Japanese - Finish the Darn Textbook!

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księżycowy
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Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=11281
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Re: Japanese (365 Challenge) - Finish the Darn Textbook!

Postby księżycowy » Sun Jan 24, 2021 6:16 pm

Goals Through 2021/01/31
  • Minna no Nihongo - Lesson 4
    • Main Textbook Drills
    • Main Textbook Exercises
    • Shokyu de Yomeru
    • Choukai Tasuku
  • Minna no Nihongo - Lesson 5
    • Main Textbook Drills
    • Main Textbook Exercises
    • Bunkei Renshucho
    • Hyoujun Mondaishuu
    • Shokyu de Yomeru
    • Choukai Tasuku
  • Pimsleur I
    • Unit 1
    • Unit 2
    • Unit 3
    • Unit 4
  • Programmed Intro to Literary Japanese - O'Neill
    • Section II - Pronouns pgs. 6-16
1 x
みんなの日本語初級 第2版 (3A) : 5 / 50
シャドウイング日本語を話そう!(Kurosio) : 4 / 42
シャドウイングで日本語発音レッスン (3A) : 1 / 20
Pimsleur Japanese I : 8 / 30

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księżycowy
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Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=11281
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Re: Japanese (365 Challenge) - Finish the Darn Textbook!

Postby księżycowy » Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:05 pm

After having done 2 pages of Part II - Pronouns, I find myself curious about the relationship between LSJ (Literary-Style Japanese) pronouns and LSJ/MJ (Modern Japanese) demonstratives.

So far O'Neill has introduced a, wa, and ta.

The first person singular pronoun: a, wa
The question form: ta (MJ: da)

The three pronouns are perfectly fine as is, but the interesting thing is they can add -re and maintain the same meaning. Thus becoming are, ware, and tare (MJ dare). This definately made me think of MJ kore, sore, and are (which I assume uses that same -re suffix).

The lesson was starting to go over the demonstrative pronouns, but I didn't get that far in on that subject.

I'm guessing at some point a was dropped as a (first person) pronoun, and wa took over. I'm also assuming that wa-re changed to wa-tashi at some point too.

Oh, and LSJ expresses possession (with personal pronouns) differently that MJ:
LSJ - waga ko
MJ - watashi no ko
"My child" (I'm not sure if MJ would use ko like that, but it's close enough :P )
3 x
みんなの日本語初級 第2版 (3A) : 5 / 50
シャドウイング日本語を話そう!(Kurosio) : 4 / 42
シャドウイングで日本語発音レッスン (3A) : 1 / 20
Pimsleur Japanese I : 8 / 30

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księżycowy
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Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=11281
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Re: Japanese (365 Challenge) - Finish the Darn Textbook!

Postby księżycowy » Mon Feb 01, 2021 10:13 am

Update time!

księżycowy wrote:Goals Through 2021/01/31
  • Minna no Nihongo - Lesson 4
    • Main Textbook Drills*
    • Main Textbook Exercises
    • Shokyu de Yomeru
    • Choukai Tasuku
  • Minna no Nihongo - Lesson 5
    • Main Textbook Drills
    • Main Textbook Exercises
    • Bunkei Renshucho
    • Hyoujun Mondaishuu
    • Shokyu de Yomeru
    • Choukai Tasuku
  • Pimsleur I
    • Unit 1
    • Unit 2
    • Unit 3
    • Unit 4
  • Programmed Intro to Literary Japanese - O'Neill
    • Section II - Pronouns pgs. 6-16**


*I have to still go through the C-drills, but otherwise I'm considering it complete.

**I've made it up to page 14.
0 x
みんなの日本語初級 第2版 (3A) : 5 / 50
シャドウイング日本語を話そう!(Kurosio) : 4 / 42
シャドウイングで日本語発音レッスン (3A) : 1 / 20
Pimsleur Japanese I : 8 / 30

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księżycowy
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Re: Japanese (365 Challenge) - Finish the Darn Textbook!

