Sunshine Sparkling In The Sky (A Summer of Language Variety)

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eido
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Re: No Expectations, No Problem

Postby eido » Sun Jan 10, 2021 1:48 am

Today I:
  • went through a couple beginner's stories on TTMIK
  • went through a TTMIK story time
  • had a Korean trial lesson on italki
This past week I:
  • did pretty much the same thing, barring the lesson, for Korean--except I sang aloud with BTS
  • explored a couple Spanish audiobooks
I really like the beginner's stories. They're nice and short, and the accompanying videos are packed with so much informative content that you may not get elsewhere.

A step up from the beginner's set is the story time, which is still guided, but has less hand-holding.

I had a good trial lesson with a young Korean teacher who seems very strict and ambitious. I hope if I work with him for a while we don't burn the Korean-learning s(h)tick from both ends :lol: He marked me as lower intermediate, so I think I'm good at evaluating myself. Maybe.

I found a BTS song that seemed interesting from a pronunciation perspective... I'm not sure why. Maybe the complexity of the lyrics? It's called "2nd Grade" and is decently upbeat, with each member chiming in with their parts irregularly. It's a difficult song to follow along with, but I'm up for the challenge ;) This week I listened to it two or three times and tried to keep up with it, but failed for the most part. It will not defeat me!

As for Spanish, I have at least 10 audiobooks just sitting around waiting to be listened to, but getting in the groove for an information wave instead of a musical one (I usually listen to music in my free time, and usually the same kinds... you know the genre) will take some coaxing. It's time I engaged in some more self-improvement and watering the "Spanish garden", as it were, so here we go.
Bunnychu wrote:These resources are the ones I started with as well and in my opinion they're really good in laying the foundation.
...
I agree with this. I also don't understand why people recommend skipping TTMIK; in my opinion, it's a great resource to start with and continue with Iyagi, Korean Conversations, Story Time etc. The mistake that I see people do, is to just listen to the podcast without using the learned grammar point in a sentence and then complain that they didn't learn anything through TTMIK because it was in English :D

Korean is one of the lesser-learned languages, but it still has some pretty great beginner materials.
The intermediate resources are really good imo. I'm just getting through them and they're really helpful. I'm glad to have found someone who agrees! 8-)
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Re: No Expectations, No Problem

Postby eido » Mon Jan 18, 2021 1:16 am

This past week I didn't do much, but I have had languages on my mind the entire time.

I have tried to keep my mental health, family and school life a priority. These things, if left unchecked, and manage to overflow or tip over, won't allow me to function normally or sometimes at all. I think @Tristano summed it up well in his "what did you learn" post for 2020.
1) Identify your goals.
2) Identify key points and what delivers the biggest result with the minimum effort.
3) Do that first. Know yourself and your limits. Do it as often as it is possible for you.
4) You gained a new skill, congratulations! Now you have to maintain it.
5) To master it, rinse and repeat over your lifetime.

Only, for me, #3 is the hard one (at the moment). I haven't managed to do something every day in 2021 or the past month. But I'm trying to work my way up to a busy but manageable schedule that I'm proud of.

For instance, I'm taking a heavier load of classes than I've ever taken before. There's a lot of homework, just glancing at the course outlines. I'm not one for planners. I tend to remember everything I need to do in my head or by quickly scanning the course calendar.

I don't want to end up in the position where I can't do my coursework and can't spend at least a little time on my hobbies. Just a little.

It's a work-in-progress.

Anyway, this week I had a lesson in Korean. Today normally would have been the day I'd have had a conversation lesson in Spanish, but I decided to take the day off because I didn't know how stressful the Korean lesson'd be. It in actuality wasn't all that bad, but we'll get into that. Tomorrow is the day I'll have my Spanish lesson, and it's quite timely, too, since I'm taking some Spanish courses this semester and I'd like to improve my abilities by a wide margin.

