Daniele's log: Slovene

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Daniele
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Daniele's log: Slovene

Postby Daniele » Mon Feb 01, 2021 11:08 am

Hi everyone!
In the end of December I've embarked in this crazy mission of learning Slovene.

Difficulties:
    - scarcity of learning material for any level :shock:
    - unnecessarily complicated grammar, highly inflected, six cases on three genders and three numbers (singular, plural and dual), a lot of irregularities. I don't know other slavic languages, but I think this is not an easy one. For sure not easier than Serbo-Croation.
    - lots of dialects, it seems that virtually nobody really speaks the "official" language
    - young Slovenes speak English really good

Advantages:
    - I live near the border, I go to Slovenia regularly I have friends there
    - The phonetic is quite easy. Most of the sounds are the same as in Italian. To me, it actually sounds as if an Italian is speaking a slavic language. This makes it also less exotic though :D
    - It's a minority language in Trieste, so there is a library and a bookstore :geek:

Learning material:
Découvrir et pratiquer le slovène: this is a French course, Assimil style. It's more or less 100 dialogues with translation and audio, along with some grammar explanation. Unfortunately, it's a Flash based application, so it doesn't work anymore :P BUT I gathered all the dialogues and audio files from the program folders and arranged in a more accessible way. It took some time but... I think this is the best available resource. In case you need it, I can send it to you.
I use a routine that I got from an old post by Luca Lampariello (which I can't find anymore):
Day one: I listen to dialogue A and try to write down what I understand, then check if it's correct. I try to understand the meaning and I read the grammar notes.
Day two: I translate dialogue A to my mother tongue using a dictionary, and than check if it's correct. Then I listen to dialogue B and do the same as day one - dictation.
Day three: I translate dialogue A back to Slovene. I translate dialogue B to my mother tongue. I listen to dialogue C and do the dictation.
And so on. I also regularly listen to the audio files in my free time and sometimes do shadowing.
Colloquial Slovene: this is also a good resource, but there are only 50 dialogues. I use it the same way as the French course, only when I have spare time and I want to do some more practice. The dialogues are also a bit more fast and difficult to understand.
Qlango: it's a flashcard app, the best one for Slovene (there is no much choice anyway :D ). I like the fact that you only translate from English to Slovene and not vice-versa. I also like that it shows you over and over the same flashcard until you can make it with no hints. Unfortunately, there are no audio nor accents in the text.
"Anna in Slovenia" and "ABCslovene" have some very good grammar explanations.
Peter Herrity's "Slovene: A Comprehensive Grammar", not very readable, but comprehensive indeed :D
https://besana.amebis.si/pregibanje/ for inflections
https://www.termania.net/ and https://it.pons.com/traduzione/italiano-sloveno, online dictionaries
https://ebralec.si/branje/ speech synthesizer

My notebook:
notebook.jpg
notebook.jpg (56.31 KiB) Viewed 450 times


I've completed 40 lessons out of 100 from "Découvrir..." so far. I can have very basic conversations over the phone and on whatsapp, which is very satisfying. :)
Last edited by Daniele on Sat Feb 20, 2021 7:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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oho
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Re: Daniele's log

Postby oho » Thu Feb 04, 2021 5:17 pm

Ciao, alla fine ho deciso di riprendere anche io lo sloveno :P quindi leggerò il tuo log con interesse. Ti ringrazio di avermi fatto scoprire la libreria slovena di Trieste, anche se vivo abbastanza lontano da Trieste adesso so dove potrò comprare libri online in sloveno quando avrò raggiunto il necessario livello, e magari se farò un giro da quelle parte mi ricorderò sicuramente di passarci di persona.

Ah, per quanto riguarda i dizionari molto buono è anche PONS.

- unnecessarily complicated grammar, highly inflected, six cases on three genders and three numbers (singular, plural and dual), a lot of irregularities. I don't know other slavic languages, but I think this is not an easy one.


Trovo molto affascinante che abbia il duale. Non so quante altre lingue slave lo hanno. Il russo ad esempio non lo ha, se non ricordo male dai miei esigui e brevi studi di russo.
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Re: Daniele's log

Postby AroAro » Fri Feb 05, 2021 7:49 am

oho wrote:Trovo molto affascinante che abbia il duale. Non so quante altre lingue slave lo hanno. Il russo ad esempio non lo ha, se non ricordo male dai miei esigui e brevi studi di russo.


Infatti, lo sloveno e l'unica lingua slava ad aver conservato il duale. Le altre lingue lo hanno perso - pero ci sono alcune forme del duale che esistono ancora nel polacco ma solo nei proverbi e quindi non si usano ogni giorno.
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oho
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Re: Daniele's log

Postby oho » Fri Feb 05, 2021 8:29 am

AroAro wrote:
oho wrote:Trovo molto affascinante che abbia il duale. Non so quante altre lingue slave lo hanno. Il russo ad esempio non lo ha, se non ricordo male dai miei esigui e brevi studi di russo.


Infatti, lo sloveno e l'unica lingua slava ad aver conservato il duale. Le altre lingue lo hanno perso - pero ci sono alcune forme del duale che esistono ancora nel polacco ma solo nei proverbi e quindi non si usano ogni giorno.


Interessante! Pensavo che quantomeno qualche altra lingua slava meridionale tipo croato o macedone lo avesse conservato. Questo rende lo sloveno ancora più affascinante.
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Daniele
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Re: Daniele's log

Postby Daniele » Fri Feb 05, 2021 8:10 pm

oho wrote:
AroAro wrote:
oho wrote:Trovo molto affascinante che abbia il duale. Non so quante altre lingue slave lo hanno. Il russo ad esempio non lo ha, se non ricordo male dai miei esigui e brevi studi di russo.