Postby księżycowy » Mon Feb 01, 2021 10:39 am

Goals Through 2021/02/07
  • Minna no Nihongo - Lesson 5
    • Main Textbook Drills
    • Main Textbook Exercises
    • Main Textbook Dialogue
    • Bunkei Renshucho
    • Hyoujun Mondaishuu
    • Shokyu de Yomeru
    • Choukai Tasuku
  • Minna no Nihongo - Lesson 6
    • Main Textbook Drills
    • Main Textbook Exercises
    • Main Textbook Dialogue
    • Bunkei Renshucho
    • Hyoujun Mondaishuu
    • Shokyu de Yomeru
    • Choukai Tasuku
  • Shadowing: Let's Speak Japanese! - Unit 1
    • Section 1
    • Section 2
    • Section 3
    • Section 4
  • Japanese Pronunciation Practice Through Shadowing
    • Lesson 1
    • Lesson 2
  • Pimsleur I
    • Unit 4
    • Unit 5
    • Unit 6
    • Unit 7
    • Unit 8
  • Programmed Intro to Literary Japanese - O'Neill
    • Section II - Pronouns pgs. 15-16
    • Section III - Verb Forms pgs. 17-20

As can be seen, I'm going to try to kick this into high gear this week. There's a bit of a reason for this. This past week I had an interview to become an ALT with one of the dispatch companies in Japan, and was told at the end of the interview that I had successfully passed the interview and would be moving on to submitting paperwork. This is an exciting development, though I am trying to proceed with some caution. It's not written in stone by any measure, but it is looking like a good foot in the door. As such I would like to complete as much of the MnN course before potentially going over sometime in late March/early April. So, it's time to cram! (Within reason!) I'm sure that it was noted that I've also added Pimsleur to my routine now.

I also want to (slowly) move through the two Shadowing books I have; the beginning-intermediate "textbook", and the pronunciation textbook. My main focus will remain MnN, but I want to start adding in some of these other resources.

I also want to start watching anime more often, as the exposure is great. I hope to eventually move into other media, such as live-action shows/movies, but anime is the easiest to navigate for the moment (English websites, subs, etc.) I'll also continue to watch YouTube views as well (probably mostly from the A.I. Channel/A.I. Gaming, but possibly others as well).

Oh, and I thought that I said this before, but so that it's clear I'm moving my discussions over here for now. As I've started using a spreadsheet I'm less concerned about my progress getting lost in discussions here.
2 x
みんなの日本語初級 第2版 (3A) : 5 / 50
シャドウイング日本語を話そう!(Kurosio) : 4 / 42
シャドウイングで日本語発音レッスン (3A) : 1 / 20
Pimsleur Japanese I : 8 / 30

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księżycowy
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Posts: 241
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2017 3:26 pm
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Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=11281
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Re: Japanese (365 Challenge) - Finish the Darn Textbook!

Postby księżycowy » Tue Feb 09, 2021 10:34 am

A short update, this time, as I was thrown a curveball last week.

I worked on Lesson 5 this past week, and was nearing the end of the lesson (as far as the main textbook was concerned, I still have the workbooks to do), but then I was scheduled to have my COVID vaccine this weekend (on Friday), and it was a fun few days of low energy. So progress stopped. I was hoping to at least start some of Lesson 6 during the weekend, but it never materialized.

At any rate, I'm back on the horse! I'll review the drills (B and C) from lesson 5, and move on to the workbooks and (hopefully!) Lesson 6 this week.

Also, I'm still moving forward with my hiring process for that Japanese company, so we'll see how that goes. Next week (which I have off from my current job) I'll have to rearrange my sleeping schedule, as I have to attend a three-day 8 hour (a day) orientation. The clincher is, it's Japanese time, so I'll be staying up late. I'll attempt to keep up with some sort of language learning then, but if it's a lost week, it's a lost week. Priorities!
3 x
みんなの日本語初級 第2版 (3A) : 5 / 50
シャドウイング日本語を話そう!(Kurosio) : 4 / 42
シャドウイングで日本語発音レッスン (3A) : 1 / 20
Pimsleur Japanese I : 8 / 30

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księżycowy
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Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=11281
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Re: Japanese - Finish the Darn Textbook!

Postby księżycowy » Mon Mar 01, 2021 11:52 pm

It has been far too long since my last update!

Let's get back on the small update once a day routine, as that was working quite well before!

I've been working on finishing up Lesson 5. So far I mostly have the workbooks and exercises in the main textbook to do. In the coming days I hope to review the drills and do the dialogue as well (I always forget about the dialogue, for some odd reason).

Today I mostly working on a few exercises from one or two of the workbooks. I still have plenty left.

Hoping to have more to write tomorrow! :)
0 x
みんなの日本語初級 第2版 (3A) : 5 / 50
シャドウイング日本語を話そう!(Kurosio) : 4 / 42
シャドウイングで日本語発音レッスン (3A) : 1 / 20
Pimsleur Japanese I : 8 / 30

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księżycowy
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Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=11281
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Re: Japanese - Finish the Darn Textbook!