Now back to Korean for a moment. The teacher and I were practicing "speaking," and even though he was quite patient, we both could tell my speaking skills lagged tremendously behind my ability in receptive skills. We were going over a short section of a drama script and answering questions related to some grammar found in the script. I already knew the grammar and could translate it idiomatically pretty well, but I couldn't speak it on command. When I revealed that I had tried translating the script on my own, he asked me to try and I did it pretty decently. It was then he realized I had quite good reading ability but poor speaking skills. It was funny to see the look of surprise on his face.

So next week (and I think from now on) we're going to work on writing and various forms of output.

I'm still practicing with k-pop songs, this time SHINee added to the mix. Japanese singles from both groups, too. Music is the way I keep in touch with my languages every day even when I'm too busy to study concertedly.

Alright, as for Spanish. In my classes we have to do a lot of speaking, and it's the higher-level kind. I'm pretty good at speaking Spanish when I've had a bit of time to prepare, and that time could range from having a week to go over some material related to the topic of the conversation, a longer period of information gathering where more and different types of information is collected, or a few moments to pick up my thoughts where real-time editing of speech can happen. My skills are nowhere near my English speaking skills (and really, could you expect them to be?), but I'd love to have them at a higher, more active and available level.

I also have to write emails in Spanish to my professor, using Spanish-language and/or Hispanic cultural conventions. I looked some up today, and I followed them to the letter (pun intended), but my teacher responded in a somewhat different fashion than I expected, so I'll have to ask my tutor about why she wrote her email in that style. Or just figure it out on my own... that's what I usually do anyways. :P

In my lessons with my Spanish tutor going forward, I want to focus more on formal communication since at some point I'd love to have a job translating or some position where I interface with the Hispanic community. As a teacher of a language, you definitely do some of that, through multiple channels, but if my job was centered around that, it'd be living the dream. Overall, I really just want to develop all my skills in Spanish further.

If I can manage to keep my schedule going, who knows where I'll be in a year? Rome wasn't built in a day, but boy was it glorious when it was done.
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Re: No Expectations, No Problem

Postby Raconteur » Mon Jan 18, 2021 1:32 am

eido wrote:I have always been a fan of the quote: “It does not matter how slowly you go so long as you do not stop” but I haven’t been living that quote. It jives more with my personal style than rapid-fire information absorption, as I enjoy taking things in in a detailed, measured manner and with real-world examples. I’m a tortoise, not a hare.
Similar to you (I think) I have made a lot of attempts over the years that were not very successful. Now my approach is simple: just keep going. My goal for this year is to stay consistent, doing at least 30 minutes of language learning every day (whatever language and whatever method I please). This may not be the best, or the fastest, or the most comprehensive way to learn... but one needs to learn how to walk before practicing advanced sprinting techniques. What I need to "learn" – more than anything else – is how to make language learning a daily habit. With that goal in mind, I also joined the 2021 edition of the 365 Challenge here on the forum. Maybe a good idea for you as well?

Good luck with your studies, I'll be following your progress here on the log.
-Rac
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2021 365 Challenge: 85 / 365 (2 DAYS MISSED)

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eido
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Re: No Expectations, No Problem

Postby eido » Tue Jan 19, 2021 12:04 am

Raconteur wrote:This may not be the best, or the fastest, or the most comprehensive way to learn... but one needs to learn how to walk before practicing advanced sprinting techniques. What I need to "learn" – more than anything else – is how to make language learning a daily habit. With that goal in mind, I also joined the 2021 edition of the 365 Challenge here on the forum. Maybe a good idea for you as well?

When I first joined the forum, I kept up a pretty good daily habit of watching my favorite cartoon series at the time in Spanish dub because I had more time on my hands than I do now. I think it was that daily habit and the amount I watched that contributed to the initial jump in my listening skills. I think your idea is a good one, it's just a hard one to keep up with the older and busier I get.

I'll try to do 30 minutes from now on each day, in much the same way you prescribe, but I won't beat myself up if I miss a day. It's basically what I'm doing now. Language learning is always within reach, always in my palm, always on my mind (sings Willie Nelson)... but the lack of consistency can really have an effect on your studies if you're not careful.

