago, I look for historical references. My non-human characters also travelled, so setting a story in old Scandinavia is not unfeasible. I mostly took pictures of the farmsteads, and the inside when I could.

I can confirm that the Scandinavian elg looks just like the American moose. ;) Here the elg were fenced away from human reach but not sight, and I mused how I’ve seen seen moose in the wild less than 30 feet (10 meters) away. Both the elg and the bears lazed about, but the great-eared and the great grey owls kindly showed themselves, as did the wolverines and the otter. I did not see the lynx, but I did not expect too.

Still in the mood for reference-photos, I then went to the August Strindberg museum. He was a famous Swedish playwright, and he lived in the location of the museum (it might have been his last residence, if I remember correctly). Some of the information was in English, but most of it in Swedish. I thought it an interesting fact that he was anti-Semitic at one point, but later in life got in interested in Jewish Mysticism. The other part of the museum was preserved rooms of his apartment, most of the articles originally his.

About my impressions of Stockholm itself, it indeed felt «very European». The architecture is very impressive, and almost imposing. Or was I the intruder? Admittedly, this city brought the most culture shock of the three major cities I´ve visited. I felt I had a harder time to meld into the crowd than Copenhagen or Oslo. It could be that in the latter two, I could read and understand more of the signs and speech, whereas the written Swedish seemes truely foreign.

Today I am taking the scenic train ride to Malmö. It is dark and rainy outside, and I saw lightening flash more than once. I have been blessed with good weather so far on my trip, as Mista noted when I visited Oslo. I had a tiny bit of rain on my first day in Copenhagen, but it stopped quickly. On the train ride through Jutland, I think I saw an equal ratio between grain fields and woods: on this trip, I see more forests.


As a character from my comic noted about human tastes:

Image

…So I must admit that what I find familiar is biasing my preferences. As much as I like to go for the «more exotic» option, here I must confess that I find Oslo the most approachable city so far. It is interesting, because before the trip I had wound myself up in tizzy, thinking I would prefer the cultural hotspots Copenhagen and Stockholm…But spending a little time in each, I find I don´t prefer them. I´m finding myself opting for the place «most like home». Norway is also the country I have spent the least amount of time in—Oh well. Now that I´ve been here, I have a better idea of what I want, and how to plan future Norway trips.

Upon this realization, I find it a relief that I already have a background in Norwegian, and I already have resources. ;) Unless Malmö blows me away, let´s assume I will continue with norsk. Gaining a reading ability in Swedish would be useful, but I will save that for further down the road.

For down-time and relaxation, I have been watching the anime «Classroom of the Elite», which I have been really enjoying. Some dystopia aspects along with psychological twists are just my cup of tea. Some fanservice is a bit much, but I have to remember that anime is made for a Japanese audience, not an American one.
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Re: Oslo

Postby tractor » Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:16 am

Xenops wrote:The city is diverse enough. I have not encountered the homogenous population, but perhaps that is more present in smaller cities/towns.

The population is quite homogeneous in the more affluent neighbourhoods of the city.
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Re: Stockholm

Postby PeterMollenburg » Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:46 am

Xenops wrote: I must confess that I find Oslo the most approachable city so far. It is interesting, because before the trip I had wound myself up in tizzy, thinking I would prefer the cultural hotspots Copenhagen and Stockholm…But spending a little time in each, I find I don´t prefer them. I´m finding myself opting for the place «most like home». Norway is also the country I have spent the least amount of time in—Oh well. Now that I´ve been here, I have a better idea of what I want, and how to plan future Norway trips.

Upon this realization, I find it a relief that I already have a background in Norwegian, and I already have resources.


Interesting... I was almost expecting you to announce a full-scale assault on the Danish language declaring Danish/Denmark to be your prime target, Xenops. Yet I'm quietly satisfied with your gravitating towards Norwegian/Norway. I guess that must be because I'm studying the language like yourself and have a soft spot for the country of Norway, despite my -like yours- appreciation of the cultural, architectural and other definite positives found in other European centres. I think you're validating my (Scandanavian) preference. (Psst, I secretly still love some of the countries/languages further south a little more! shhhh). I've enjoyed your posts on your Scandanavian journey, Xenops and am curious to see what the future has in store for you!
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Malmo

Postby Xenops » Wed Aug 17, 2022 6:48 am

PeterMollenburg wrote:
Interesting... I was almost expecting you to announce a full-scale assault on the Danish language declaring Danish/Denmark to be your prime target, Xenops. Yet I'm quietly satisfied with your gravitating towards Norwegian/Norway. I guess that must be because I'm studying the language like yourself and have a soft spot for the country of Norway, despite my -like yours- appreciation of the cultural, architectural and other definite positives found in other European centres. I think you're validating my (Scandanavian) preference. (Psst, I secretly still love some of the countries/languages further south a little more! shhhh). I've enjoyed your posts on your Scandanavian journey, Xenops and am curious to see what the future has in store for you!


