Pinkyslippers' 2021 study log (Spanish, Korean, French)

Continue or start your personal language log here, including logs for challenge participants
clara
Yellow Belt
Posts: 96
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2020 4:46 am
Languages: English (N), Spanish (intermediate)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... hp?t=16333
x 457

Re: Pinkyslippers' 2021 study log (Spanish, Korean, French)

Postby clara » Sun May 09, 2021 6:29 pm

Interesting, I didn't realize Italki had language proficiency tests! How does it compare to other online tests? I see that it's not free. Having done it, would you do it again vs. paying for an Italki session with a tutor who specializes in DELE evaluation? I have been thinking of doing the latter, but then I keep talking myself out of it saying it wouldn't change anything since I know I have a lot of room for improvement in all the skills.

Good luck with your reading and listening challenge! I suspect a lot of people would prefer a listening challenge to the structure of the Super Challenge and that you're not alone. I do like that Netflix makes it easy to track because it keeps a history. I tracked other sources of listening for a couple weeks and found it eye opening to put some numbers to it -- way less than I suspected. I guess Youtube also keeps a history if you are signed in, but I'm often not, and I tune out a lot during Youtube videos or leave them running in the background so my history isn't representative of what I've actually listened to.
2 x
Spanish Goals
22/23 SC Films: 438 / 18000 438 / 18000 minutes
22/23 SC Books: 6454 / 10000 6454 / 10000 pages
2022 Reading: 8061 / 8000 8061 / 10000 8000 pages

clara
Yellow Belt
Posts: 96
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2020 4:46 am
Languages: English (N), Spanish (intermediate)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... hp?t=16333
x 457

Re: Pinkyslippers' 2021 study log (Spanish, Korean, French)

Postby clara » Tue May 11, 2021 4:27 pm

Thanks for the link to the discussion about the test, lots of great info! I was curious how the Italki test might compare to the DELE since they both attempt to gauge CEFR level. Unfortunately, the nearest Cervantes Institute is a flight away for me, and I don't know if they're even currently staffed.

Don't feel lazy! I have lots of free time and can get a bit obsessive, I know it won't last. I'm impressed by those who have been going steadily for years, no matter the pace.
2 x
Spanish Goals
22/23 SC Films: 438 / 18000 438 / 18000 minutes
22/23 SC Books: 6454 / 10000 6454 / 10000 pages
2022 Reading: 8061 / 8000 8061 / 10000 8000 pages

User avatar
MorkTheFiddle
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2109
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:59 pm
Location: North Texas USA
Languages: English (N). Read (only) French and Spanish. Studying Ancient Greek. Studying a bit of Latin. Once studied Old Norse. Dabbled in Catalan, Provençal and Italian.
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 11#p133911
x 4806

Re: Pinkyslippers' 2021 study log (Spanish, Korean, French)

Postby MorkTheFiddle » Tue Jun 01, 2021 6:45 pm

pinkyslippers wrote:May 2021 review
I downloaded the TV5 Monde Apprendre app and spent some time playing with it. It shows clips of TV shows (you can choose by theme) which you listen to and then have to answer questions. Considering it is completely free it seems excellent to me.

Agreed it is excellent. Thanks for mentioning it. I just downloaded the app and did the first lesson of the A1 level about smoking in public in Canada. Embarrassing to understand so little of the spoken dialogue, even though I enjoyed the challenge of the dialogue and the questions.

The app has some similarities to LUPA, which I subscribed to for a year, which has some extraordinary stories and which challenges in a pleasant way. "Easy" though it seems, I find it taxing on the brain to do more than one story at a time. But I was wanting to find something similar for French, and TV5's app seems to fill the bill.
1 x
Many things which are false are transmitted from book to book, and gain credit in the world. -- attributed to Samuel Johnson

User avatar
Araminta
White Belt
Posts: 44
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2021 5:45 pm
Location: California, Estados Unidos
Languages: English (N) Español (intermediate)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 2ec7b88c80
x 132

Re: Pinkyslippers' 2021 study log (Spanish, Korean, French)

Postby Araminta » Tue Jun 01, 2021 7:05 pm

I love your charts and graphs. How do you keep track of how much time you spend on each category? Do you use an app? I aspire to gather so much data to play with.
1 x

User avatar
Araminta
White Belt
Posts: 44
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2021 5:45 pm
Location: California, Estados Unidos
Languages: English (N) Español (intermediate)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 2ec7b88c80
x 132

Re: Pinkyslippers' 2021 study log (Spanish, Korean, French)

Postby Araminta » Wed Jun 02, 2021 2:57 pm

pinkyslippers wrote:
Araminta wrote:I love your charts and graphs. How do you keep track of how much time you spend on each category? Do you use an app? I aspire to gather so much data to play with.