Thanks for visiting the log! Hope you find my journey entertaining, useful, or... amusing. I follow your log and I've found it insightful.
--
Today I had my Spanish lesson, and my tutor is the tough sort. He even hinted at that today by saying it's one of his greatest joys to challenge students. And I'm not here to say that's wrong... seeing a student meet a challenge or even struggle and get halfway there is incredible. I just think I tire him, haha. I try to ask for more in-depth work on my skills, and he merely replies that language is a life-long battle. We've had this discussion many times, and I think he thinks I don't get it (can't be sure), but I do get it, and I'm more accepting of it now than I was a year or even two ago when I first met the guy.

We have fun, though. He said I'd much improved since we initially began to work together. I suppose I have something to be proud of despite being a terribly picky gal. :roll:
--
I spent over an hour working on my Korean homework for my Korean lesson this upcoming week. I felt like a lot of the sentences could be translated in multiple ways, so I tried to find the most succinct one as well as the one that could be conveyed by the grammar point we had covered last week. Sometimes I couldn't figure out how the English matched up with the Korean grammar, so I just went with what I knew personally... that'll probably confuse the teacher. I wasn't trying to impress, rather trying to demonstrate more knowledge than the teacher may have seen that I have that first go-around. That, and I wasn't sure what to write.
--
In the realm of getting a concrete routine set into place, I've been collecting resources for gaining more knowledge on a variety of topics. Physics, math, personal growth, parenting, etc.--you name it. Most of these things I end up finding in English, but I've found a few in Spanish. A lot of the school subjects are still out of my reach in regard to Korean. Before I just wanted to absorb vast amounts of content, but as I age, I realize I have to specialize and start to distill meaning out of what I find important. I'm still young, yes, but the urge to do more and be more is there--however, in a small scope. As in, if I could be the everywoman that fixed cars and toilets, parented well, and used common sense properly, I'd consider myself successful.

And I think I could learn a lot of this through other languages. That would satisfy the intellectual component, too.

Thanks for coming to yet another TED Talk. (lmao) :lol: Hopefully you got something out of that. If not, sorry :?
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Re: No Expectations, No Problem

Postby eido » Thu Jan 28, 2021 3:53 am

More updates to come on this as I progress with this project, but a quick recap of what I've been doing the past week and a half:

- I took to listening to podcasts in various languages, the three main ones being Korean, Icelandic, and Japanese.
  • The major breakthrough with this was I was able to listen pretty well to all three of these languages. Given, these podcasts were all of different levels, but perfecting my ability will come with time.
    1. I've been following @golyplot's log with a decent amount of regularity, so I became familiar with Noriko's podcast through there. I hadn't checked it out until two days ago however, and when I did, I was surprised to find I could understand 90% of the random samplings I took from the library. How do I know I understood? I used DeepL to translate the transcripts after listening to the clips. Some stuff I got wrong or mixed up because I was in a hurry, but for the most part, quite good comprehension.
    2. I also made use of LingQ's story feature and listened to the robot voice reading aloud the various stories, and with the added comprehension questions at the end of each mini unit, I'd say my comprehension jumped to 95%.
    3. In addition, I googled some more advanced podcasts and public domain readings, and I found the JUNK podcast, an apparently really popular podcast in Japan... made for natives, by natives. I'll never know how much I'm truly understanding unless I have a way to check and prove it to you all, but I'd say even with the upped difficulty, I understand it fairly well. I just don't have an outlet for the input.
  • I listened to a bunch of iyagis as a precursor to the Japanese experiment, and since each iyagi comes with a transcript that's easily Ctrl C/Ctrl V'd (I'm a Windows user, don't attack me! :P) it's easy to apply the same guess-and-check method I used with the Japanese casts. I was understanding fairly well here too, and even saw a jump in my comprehension of songs.
    1. I've started watching the k-drama Hwarang and am surprised by how much I like it. It has a lot of colloquial language for a period series, but I'm catching up. The mixture of addressing the Queen of Silla with the highest speech form and the Cheonin bringing their speech to the lowest level among themselves is a marvel to behold. I can't speak to its accuracy, but I've heard actual Korean does have this linguistic diversity, so it makes me excited.
  • I also began listening to Icelandic podcasts and trying to read Icelandic children's news. I broke. :cry:
Every little bit I understand is a victory!
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Re: No Expectations, No Problem