:D Me too! Before the trip, I was convincing myself that Denmark made the most sense—mainly in proximity to the rest of Europe. But making sense on paper and actually visiting the place, I guess there can be quite a difference. ;)

—————————————-

I think I am just getting tired: my updates are shorter, and my excursions shorter. Admittedly, I have been going non-stop for a while. Whereas at home with my regular schedule I’m better about pacing myself, here while travelling I’m not pacing myself at all. “I’m here! I must see as much as I can!”, while my body’s like “nope.”

I have been at Malmo (sorry, forgot to switch keyboard) for the past couple of days. I took the speed train from Stockholm to here. Just as we were passing through Lund, however, the train stopped. All the announcements were in Swedish, and I assumed that a train broke down ahead, so I just hunkered down and continued watching “High School of the Elite”. The minutes kept ticking by, so after an hour I asked a fellow passenger in English what was happening. Appearently there was an accident up ahead, and emergency services went in that direction. At some point the rumor was that we passengers would be shuttled to Malmo via bus, but after an hour and a half, the train moved forward and we arrived at our destination.

In Malmo there is a festival spanning the week, complete with an assortment of rides, cotton candy and venders. This was not planned on my part. Fortunately, I had booked a cheaper, single-occupancy room at Moment Hotel, which was nestled in the interior and was actually pretty quiet. I guess the hotel had been recently refurnished, and it looked it: simple and clean interiors with IKEA decor. My tiny room (I’m guessing 5 feet by 12 feet?) included my own toilet and shower. I admit my introvert self has enjoyed this private respite. I booked here because the Hostelworld app recommended by Nomadic Matt’s website did not have locations in Malmo, so I used Booking instead. I also used Booking to find a hostel in Oslo.

Malmo bears a strong resemblance to Stockholm, though perhaps a few more modern touches. The architecture is also impressive, and I would say the natives are more fashion conscious than people in Denmark or Oslo. I would also say, in my limited experience, the Swedes appear more reserved than their neighbors—but I also have to wonder if it has to do with my limited Swedish comprehension. I admit I feel more like a foreigner in Sweden merely because I know less of the language. I have attempted to speak Norwegian to Swedes, but whether it’s because of my pronunciation or unfamiliarity on the Swedes’ part, both of us end up confused. The conversation changes to English. So I stopped trying to use Norwegian in Sweden.

An observation that I noted here in Sweden, and I would need to check if it’s also the case in Denmark and Norway—but I’ve noticed more American restaurants in Sweden than in the other two. Not American with Swedish takes, but “Texas Longhorn”, “Freddy’s” and “Hot Rod Cafe”, and an abundance of burger places.

Prices of most items do seem cheaper here than in the other two countries—goodness, they might be cheaper than in Boston. The food prices in both Denmark and Norway were similar to Boston, but commodities were more expensive in Oslo. I did not compare alcohol prices, as I tend to drink once a month on average.

Today I take the train back to Copenhagen, and fly home tomorrow. I am thankful that I scheduled a 4-day weekend before I returned to work, because I feel I will need a “vacation to recover from the vacation”.
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Re: Malmo

Postby jeff_lindqvist » Wed Aug 17, 2022 9:35 am

Xenops wrote:Malmo bears a strong resemblance to Stockholm, though perhaps a few more modern touches. The architecture is also impressive, and I would say the natives are more fashion conscious than people in Denmark or Oslo. I would also say, in my limited experience, the Swedes appear more reserved than their neighbors—but I also have to wonder if it has to do with my limited Swedish comprehension. I admit I feel more like a foreigner in Sweden merely because I know less of the language. I have attempted to speak Norwegian to Swedes, but whether it’s because of my pronunciation or unfamiliarity on the Swedes’ part, both of us end up confused. The conversation changes to English. So I stopped trying to use Norwegian in Sweden.


