Mówię po polsku

[tungemål]

Thanks.
I won't pretend to be a Pole, but anyway it's good to try to get the pronunciation right from the beginning. I'll try to improve the words you mention.

Actually I was going for "ma wiatr słaby" because I thought "ma" could mean "there is". "nie ma" means "there isn't", right?

[cjareck]

Thanks.
I won't pretend to be a Pole, but anyway it's good to try to get the pronunciation right from the beginning. I'll try to improve the words you mention.

You're right. But remember that you are struggling to improve from excellent to perfect

Actually I was going for "ma wiatr słaby" because I thought "ma" could mean "there is". "nie ma" means "there isn't", right?

I think you're only partially right. "ma" means simply "it has got". "There isn't" you may use "nie ma". For "there is" I would rather say "jest," so: "Jest słaby wiatr" or "Nie ma wiatru."

[tungemål]

I'm at chapter 15 of 20.

I had forgotten a lot of words since last time I studied Polish. It is by the way much harder to learn vocabulary in Polish, than in Spanish or German (for me). A lot of completely new vocabulary to learn.

I feel like I'm understanding Polish better now, however. Grammar structures and so on feel more natural. And the words that I had forgotten quickly come back.

Polish has a lot of reflexive verbs. The reflexive pronoun is "się". What confused me is that this pronoun is the same for all persons, while in other languages I know there is a different pronoun for each of the 6 persons. It's also similar to the 3rd person sg reflexive pronoun in Norwegian ("seg") or Spanish ("se") so I'm automatically thinking 3rd person when I see it.

[tungemål]

So far I've finished chapter 17. Starting at 18 now.

Polish grammar is hard, but in a way I don't find it difficult to understand the concepts. Maybe because I'm used to thinking in cases in German. But to get used to the case endings will take some time. The problem is, when reading, it is not always easy to see what case is used, because one ending can be shared by different cases. Well, so far I only read my textbook, but later I'll probably do the Lingq ministories.

[lusan]

I'll probably do the Lingq ministories.

They are pretty nice. I enjoyed them.

[tungemål]

Hi.
I have slacked off with my Polish studies lately, but now I should finish the 2 chapters that I've got left.

A short question on pronounciation: dwa pokoje z kuchnią.
Will the "z" be pronounced voiced here, or does it become an "s" because of the consonant following? I seem to be able to say either "z-guchnią" or "s-kuchnią" since the voiced "z" makes the "k" into a "g".

[AroAro]

A short question on pronounciation: dwa pokoje z kuchnią.
Will the "z" be pronounced voiced here, or does it become an "s" because of the consonant following? I seem to be able to say either "z-guchnią" or "s-kuchnią" since the voiced "z" makes the "k" into a "g".

"z" becomes "s" because of the voiceless consonant "k" that follows. The preposition is glued to the noun that comes next and they're pronounced as one - "skuchnią".

[Saim]

That's a good question. The general rule regarding the nasal vowels "ę" and "ą" is that they are always distinctly pronounced in the middle of the word. (=>the exception is when these vowels are before the consonants "l" and "ł", e.g. "wzięli" and "wziął" are pronounced as "wźeli" and "wźoł" - they took/he took).

I'm not sure if it's an issue of whether it's in the middle.

Ę and ą are pronounced as e or o followed by a nasalised glide before fricatives (f, s, ś, sz, h, ch, w, z, ź, ż), as e or o + n before most stops (b p t d; and I think also affricates?) and e or o + ŋ before velar stops (k, g).

When the nasal vowels appear at the end of the word - "ą" is always pronounced

This is also subject to a lot of variation.

A lot of people pronounce it the same way as it's pronounced before fricatives. This is the most prestigious variant and the one you'll hear most on TV but I'm not sure it's the majority variant.
Others pronounce it as -om, as far as I can tell this is especially common in southern and western Poland.
Others pronounce it as o + a glide but don't nasalise it (so something like oł). I've noticed that some speakers actually can't tell the difference between this and the TV pronunciation, so many people may be under the impression that they say ɔw̃ when they're actually saying ɔw.

[AroAro]

That's a good question. The general rule regarding the nasal vowels "ę" and "ą" is that they are always distinctly pronounced in the middle of the word. (=>the exception is when these vowels are before the consonants "l" and "ł", e.g. "wzięli" and "wziął" are pronounced as "wźeli" and "wźoł" - they took/he took).

I'm not sure if it's an issue of whether it's in the middle.

Ę and ą are pronounced as e or o followed by a nasalised glide before fricatives (f, s, ś, sz, h, ch, w, z, ź, ż), as e or o + n before most stops (b p t d; and I think also affricates?) and e or o + ŋ before velar stops (k, g).

Yes, it seems that the exact pronunciation of a nasalised sound depends on the consonant that follows or preceds it but as a native speaker I was not even aware of that (sometimes, native speakers know very little about their language). However, in my opinion it's safer to always nasalize these sounds in the middle of a word (except before "l" and "ł") than say "zomb" instead of "ząb" for example - that would sound very awkward to me. In fact, before "b" and other stops the upper and lower lips come closer to each other but never touch to say the sound "m".

When the nasal vowels appear at the end of the word - "ą" is always pronounced

This is also subject to a lot of variation.

A lot of people pronounce it the same way as it's pronounced before fricatives. This is the most prestigious variant and the one you'll hear most on TV but I'm not sure it's the majority variant.
Others pronounce it as -om, as far as I can tell this is especially common in southern and western Poland.
Others pronounce it as o + a glide but don't nasalise it (so something like oł). I've noticed that some speakers actually can't tell the difference between this and the TV pronunciation, so many people may be under the impression that they say ɔw̃ when they're actually saying ɔw.

You're right, in southern Poland, especially in rural areas, some people may say -om or even simply -o (as a fun fact, the Miechów district was known to have lost the nasal sounds altogether before 2WW but the primary schools available to everyone in 50'-60' helped revive it there) but it's not advisable to do so. It immediately reveals that the person comes from a rural/underdeveloped area (not that it's something to be ashamed of but it tells something about the background of that person).

[Saim]

Yes, it seems that the exact pronunciation of a nasalised sound depends on the consonant that follows or preceds it but as a native speaker I was not even aware of that (sometimes, native speakers know very little about their language). However, in my opinion it's safer to always nasalize these sounds in the middle of a word (except before "l" and "ł") than say "zomb" instead of "ząb" for example - that would sound very awkward to me. In fact, before "b" and other stops the upper and lower lips come closer to each other but never touch to say the sound "m".

That may be true for the citational form of the word, or how you would pronounce the word in isolation, but that's often influenced by schooling and orthography and not necessarily indicative of the actual pronunciation. In an actual sentence/in discourse I would be very surprised to hear you pronounce o + a nasalised glide in the word ząb.

All sources (including ones made for foreigners and ones made with a native audience in mind) I've seen so far give [zɔmb] as the standard pronunciation, and I don't believe I've heard anything else in connected speech.

It immediately reveals that the person comes from a rural/underdeveloped area (not that it's something to be ashamed of but it tells something about the background of that person).

Where in Poland are you from? Based on my experience meeting people from Greater Poland and Lower and Upper Silesia, I think that's a bit of an exaggeration. It's certainly not the most prestigious form, but I've heard -om from uni students living in places like Wrocław, Poznań and Katowice. A lot of them do use -om in free variation with the nasalised glide, though (i.e. they alternate between both pronunciations).