Postby eido » Sun Feb 07, 2021 3:20 am

Now for an update as to this week and a half:
- I turned my attention to European languages, such as Slovenian, Norwegian, and Polish. I didn't lose contact with Korean, but I didn't focus on it as much as the said European mix. As usual, I have done projects for my Spanish classes in university, so I've kept up with that language also.
  • After reading @oho and @Daniele's logs, I decided to get back into Slovenian. It's a really cool-sounding language that I fell in love with almost instantly after hearing it. I have a bit of a vested interest in learning it now, though I have no particular reason to like the two aforementioned loggers might. I just like it.
    1. I ordered a grammar and I will be ordering Colloquial Slovene, both because they received glowing recommendations on this forum. I also have previous resources I've mentioned in other threads (logs) that I'll be using.
    2. Due to my renewed interest in Slovenian, I also dove a bit back into Faroese and Maltese. And I've decided more output is what's needed. You'll see why after I describe my next experiences.
  • I bought a subscription to Polski Daily Podcasts with Paulina, as they come with full transcripts and analysis for quite cheap. I have been testing my comprehension over the past couple days using her material. I use what ability I've gained through listening to my parents and through other means, using the process described above in proceeding posts. So far I'd say I understand 75%-80% of the talk; most last about 6-7 minutes. I get a big discount from cognates, but as we can clearly see, Polish isn't an interlanguage nor a conlang with ambitions of being easily understood, so I need to know more than just related words.
    I was in for a big surprise. I understood much of what I was hearing! Shocking, as my dad would say. I will keep testing and re-verifying my abilities as I am able.
  • The biggest win this week was me with a podcast recommended by @Elsa Maria. "Lær norsk nå" is a great podcast; the content is accessible for my level (which ended up being much higher than I imagined) and interesting, as well. I understood the entire first episode without any aide, and I did it in the manner as described... with checking a transcript in Google Translate.
    I read the target language transcript, check to understand, then match my understanding with the English translation given by the machine. If the first ep was B1, that's where I'm at with Norwegian.
  • Therefore, since I'm understanding so much at these levels, my conclusion is that I need a challenge. The books on the site @tungemål recommended seem promising and after I get my fill of "Real Talks with Poles" and "Lær norsk", maybe I could move on to something more with my appetite. I have Icelandic and Faroese novels waiting for me to chomp into.
  • Writing would also be good. I understand a lot, so all that's needed is to translate that into my own written word.
Tune in next week for more updates. Feel free to comment your thoughts, feelings, insights, etc. I'm excited to dive into real literature.
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Re: No Expectations, No Problem

Postby Elsa Maria » Sun Feb 07, 2021 4:50 pm

I'm so glad that you liked Lær Norsk Nå! I'm definitely just taking the leisurely approach with it and seeing how much I can understand through my Danish. Quite a lot, actually. It's a winner of a podcast - interesting topics AND free transcripts!

I've starting collecting Faroese resources for the future, and hope you will detail your adventures with Faroese. Do you have an opinion on whether it would be better to learn Icelandic-then-Faroese or Faroese-then-Icelandic?

Oh, and you might like this book I just read. I should give it a detailed review on my log at some point. I read it on my kindle, and made a lot of enthusiastic highlights.

The Languages of Scandinavia: Seven Sisters of the North by Ruth H. Sanders
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/342 ... candinavia
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Re: No Expectations, No Problem

Postby eido » Wed Feb 10, 2021 1:34 am

Elsa Maria wrote:I've starting collecting Faroese resources for the future, and hope you will detail your adventures with Faroese. Do you have an opinion on whether it would be better to learn Icelandic-then-Faroese or Faroese-then-Icelandic?