Thanks! :) Honestly, when I am at home I just use a digital kitchen timer which sits on my desk, and then the data goes in a spreadsheet and a pivot table makes it look pretty, but some people here use the ATracker app (which creates very pretty graphs) and I think some people use Toggl Track app too.

I look forward to seeing your graphs :D


Good to know about those apps. And you sound like a very organized learner. I love data and I need to find a system to help me collect it. Fried brain cells from my job make that difficult these days, but there is a light at the end of the tunnel this summer. It would fantastic to see the relationship between what / how long I study and my growth.
1 x

User avatar
luke
Brown Belt
Posts: 1243
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2015 9:09 pm
Languages: English (N). Spanish (intermediate), Esperanto (B1), French (intermediate but rusting)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=16948
x 3629

Re: Pinkyslippers' 2021 study log (Spanish, Korean, French)

Postby luke » Fri Jun 18, 2021 9:20 am

You're a very good writer. Apparently all the reading and probably your writing are paying off.

Although the iTalki experience with the "tutor" was disenchanting, your assessment of the assessor is insightful.

Your plans make perfect sense to me.

You cheered me up this morning. Thank you for that.

Suerte y fortuna, amiga!
3 x

User avatar
rdearman
Site Admin
Posts: 7223
Joined: Thu May 14, 2015 4:18 pm
Location: United Kingdom
Languages: English (N)
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1836
x 23092
Contact:

Re: Pinkyslippers' 2021 study log (Spanish, Korean, French)

Postby rdearman » Wed Jul 07, 2021 9:51 am

Why not wander around the Spanish garden again? Why the pressure for B2 or whatever? It reminds me of my lackadaisical wanders around French and Italian. I could schedule a test, I could spend ages clocking time and reading grammar books. Or I could just continue to read in the language, chat with friends via language exchanges, and generally meander in the direction of C2 nirvana. I know your pain though. I frequently look at this forum with people who learn 2 languages per hour and go up one level a week. They spend 4 hours with a grammar book and a pomodoro timer shoving words and grammar into their brain. Luckily for me, my lazy streak kicks in and brings these thoughts to an end.

I don't see why I should turn my hobby into a job. I have enough stress in my life, why add more? So it has taken me 15 years to get to B2 level in a couple of languages. I didn't stress about it. I can stop anytime and often do for long periods. The world didn't end, the C1 police didn't come marching to my door screaming "Au travail !". I just picked it up later and carried on with my little walk. Like Abe Lincoln: "I Walk Slowly, But I Never Walk Backward".

“If you do not change direction, you may end up where you are heading” ― Siddhārtha Gautama
8 x
: 0 / 150 Read 150 books in 2024

My YouTube Channel
The Autodidactic Podcast
My Author's Newsletter

I post on this forum with mobile devices, so excuse short msgs and typos.

Christi
Orange Belt
Posts: 245
Joined: Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:56 pm
Languages: Dutch (N), English (C1), German (B1), Korean (high A2-low B1?)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... php?t=7574
x 330

Re: Pinkyslippers' 2021 study log (Spanish, Korean, French)

Postby Christi » Wed Jul 07, 2021 9:40 pm

I agree with everyone else here, that teacher was a ****.

I hope your Spanish garden will be filled with fun, colorful flowers!

As an aside, you mention using Storytel for your Spanish (audio)books. Do you live in Spain? I also use Storytel, but as far as I can tell I have no access to Spanish books. Or is a it a matter of having to search for a specific title?
3 x
2020 resolution words learned: 472 / 1000
Pages read at end of 2020: 220 / 1500

Caromarlyse
Green Belt
Posts: 387
Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:31 pm
Languages: English (N), French (C1-ish), German (B2/C1-ish), Russian (B1-ish), Portuguese (B1-ish), Welsh (complete beginner), Spanish (in hibernation)
(All levels estimates and given as a guide only)
x 1611

Re: Pinkyslippers' 2021 study log (Spanish, Korean, French)

Postby Caromarlyse » Thu Jul 08, 2021 6:41 am

pinkyslippers wrote:I had some iTalki credits to use up so I booked a conversation class with a Spanish tutor. He said I had a number of fossilised errors and that the best thing would be for me to stop learning, “take everything out of my head, clean it, and put it back again”. In practice this would mean starting again from scratch at A1 and re-learning everything from the beginning. He also said I needed some phonetics training, which shocked me a bit as no one has ever commented on that before, and that, “at your age” :( , it won’t be too easy. I asked if he meant my accent was bad and he shrugged and made the equivalent sort of doubtful noise a plumber makes to mean ‘this is going to be expensive’. My regular language partner has never said that I didn’t speak clearly, but now I am feeling rather paranoid about it.