Postby księżycowy » Tue Mar 02, 2021 10:40 pm

March 2, 2021
~30 minutes - Pimsleur Lesson 5
~20 minutes - exercises from the workbooks (Bunkei Renshucho & Hyoujun Mondaishuu) Lesson 5

Oh, and I probably should note, I'm dropping Literary-Style Japanese (a.k.a. Classical Japanese) for the time being. This isn't so much a "さよなら" as a "じゃあ、また。"
0 x
みんなの日本語初級 第2版 (3A) : 5 / 50
シャドウイング日本語を話そう!(Kurosio) : 4 / 42
シャドウイングで日本語発音レッスン (3A) : 1 / 20
Pimsleur Japanese I : 8 / 30

vonPeterhof
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Re: Japanese (365 Challenge) - Finish the Darn Textbook!

Postby vonPeterhof » Wed Mar 03, 2021 6:59 am

księżycowy wrote:I'm also assuming that wa-re changed to wa-tashi at some point too.

Oh, and LSJ expresses possession (with personal pronouns) differently that MJ:
LSJ - waga ko
MJ - watashi no ko
"My child" (I'm not sure if MJ would use ko like that, but it's close enough :P )

Sorry for responding to an older post, but this just sent me on a bit of a tangent so I feel the need to respond. First of all, わたし is generally agreed to be a clipping of the now more formal わたくし. The latter's etymology is apparently debated, with a connection to the first person pronoun being just one of the theories (it's highly tempting to assume that the たくし part is related to the verb 託す, "to entrust", but a) it's apparently a verb derived from the on'yomi, and those were far less common in older Literary Japanese, and b) I couldn't find it or any of its possible related forms in weblio's Classical Japanese dictionary).

The Wiktionary entry mentions the lack of attestation of わたくし as a first-person pronoun until the 13th century as a possible argument against this etymology, but personally I don't find it that strong an objection. After all, Japanese has a fine tradition of first-person pronouns doubling as more abstract and/or reflexive ones (see the modern sense of 我が子, as well as the delightful false friend マイカー). Plus, both わたくし in the sense of "private matter" and わが in the sense of "one's own" are apparently attested in the Tale of Genji from the 11th century.

Incidentally I always assumed that おれ was a modern descendant of われ, but turns out that it was originally more commonly used as a second person pronoun, making it far more likely that it's derived from おのれ (they were even written with the same kanji historically).
3 x

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księżycowy
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Re: Japanese (365 Challenge) - Finish the Darn Textbook!

Postby księżycowy » Wed Mar 03, 2021 10:03 am

vonPeterhof wrote:Sorry for responding to an older post, but this just sent me on a bit of a tangent so I feel the need to respond.
No worries at all. I apreciate the conversation.

First of all, わたし is generally agreed to be a clipping of the now more formal わたくし. [...] both わたくし in the sense of "private matter" and わが in the sense of "one's own" are apparently attested in the Tale of Genji from the 11th century.

I knew that watashi comes from watakushi, I can' t remember if I did some research before or after I posted here. I purposefully said "at some point" so as not to lead to the thought that it went directly from wa to watashi (or that was my intention, at least). I can't say I dug all that deeply into the entries in wiktionary (which is what I primarily looked at), but it is interesting to note that the Tale of Genji contains usages of both watakushi and waga. Unfortunately at my current level of Japanese (both Modern and Literary for that matter), I can't comment further.

I will say that the way the pronouns are formed (like, the terms they come from and the way they are generally understood in Japanese) is quite interesting to me at the moment.
0 x
みんなの日本語初級 第2版 (3A) : 5 / 50
シャドウイング日本語を話そう!(Kurosio) : 4 / 42
シャドウイングで日本語発音レッスン (3A) : 1 / 20
Pimsleur Japanese I : 8 / 30

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księżycowy
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Posts: 241
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2017 3:26 pm
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Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=11281
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Re: Japanese - Finish the Darn Textbook!

Postby księżycowy » Wed Mar 03, 2021 8:57 pm

March 3
~20 minutes of Pimsleur - Unit 6

It's my lazy day, so I'll probably end it there for today. :P
1 x
みんなの日本語初級 第2版 (3A) : 5 / 50
シャドウイング日本語を話そう!(Kurosio) : 4 / 42
シャドウイングで日本語発音レッスン (3A) : 1 / 20
Pimsleur Japanese I : 8 / 30


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