Oh, and you might like this book I just read. I should give it a detailed review on my log at some point. I read it on my kindle, and made a lot of enthusiastic highlights.

Oh, wonderful! Faroese is a cute little language. I'm glad you started to go resource-gathering. In my limited experience (aka, take my words with a grain of salt), it's better to learn Icelandic first. Granted, I did learn a lot of my Icelandic before I knew about Faroese, but looking back on it now I'd say fate made the cards fall elegantly when I discovered my first Nordic language. I say this because Icelandic's spelling is mostly phonetic, the pronunciation isn't as scary as most people think (which makes listening to it easier and/or more pleasant, and should you need to speak it, it won't be as difficult as the Danish you've got and how they're internationally known as potato gnashers [poor Danes; people are mean]). Last I checked, Iceland was infamously known as the country in the world that publishes the most books per capita, so you shouldn't run into any trouble finding anything to read.

Faroese, on the other hand, is like a mix of Danish, Norwegian, and Icelandic (no offense meant) and its spelling system is often compared to English in rank for "worst" in the "phonetic" label. The pronunciation can also be hard to grasp, and I'm still working on that. It's definitely much harder than Icelandic in that regard; however with regard to grammar it's a bit more simplified, and if you can get through Icelandic, you can get through Faroese, since the latter repeats common patterns seen in the former. It ain't too bad.

That book looks pretty good! I'll have to check it out :)
--
Today my Slovenian grammar came in, so I read some pages from that and got a bit overwhelmed by the detail (so much to remember!). But I made it through 3 mini units.

I also studied on 50Languages Slovenian the same 3 units I'd gone over before, and I remembered a lot of it since I'd repeated it quite a bit previously. But I'll keep repeating it until I know it well.

I also studied on PolishPod101. Two units.

I had fun tonight overall, so I'll call this 45-minute long study session successful :geek:
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Re: No Expectations, No Problem

Postby eido » Sun Feb 14, 2021 2:25 am

Today I studied three languages and wrote in one.

  • Mandarin Chinese
      I studied for ten minutes on Mandarin Corner some phrases - "sentence starters" - and I plan to study more in the upcoming days. I'm applying to Mandarin the same method I'm applying to Slovenian, that being repeat until I remember or understand.
  • Polish
      I studied nine units on PolishPod101 this week. I ended on "Do You Want Polish Zloty or Euro?" and learned a lot about numbers. They gave me trouble, but I realized there's a pattern and Polish numbers probably aren't as hard as people say they are.
  • Slovenian
      I studied the same three units on 50Languages. This time I remembered the phrases much better. I was so happy. I also noticed that the word for "big" in Slovenian and Polish is similar: "velik" in Slovenian and "wielki" in Polish. A little win, but important!
  • Spanish
      I spoke to a guy from South America intermittently through chat. We discussed language learning. He was afraid of Russian!
The other languages I thought of rounding up (Maltese, Faroese, Norwegian, Icelandic, among others) have been joined by a few others that have been circulating in the mind for the past month getting ready to be launched into full study mode as the months progress. Among these are Burmese, Hindi, and Malagasy. About two weeks ago I started learning the Hindi "semi-alphabet" with a sharp focus on its logic. I've learned about half of it.

I'm proud to say this log is a real tour of languages. It doesn't stick to one, but it doesn't claim to be a grand Indiana Jones, either. Rather, it's just that guy you know from work that likes to try everything on the menu each time a new local eatery opens up. I like being an explorer, but I'm really not as adventurous as I seem.

Ooh, and we can't forget Indonesian. What about Manx? Cherokee?

:lol:
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Re: No Expectations, No Problem

Postby eido » Sun Feb 28, 2021 7:31 pm

Welcome back to another edition of "What's Going On?" with eido.