He said an example of one of the fossilised errors was me saying ‘yo misma’ when I should be saying ‘mí misma’, so this was a useful practical bit of feedback (although I’m still not entirely clear on the difference). He also said my goals weren’t clear, and so I said maybe I could work towards taking the SIELE exam and he made a ‘pfft’ sound and said this wasn’t a real challenge, “you just sit in front of a computer, beep boop”. He asked me why I study Spanish and I answered, “for intellectual stimulation and to read books”. He said I should read graded readers, and I said (probably a bit haughtily) that I didn’t need graded readers and that I usually found them very boring, which I suppose came across quite rude. Things deteriorated from there. Honestly the whole situation made me feel quite depressed and reinforced that internal feeling I have that every ‘real life’ social interaction I have (in any language) is a complete disaster. I had booked a “conversation” class but he spent 75% of it talking and blowing smoke up his own ass and telling me all the big companies he has worked for and that some of his students had taken over 200 classes with him (not so surprising if everyone has to start from scratch). I’ve logged it as 25 minutes of speaking in my tracker but I’m not sure it was even that much. I’ve decided that I’m done with iTalki for now and done with speaking too, apart from my longstanding language exchange partner. What does it matter? It’s not like I have any travel planned anytime soon and I have enough Spanish to handle all the touristy transactions, and it doesn’t really matter if these are not perfect. I’m headed back to Hermitville with my books. I may be some time.


I've had three such terrible experiences when going to a new tutor as not a beginner. I went to one, having told him I had reached a high level in the past (demonstrable by results achieved academically) and had picked up the language again recently, reading a (named) book, so my passive knowledge was good and all the framework was there but I was rusty. He responded by having me read a A1/A2 level text in class, taken from a magazine for learners. He also told me I couldn't pronounce the word for kitchen, and made a thing of that, but with the result that I ended up feeling bad about it but didn't leave being able to pronounce it correctly. He also clearly wanted to show me how to borrow e-books for free, and even though I told him I already knew about the exact same source he wanted to tell me about, he went through a screen-share demonstration of how to do it. He also kept using English, when I'd shown no signs of needing it (and definitely did not need it).

Another was particularly unpleasant during the class, but I don't actually remember much because it was so bad that I think I've suppressed the memory! What she did do, however, was send me homework after class, and that included a A1 graded reader text (my name is John, I have a wife, I am from Canada, this is Susan, she is John's wife, etc) even though I'd said I was working with B1 materials. She also made a massive deal about the need to make friends in the TL when, like you, that's not really my need/focus/something I'd necessarily wholly enjoy.

Finally, another one, when again I'd said I was working with B1 materials, stopped me partway through to ask if I was actually sure I had completed A2 and had I actually passed a test. He also, without having asked me how much I was doing, went on about how much time I'd have to spend a day if I wanted to be any good - as he would have known had he asked, I was already pretty much at his figure, so that clearly was not going to be the panacea. After this one, I tried out a few more in the days afterwards, who were much more pleasant, and, unsurprisingly, not having started with a negative outlook and having made me feel comfortable, their assessments were far higher. They were able to see my weaknesses as weaknesses in certain areas, but those did not blind them to strengths I had in other areas.

I've come to the conclusion that the issue comes down to (critical) judgment. Assess away and give feedback, no problem, but there is no need for judgment. The need for lack of judgment extends to people's reasons for learning too. If I say I want to learn a language (and have months/years of effort to show), then there is no need to question whether the goals are "proper".

I think such critiques also evince a lack of experience/understanding. There is "noise" in assessment - the same person can be evaluated by different people in wildly different ways. And once you get beyond beginner, abilities start to diverge. A textbook I've just bought (and I don't even have the excuse of being half asleep when I did so), which is roughly B1 moving towards B2 level, says in the introduction that at this stage learners vary a lot, with it being expected for students to have different strengths and weaknesses.

I got back on the horse after all of these experiences, and in some cases managed to find really good people I'm now working with, but it is very tiring and tiresome having to deal with not-uncommon experiences like the above!
7 x

Christi
Orange Belt
Posts: 245
Joined: Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:56 pm
Languages: Dutch (N), English (C1), German (B1), Korean (high A2-low B1?)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... php?t=7574
x 330

Re: Pinkyslippers' 2021 study log (Spanish, Korean, French)

Postby Christi » Sun Jul 11, 2021 11:27 pm

pinkyslippers wrote:
Thanks! I'm based in the UK, but registered on Storytel.es and set my location as Spain (no doubt this is a bit dodgy in terms of licensing agreements etc :? ). I really love it, it's less than 7 euros a month and for that I get unlimited audiobooks and ebooks in Spanish, Catalan and Euskara. I also seem to have access to the English content if I search for it but I don't tend to use it for that. I don't know if it is possible to switch between locations or not on the app, I couldn't see a way of doing it.


I see. I don't I will be able to change my location since I already have a subscription and the pricing here is different too.
Guess I'll just give podcasts a try then!
0 x
2020 resolution words learned: 472 / 1000
Pages read at end of 2020: 220 / 1500


Return to “Language logs”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: kraemder and 3 guests