Kelvin's RU, JP, ESP log <- In this order

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smallwhite
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Re: Kelvin's RU, JP, ESP log <- In this order

Postby smallwhite » Sun Aug 22, 2021 10:02 am

> This time I'm adding all the new words / expressions into Anki

Do you not have the audio to listen to?
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Just_a_visitor
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Re: Kelvin's RU, JP, ESP log <- In this order

Postby Just_a_visitor » Sun Aug 22, 2021 2:19 pm

kelvin921019 wrote:As time goes time, I have a much stronger urge to "solidify" my existing languages instead of plunge into the next one once I have finished my hardcore Russian studies.
Russian
... With all the benefit from NCPR the first 3 weeks isn't much problematic and cause me almost no problem exact the following sentences:
- The accusative used alone
"Таня, тебя к телефону, слышишь" (Tanya, you are wanted on the phone, do you listen?)
"Купе, нижнюю полку, если можно" (coupé, lower bunk, if possible)
I don't see any explanation on the internet but I presume it's that there is a "хочу / хотят" omitted so that it implies accusative here. Am I right here?

"может быть, вам до москвы?" (Perhaps, you [go to] Moscow?)
I am guessing the dative case is something like "for you". So I am understanding it's something like "perhaps, for you, to-go-to Moscow"
.

I'd rather say:
"Таня, тебя к телефону, слышишь" = тебя (зовут) к телефону, тебя (просят) к телефону
"Купе, нижнюю полку, если можно" = (дайте) купе, нижнюю полку (имеются в виду билеты)

BTW, here BOTH нижнюю полку AND купе are in accusative; the difference is, that купе, like some other foreign words (метро, пальто, кофе, кафе, бистро...) does not change.

"может быть, вам до москвы?" = ...вам (нужны билеты)
Hope it's not too late :)
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Re: Kelvin's RU, JP, ESP log <- In this order

Postby luke » Sun Aug 22, 2021 4:15 pm

smallwhite wrote:> This time I'm adding all the new words / expressions into Anki

Do you not have the audio to listen to?

Yeah, Assimil without the audio for the course just makes it hard.

And with the audio, there should be very little that needs to go in Anki. (you may listen to lessons dozens of times, but listening/listen-reading/shadowing helps in more ways than just learning vocab).
Last edited by luke on Sun Aug 22, 2021 10:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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kelvin921019
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Re: Kelvin's RU, JP, ESP log <- In this order

Postby kelvin921019 » Sun Aug 22, 2021 5:46 pm

smallwhite wrote:> This time I'm adding all the new words / expressions into Anki

Do you not have the audio to listen to?


Yes, I made a deck containing full sentences and reverse translation the first time I did Assimil Spanish. I ended both decks 1 month after I finished the book since I moved on to native resources. I have moved past the Assimil audio stage and now focusing on the rapid speed native contents.

However, (On hindsight I shouldn't) I didn't keep a vocabulary / expression deck at first because I believed that I could absorb all the useful words through massive input but turn out it's not true. Later after DELE when I decided to broaden my vocabulary I realized that I have forgotten quite a lot of previously memorized words and expressions and it made me struggle a lot in maintaining dialogue since I often need to resort to much longer / less accurate expressions (like instead of "spoon" (cuchara) I need to say "the thing for having soup" (la herramienta para tomar sopa)). At this stage I'm looking for expanding the vocabularies / expressions since most of the time when I don't understand a sentence it's due to a particular expression / idiom or a key verb / noun but not the structure in general.