I'm here to report that this past month and a half has been a transition period in my life, and the next few months are likely to continue that trend.

What has this meant for my language learning?

Well, I haven't studied much, though like I wrote in a previous post here on the log, languages have been on the mind the entire time, sometimes requisitely.

Much of this time has been spent re-organizing resources and getting ready to perform the act of studying without actually doing it.

I try not to write posts here unless I have some news bit I want to convey. I suppose people take what they do out of posts I make, so please continue to do so. I'm not one to police that, as it'd be futile.

But... I would like to report possible changes in language roster, reflect on giving up, and blab about music.
1. I was thinking the other day that maybe my dad was right all those times he recommended German and French to me. When I was thinking about this, there was no real reason that jumped out at me for switching to more "conventional" languages. A roster of Spanish, German, French, Korean, and Polish seems simple enough to keep up with if a little heavy.

Since I've focused on Spanish for almost 10 years now and have gotten to a decent enough level (B2 on the cusp of C1, or a very low C1 -- while being relatively young), I can start adding other languages into the mix and actively practicing them. "Actively" is the key, since I apparently stopped doing that due to a dip in confidence after I embarked on my Korean journey. I don't think Korean intimidated me. I just think I got into a prolonged depressive funk.

Therefore, I think that yes, studying all those languages I bought books and courses for would serve an excellent use of my time, but perhaps 10 to 15 years down the road when I've gotten to a comfortable C1 in all the languages listed. I have mentioned many times before here on LLORG that I would like bilingual children, and I would like them to be bilingual in their heritage language. I'm not fluent (i.e. a high level, say C2) in it yet. So hopefully this upcoming spring/summer I'll start taking intensive lessons so I can master it before I start making plans for the arrival of any children.
2. This past month, due to university courses, I've felt a lot like throwing in the towel and saying, "I'm done with this." The courses are challenging and the professor a hard grader. I'm used to colloquial Spanish and I do well there, conversing easily if a little run by nerves. But most of this is adrenaline since I'm so excited to speak Spanish and love it dearly. I however do think I'll have to re-think a lot of things.

I've had no time to study outside languages since I'm so worried about doing right in Spanish. I could study Korean, but I get demotivated easily. I might have to drop Korean altogether, forever. Or just for a very long time. It would be satisfying to sell all those books and get rid of them. The books are pretty, though.

I suppose what my dad's been trying to say to me is it's a matter of quality, not quantity, even if I get curious. I thought so, too. But I never realized how much a concept like this mattered, or what it meant.

Which leads us to the next point...
3. I previously mentioned cutting k-pop out of my life. I don't have beef against the groups. And, you might wonder, why do I have to say that? Because k-pop stans defend their boys and girls as if every interaction with another person were a life-and-death battle. Their groups have to be at the top, or else. It sort of drives me nuts.

I don't want to be that person who says, "I'm just in it for the music" because a lot of k-pop sounds the same. So manufactured. Not very original. I'm not looking for experimental up the you-know-what, but 80% of groups don't match what I'm looking for. There's 15% that're pretty decent, but only in certain lights. And then there's 5% that truly shine, like BTS and SHINee (no pun intended... actually maybe yes). But even they get boring, and their fanbases are eternally "toxic," as the teenagers say. Immature.

So if I continue studying Korean, I'll have to dig deep in the archives.

I'll never stop being a fan of these two groups, though. They've made me smile so many times.

Throughout my journey through their discographies, my dad and I managed to agree on two songs, one from each, that were truly performed well.

1. Blood, Sweat, and Tears - BTS (not about giving your effort, but giving your soul)
2. Downtown Baby - SHINee (my dad thought it was in the vein of Michael Jackson, and SHINee are Michael Jackson fanboys)
And just some additional parting gifts for anyone looking to get into the two groups from a Pentatonix-like group from Korea:
1. Evolution of BTS
2. Evolution of SHINee

I don't know how often I'll post here starting from now. But I hope to always keep studying.
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