kundalini's log

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Iversen
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Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1027
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Re: kundalini's log

Postby Iversen » Fri Feb 10, 2023 10:51 pm

kundalini wrote:Πριαμίδη, μὴ δή με ἕλωρ Δαναοῖσιν ἐάσῃς

I hope the translation is served with some serious footnotes - how should you else know that the Priamidi in the quoted line is Hector because he is son of king Priamos, or that the Greeks are called something like Danaids (or 'Danaoisins' after somebody called Danaos)?
2 x

kundalini
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Re: kundalini's log

Postby kundalini » Sat Feb 11, 2023 3:14 pm

Iversen wrote:
kundalini wrote:Πριαμίδη, μὴ δή με ἕλωρ Δαναοῖσιν ἐάσῃς

I hope the translation is served with some serious footnotes - how should you else know that the Priamidi in the quoted line is Hector because he is son of king Priamos, or that the Greeks are called something like Danaids (or 'Danaoisins' after somebody called Danaos)?


The Greeks are called Achaeans, Argives, and Danaans in Homer, and the suffix to Priam indicates that a son of Priam is being referred to, though according to Wikipedia, Priam had 68 sons! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_children_of_Priam.

You're right. Students typically read classics texts with commentaries that fill in a lot of such linguistic, historical, and cultural details, and the commentaries are usually as thick as the texts themselves.
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Iliad: 12 / 24

kundalini
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Re: kundalini's log

Postby kundalini » Wed Feb 15, 2023 4:20 am

I finished Book 6 today.

I teared up as I read Hector's wife Andromache, who has lost her entire family to the war, plead with him not to go back to the battlefield.

Ἕκτορ ἀτὰρ σύ μοί ἐσσι πατὴρ καὶ πότνια μήτηρ
ἠδὲ κασίγνητος, σὺ δέ μοι θαλερὸς παρακοίτης:
ἀλλ᾽ ἄγε νῦν ἐλέαιρε καὶ αὐτοῦ μίμν᾽ ἐπὶ πύργῳ,
μὴ παῖδ᾽ ὀρφανικὸν θήῃς χήρην τε γυναῖκα:

Hector, you are my father, my queen mother, my brother, and my young husband. Have pity on me and stay here in the citadel. Don't make your child an orphan and me a widow.

Book 6: 529 / 529
6 x
Iliad: 12 / 24

kundalini
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Re: kundalini's log

Postby kundalini » Sat Feb 25, 2023 6:10 pm

I'm roughly halfway through book 7. Progress has been slow because I've also been re-reading books 4 and 5, this time savoring the diction and imagery and the pageantry of characters, rather than focusing on understanding the text itself. I'm also finding a second pass to be very helpful with vocab retention.

Book7: 225 / 482
3 x
Iliad: 12 / 24

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Re: kundalini's log

Postby kundalini » Mon Feb 27, 2023 6:18 am

I finished book 7. An account of Trojans cremating their fallen comrades, followed by a loose translation.

Ἠέλιος μὲν ἔπειτα νέον προσέβαλλεν ἀρούρας
ἐξ ἀκαλαρρείταο βαθυρρόου Ὠκεανοῖο
οὐρανὸν εἰσανιών: οἳ δ᾽ ἤντεον ἀλλήλοισιν.
ἔνθα διαγνῶναι χαλεπῶς ἦν ἄνδρα ἕκαστον:
ἀλλ᾽ ὕδατι νίζοντες ἄπο βρότον αἱματόεντα
δάκρυα θερμὰ χέοντες ἀμαξάων ἐπάειραν.
οὐδ᾽ εἴα κλαίειν Πρίαμος μέγας: οἳ δὲ σιωπῇ
νεκροὺς πυρκαϊῆς ἐπινήνεον ἀχνύμενοι κῆρ,
ἐν δὲ πυρὶ πρήσαντες ἔβαν προτὶ Ἴλιον ἱρήν.

The newly arisen sun struck its rays upon the farmlands as it rose from the deep, soft-flowing ocean toward the sky. The Trojans came together, and struggled to identify each dead man. Hot tears falling from their faces, they washed the blood from the dead and loaded the bodies onto wagons. King Priam forbade them from openly weeping: in silence they heaped the bodies onto the funeral pyre and in silence they grieved in their hearts. After burning the bodies in the fire, they returned to Troy.

I find the language simple, noble, and entirely persuasive. Already I think the Iliad is the most compelling piece of literature I've encountered. I certainly prefer it by a considerable margin to the Aeneid, which, for all its impressive craftsmanship, I found to be a heavy-handed piece of state propaganda. I intentionally withheld myself from reading the Iliad in translation for many years, hoping one day to read it in the original. I'm glad I waited.

Book7: 482 / 482
6 x
Iliad: 12 / 24

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MorkTheFiddle
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Re: kundalini's log

Postby MorkTheFiddle » Tue Feb 28, 2023 5:45 pm

kundalini wrote:I certainly prefer it by a considerable margin to the Aeneid, which, for all its impressive craftsmanship, I found to be a heavy-handed piece of state propaganda.Book7: 482 / 482
I found Aeneid simply dull, in spite of the craftsmanship. ;)
1 x
Many things which are false are transmitted from book to book, and gain credit in the world. -- attributed to Samuel Johnson

kundalini
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Re: kundalini's log

Postby kundalini » Sat Mar 04, 2023 3:49 am

Up to line 200 in book 8. Not a whole lot of excitement so far. I'm curious to see where this chapter goes.

Book 8: 200 / 561
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Iliad: 12 / 24

kundalini
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Re: kundalini's log

Postby kundalini » Sun Mar 05, 2023 5:17 am

I read through line 337 of book 8. In contrast to book 6, where Hector is shown as a gentle family man, he's appears as a formidable warrior in the battle scenes so far, and quite a trash talker, too.

Book 8: 337 / 561
3 x
Iliad: 12 / 24

kundalini
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Re: kundalini's log

Postby kundalini » Mon Mar 06, 2023 6:54 am

Up to 8.400. So far, this book has been a slog, both in terms of narrative, with too many lines devoted to the bickering of the gods, and in terms of language, with many unknown words and idiomatic phrases.

Book 8: 400 / 561
5 x
Iliad: 12 / 24

kundalini
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Re: kundalini's log

Postby kundalini » Tue Mar 07, 2023 5:26 am

Finished book 8. I'm not sure what to make of the gods in the Iliad. Their descriptions seem frivolous to the point of levity--the whining, bickering, and the threats that occur among the gods seem more like comic relief to me--in stark contrast to the descriptions of human pathos in the Iliad. All in all, book 8 was a letdown in comparison the last two books, but the final lines grabbed me by the collar with their suspense. Trojans have the upper hand and are camped out on the field at night, ready to attack the Greeks should they attempt to escape by sea.

χίλι᾽ ἄρ᾽ ἐν πεδίῳ πυρὰ καίετο, πὰρ δὲ ἑκάστῳ
εἴατο πεντήκοντα σέλᾳ πυρὸς αἰθομένοιο.
ἵπποι δὲ κρῖ λευκὸν ἐρεπτόμενοι καὶ ὀλύρας
ἑσταότες παρ᾽ ὄχεσφιν ἐΰθρονον Ἠῶ μίμνον.

Loose translation:

A thousand campfires burned in the field. By the light of each fire sat fifty men. Their horses fed on pale barley and rye as they stood by the chariots, waiting for the beautiful throne of dawn to arrive.

Book 8: 561 / 561

On to book 9!
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Iliad: 12 / 24


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