I now have changed my methodology and kept a unified (English -> Spanish) deck for vocabularies. Audio isn't adding much imo since Spanish pronunciation is quite intuitive.
Last edited by kelvin921019 on Sun Aug 22, 2021 6:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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kelvin921019
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Re: Kelvin's RU, JP, ESP log <- In this order

Postby kelvin921019 » Sun Aug 22, 2021 5:51 pm

Just_a_visitor wrote:
kelvin921019 wrote:As time goes time, I have a much stronger urge to "solidify" my existing languages instead of plunge into the next one once I have finished my hardcore Russian studies.
Russian
... With all the benefit from NCPR the first 3 weeks isn't much problematic and cause me almost no problem exact the following sentences:
- The accusative used alone
"Таня, тебя к телефону, слышишь" (Tanya, you are wanted on the phone, do you listen?)
"Купе, нижнюю полку, если можно" (coupé, lower bunk, if possible)
I don't see any explanation on the internet but I presume it's that there is a "хочу / хотят" omitted so that it implies accusative here. Am I right here?

"может быть, вам до москвы?" (Perhaps, you [go to] Moscow?)
I am guessing the dative case is something like "for you". So I am understanding it's something like "perhaps, for you, to-go-to Moscow"
.

I'd rather say:
"Таня, тебя к телефону, слышишь" = тебя (зовут) к телефону, тебя (просят) к телефону
"Купе, нижнюю полку, если можно" = (дайте) купе, нижнюю полку (имеются в виду билеты)

BTW, here BOTH нижнюю полку AND купе are in accusative; the difference is, that купе, like some other foreign words (метро, пальто, кофе, кафе, бистро...) does not change.

"может быть, вам до москвы?" = ...вам (нужны билеты)
Hope it's not too late :)


This is extremely helpful. Assimil sometimes leaves quite a lot of guessing and googling work to me :lol:
I have bumped into another expression in Assimil (and apparently I'm not the only one puzzled by this)
"на его месте, вы бы ещё не так заплакали", the translation given is "In his place, you would cry much more (still not like that)"
How would you understand "ещё не так"? Is it some kind of fixed expression or there's some kind of logic behind?

Many thanks in advance!
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Just_a_visitor
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Re: Kelvin's RU, JP, ESP log <- In this order

Postby Just_a_visitor » Sun Aug 22, 2021 7:24 pm

Yes, it may be a fixed expression in most of the cases (at least, I can't think of an example where it's not).
It may or may not be followed by a verb/verbal phrase; if not - the verb/action is clear from the previous context.
My feeling is, it's oftener (but not necessarily) used with a conjunction и in the middle: "еще и не так".
Look at the examples, please:
https://www.google.com/search?q=%22%D0% ... 66&bih=568
Similarly, еще и не такой/такая/такое + noun/noun phrase (either explicit or implicit).
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kelvin921019
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Re: Kelvin's RU, JP, ESP log <- In this order

Postby kelvin921019 » Mon Aug 23, 2021 4:51 am

JLPT N2: Pass
I just got my JLPT N2 result here:
Language knowledge: 60/60
Reading: 60/60
Listening: 59/60
Overall: 179/180

Pretty much as expected my listening can't catch up in such short period. Anyway, JLPT isn't a test of my Japanese level in general. For now I could proceed with N1 but I'm a bit scared of the vocab list / grammar drill / past paper cycle. I will probably do it a year later.
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kelvin921019
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Re: Kelvin's RU, JP, ESP log <- In this order

Postby kelvin921019 » Wed Sep 01, 2021 6:28 am

I tried a TEU paper (which is basically the A1 official exam paper for Russian). Since I read on the internet that I can use dictionary (RU to EN) in exam, I did the paper with an online dictionary but I still try my best to guess the meaning as much as possible.

I scored 95% in the grammar part and 90% for reading (I guess I will only get 75% if I can't use an dictionary). I can't find the tape for listening test so I didn't try. I think I can say I have reach more or less an A1 level in terms of grammar and reading. What I plan to do next in this short 1 week break from Assimil is to go through the exam paper again in the weekend and turn all the useful words into Anki cards and do 1 round of reverse translation of sentence patterns which I want to learn.

What surprises me the most is that A1 Russian also covers quite a lot of topics, all 6 cases and perfective / imperfective, a little bit on verb of motion (only ходить ездить). And I need to fill up some of the vocabularies on travel and vacation (which is tested quite heavily on the exam).