Infatti, lo sloveno e l'unica lingua slava ad aver conservato il duale. Le altre lingue lo hanno perso - pero ci sono alcune forme del duale che esistono ancora nel polacco ma solo nei proverbi e quindi non si usano ogni giorno.


Interessante! Pensavo che quantomeno qualche altra lingua slava meridionale tipo croato o macedone lo avesse conservato. Questo rende lo sloveno ancora più affascinante.


Anche il Sorabo. Una cosa interessante, che ho scoperto oggi: sebbene il Sorabo sia parlato da un 20-30.000 persone, è disponibile un sito gratuito per imparare il Sorabo fatto meglio di qualsiasi risorsa online si possa trovare per lo Sloveno: https://sprachkurs.sorbischlernen.de/#/homebase :D
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Daniele
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Re: Daniele's log

Postby Daniele » Sat Feb 06, 2021 3:26 pm

Update

Slovene:

Découvrir et Pratiquer: proceeding steadily, advancing one dialogue a day. Now I’ve almost completed the first half. I want to adhere to the rule “Stick to One Resource”. I think this rule holds even more true when there are few learning resources, as the feeling of scarcity constantly push you to look for new material, even if it’s not needed. Therefore I postponed Colloquial Slovene until after I complete Découvrir et Pratiquer.

QLango: I’m doing at least 7 units a day. I feel this app works better than Anki for me, as it pushes me to actually write down the exact translation every time.

Other: slowly translating the song “S teboi” by Zalagasper

Passive: listening to Slovene FM radio stations while driving (sometimes I get Val 202 and Radio Prvi, besides the local minority’s broadcast Radio Trst A)

Plans for the future:
More chatting with Slovene friends. Though it still takes a lot of energies now
Write some texts on Italki
Read Miha Mazzini’s Novel “Crumb” and maybe find the audiobook
Check out “S slovenščino po svetu” book from the library - apparently it's for intermediate/advanced learners

A note. After years of mutual hatred and oppression, it’s no suprise that Slovenes have tried to clean their (official) language from Italian words, as they did with German ones (although germanisms survive in daily speech, see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eg_gsoSNPC4). Nevertheless, it’s nice to see that some of them survived in the most innocent habit of having a skodelica (from scoldella, cup) of coffee with a torta (same as Italian torta, pie) or some piškot (from biscotti, biscuits).
(I also imagine there are more words to find in the maritime vocabulary, like barka from barca - boat, since the coastal cities were all Venetians).

German and French maintenance:
Reading Herr Lehmann by Sven Regener
Watching a French documentary film on Arte.tv

Daily practice with Découvrir et Pratiquer le Slovene:
photo5832630506854921834.jpg
photo5832630506854921834.jpg (142.52 KiB) Viewed 243 times
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Iversen
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Re: Daniele's log

Postby Iversen » Sat Feb 06, 2021 6:11 pm

Infatti, lo sloveno non è l'unica lingua slava ad aver conservato il duale. C'è un duale anche nelle lingue sorabe ...
EDIT: Ahimè, ora vedo che Daniele già ha menzionato le lingue degli Sorbi.

Io ho solo due libri di/in sloveno, cioè l'Assimil sloveno in lingua italiana ed una guida alle grotte di Postojna, e la lingua in essa contenuta non sembra troppo difficile da leggere quando conosci un po 'di serbo. Ma non ho ancora comminciato a studiare la lingua slovena stessa.
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Daniele
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Re: Daniele's log

Postby Daniele » Sun Feb 14, 2021 4:54 pm

scegli una scuola slovena.jpg
scegli una scuola slovena.jpg (51.76 KiB) Viewed 140 times

Izberi šolo z slovenskim učnim jezikom! Choose a school with Slovene as teaching language! An advertising poster in Trieste, Italy
In Triest and Gorizia, more and more Italian parents enroll their children in Slovene schools. A good result for what somebody still call, in a derogatory way, "la lingua degli sciavi". On the other hand, across the border, in the Slovenian Primorska region, Italian is on decline. Still another sign that Triest is not the economical center of the region anymore.

Update

Découvrir et Pratiquer: proceeding. Almost completing Module 3 of 5.

QLango: Proceeding with 7 units a day (for most of the days).

Other:
    I do some work as physical therapist in a retirement home. I found out that one of the ladies is from the Slovene minority. She is sitll cognitively OK and I manage to practice a little bit with her. So fun! :)
    I tried to post a text on Lang-8 and Langcorrect. No corrections so far :( I used Lang-8 a lot for German and French, it's a pity I don't get corrections for Slovene.
    Watched some videos by ABCSlovene

Passive: listening to Slovene FM radio stations while driving
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Daniele
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Re: Daniele's log: Slovene

Postby Daniele » Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:32 pm

quadrilinguismo.jpg
quadrilinguismo.jpg (25.58 KiB) Viewed 63 times

A quadrilingual road sign with Italian, German, Slovene and a fourth (romance) language... guess which one!

Update

Slovene

Découvrir et Pratiquer le Slovene: Finished module 3 of 5. What I love about this course is that, at the end of every module (which contains 16 Assimil-style dialogues) there are a few literary texts, folk songs, recipes, etc. Very nice!
Still practicing flashcards with QLango
I also wrote a text on Langcorrect and got one correction after one week. No corrections on Italki.

German

I wrote some texts on Lang-8 and finished reading Herr Lehrmann. I think it's really a good novel if you are a German B2/C1: a lot of dialogues, colloquial but not vulgar, light but not superficial. And you can watch the movie afterwards.
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