This is as interesting as it is generalizing. Fashion conscious? Where? Who? What age group? Reserved? Again, where, who etc. I sometimes hear non-natives make assumptions of how "Swedes" are (and just as often I get questions what would be "the" Swedish way to act in a certain situation). :?

Another thing, "speaking Norwegian to Swedes" - and not getting the response you want (?) - is a variation on a theme we see on this forum (and HTLAL) now and then. (What's your Norwegian like?)

Talking to Swedes in Swedish (from HTLAL, April 2012!)

Xenops wrote:An observation that I noted here in Sweden, and I would need to check if it’s also the case in Denmark and Norway—but I’ve noticed more American restaurants in Sweden than in the other two. Not American with Swedish takes, but “Texas Longhorn”, “Freddy’s” and “Hot Rod Cafe”, and an abundance of burger places.


It might be true. The bigger cities probably have a little of everything, and especially Malmö, Gothenburg and Stockholm (including suburbs) will have restaurant chains you know very well.
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Xenops
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Home

Postby Xenops » Sat Aug 20, 2022 6:56 pm

jeff_lindqvist wrote:
This is as interesting as it is generalizing. Fashion conscious? Where? Who? What age group? Reserved? Again, where, who etc. I sometimes hear non-natives make assumptions of how "Swedes" are (and just as often I get questions what would be "the" Swedish way to act in a certain situation). :?


I apologize: I have tried to be objective and non-generalizing when I write my experiences, but it appears that I have failed. :(

_________________

I am home now. I wondered if I would experience some “reverse culture shock”, and what I did find is that in the US, there is a culture of threats. You see warning signs of “Don’t Do This, or be fined up to $$$” I also remembered how the security in the American airports can act like bullies. In contrast, when flying from Oslo to Stockholm, the security were more pleasant and professional. There appears to be less of a threat culture in the cities I saw—in Copenhagen, it’s an honor system that you pay for the train ticket, and nothing’s there to prevent you from getting on. Oslo was a little less trusting in this regard, and in Swedish cities, interestingly, you physically cannot enter most trains without paying at the gate, and conductors regularly checked tickets—similar system to Boston. The exception was the high-speed train from Stockholm to Malmö, where I must have paid at the gate (I don’t remember), but once on the train nobody checked to see if I was supposed to sit in this reserved seat.


Now I am home, and recovering. Next time I hope to not be so busy and go-go-go. I also move a week from today, so I need to make sure everything is packed and ready. Once things are settled, I will get back to Norwegian studies. My hour-each-way commute will be a 20-minute walk each way, so I hope to have more time in general. I also looked at possible Bergenstesten dates: the website says you can theoretically take the exam overseas, but doesn't provide a lot of specifics--it's up to me to contact universities and embassies and ask, "hey, could you monitor this test for me?" It looks like the separate speaking portion is done on Zoom now, so that's easier.

Korean has been haunting me again...It doesn’t help that despite my interest in Scandinavia and Japan, I do find (some) Korean men good-looking, including one at church... :?
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Re: Home

Postby tractor » Fri Oct 07, 2022 9:17 pm

Xenops wrote:There appears to be less of a threat culture in the cities I saw—in Copenhagen, it’s an honor system that you pay for the train ticket, and nothing’s there to prevent you from getting on. Oslo was a little less trusting in this regard, and in Swedish cities, interestingly, you physically cannot enter most trains without paying at the gate, and conductors regularly checked tickets—similar system to Boston. The exception was the high-speed train from Stockholm to Malmö, where I must have paid at the gate (I don’t remember), but once on the train nobody checked to see if I was supposed to sit in this reserved seat.

In Oslo there are no physical barrieres, and you can enter trains, metros, trams and local buses without a ticket. However, if you do get caught without a valid ticket, you will get heavily fined. On most trains you can buy tickets from the conductor, but it's more expensive than buying upfront.
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Re: Xenops' Log

Postby Elsa Maria » Fri Oct 14, 2022 5:08 pm

I just got caught up on reading your log, and I really enjoyed reading about your trip! I used to live in Aalborg, not far from the museum you visited. And it is super awesome that you were able to meet up with Mista.
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