Not sure if I can get hold of a set of official paper. I can't find them on Amazon.

I will do a mid-term update / reflection on my Russian learning progress soon. Right now, I'm going through lesson 18 of NPRC (on comparatives).
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kelvin921019
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Re: Kelvin's RU, JP, ESP log <- In this order

Postby kelvin921019 » Fri Sep 03, 2021 6:25 am

Filling the vocabulary void
Instead of going through the A1 paper, I recently found that there's a minimal vocabulary list for TEU (and TRKI exams). I have therefore purchased the list for A1 and A2.

Right now, I am going through the A1 one (today I entered 20 new words in the first 3 pages / 21 pages).

This is the approach I have learnt from my experience in Spanish - I have gone to fast in the grammar and sentence structure in Spanish and often I even cannot say the most basic things (e.g. I brush my teeth). These are not the usual words I will encounter in reading or watching movies but definitely I will use if I am a visitor or with friends.

This is of course one of the down side of Assimil system (which I realize until recently). The book focus on teaching me a lot of sentence patterns / grammatical structures so that I can simply plug the words into these patterns to create my own sentence. The problem is, since it is going in the speed of feeding me all the patterns in 100 lessons, the vocab they offer is very very limited. That's why after I finish Assimil Spanish I could start communicating with the help of the dictionary.

I plan to finish the A1 list before lesson 76 (i.e. the next break)
As to the A2 list, it will start from lesson 77 of the book, up until I finish the Penguin book, by then I should have a rather solid foundation in the language to proceed to B1 material without worrying about not knowing even the most basic words.
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kelvin921019
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Re: Kelvin's RU, JP, ESP log <- In this order

Postby kelvin921019 » Sun Sep 05, 2021 4:23 pm

Mid-term update of Russian
Tomorrow I'll start lesson 50 of Assimil and will take the second break at lesson 77. So far I have learnt enough Russian so that I can read the subtitles of a Russian video and recognise like....10 every minutes.

Honestly, the most daunting thing people said about Russian are its grammar but I don't think so. The general declension 6 cases are pretty easy to master but apparently it will take quite a bit of time to remember all those exceptions. The use of the cases also are quite comprehensible (thanks to my studies in Spanish). Of course, what case follow which verb is also matter of rote memorization. With all those training I am a bit conscientious about what case should be used in the situations I have learnt. Perfective and imperfective would be one of the place where I'll struggle a lot. The concept is quite fussy in some situations and besides my mind isn't quite adapted to the 2-verb system. Whenever I encounter a sentence, it takes time for me to stop and think whether that verb is perfective or imperfective and what does it mean in that sentence. [Actually also declension - it will take a lot of time for my mind to get adapt to, in particular, Genitive and Instrumental case, like I need to associate the sound to their function. Like it took my quite some time to get used to all conjugation in Spanish. In short, it's a matter of time and exposure.]

Apart from that, the sentence structure is somewhat in line with English or Spanish. It means that I don't need to relearn every single sentence pattern like I did in Japanese.

Vocab would be my arch enemy. For the very reason that it's so different from English and Spanish. I need to rewire my brain to perceive connect the dots and to understand Russian. It is particularly difficult to memorize a lot of words in Russian everyday (I think my limit is 19-20 per day if half of them have some sort of connection with English or previous words I have learnt.)

7 months into my learning of Russian and I still just reach A1 level (in terms of vocabulary and grammar). Unlike Spanish and Japanese, I could only start italki lesson after I start B1 materials since there is no cheating (by cognates) in this language. My current estimation of reaching B2 would be 2 to 2.5 solid years of work. Hope by then I can travel to Japan or Russia to take the TRKI exam.

Spanish
I start watching season 5 of La casa de papel and it is a very good reminder of how bad my Spanish still is. I can't understand the dialogue without pausing every 5 sentences and look up a word in the subtitles.
Last edited by kelvin921019 on Tue Sep 07, 2021 2:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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