Kelvin's RU, JP, ESP log <- In this order

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kelvin921019
Green Belt
Posts: 388
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2020 12:11 pm
Location: Hong Kong
Languages: Cantonese (N)
Chinese Mandarin (Semi-Native)
English (C1-2)
Spanish (B2)
Japanese (N1)
Russian (B1)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=16306
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Re: JP, ESP, RU log: I thought life would be easier but no....

Postby kelvin921019 » Mon Mar 08, 2021 7:27 am

Japanese: Tobira, Soumatome N3 Vocabulary
Spanish: Reviewing B2 materials
Russian: NPRC


My Japanese and Spanish deck maintain a 7% "again" rate (actually can be 10% if I’m stringent enough with the minor mistakes). Not sure if it's a good idea. I am revising around 180-200 Japanese flashcards and 100-120 Spanish flashcards daily. It's good for recalling all the unused words but sometime it has become kind of ritual for me.

Japanese
I should be completing N3 grammar and vocabularies this month. According to internet, the N3 knowledge should be some wear near A2-B1. Perhaps it explains why I still struggle a lot while listening to native material.

One thing I suffer the most in both Japanese (and partly in Spanish) is that I lack necessary sentence pattern of those spontaneous / normal responses (e.g. to express gratitude / to say "excuse me"). Especially in Japanese perhaps I need to memorize more stock phrases (perhaps a phrase book will do) of what sound proper (not only content, but the way of expressing stuff and the manner).

As my progress in Japanese is much slower than Spanish, from time to time I feel some kind of burn out. It's not that I won't do anything, but I'm just doing

Español
Se me olvidó que tengo que escribir la entrada de estudio de español en español....

Acabo de acabar con la lista de vocabularios en el libro "Preparación" para el nivel B1. Tomo un día de descanso y planeo seguir con la lista para el nivel B2. Tengo muy claro que esto no significa todo los vocabularios para el nivel B1 y B2 (por supuesto no debería existir un determinada lista de vocabularios para el nivel B1 y B2 dado que MCER no es un programa sino una calificación del nivel según el rendimiento de alguna persona / el capacidad de alguna persona).

En corto plazo (concretamente en el año 2021) quisiera complir con los seguientes:
- Repasar el libro "Las Claves" B2
- leer dos novelas (Corazón tan blanco u otro, o sea "Sapiens" o "la sombra de viento")
- terminar el libro "gramatica del uso del español c1 c2" (he pedido en Amazon)
Quizá en 2022 (o más adelante) tomaré el examen DELE otra vez para el nivel C1. Recordánme: No me apure!

Russian
I really hate saying this, duolingo can serve as a workbook for NPRC. For the very least it consists of those very short sentences where I can practice the basic declension and conjugations.

While Assimil would be the most effective tool, in the first half of 2021 I can sometimes work on duolingo for helping me consolidate the knowledge in NPRC (in particular on the "exceptions").

My short term goal (once again 2021) will be reaching solid B1 by December so that I can hammer myself to B2 in 2022 (once again, consistency and burn out will be an issue).

I have bought New French with Ease, I can't guarantee that I won't study any new language in 2022
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kelvin921019
Green Belt
Posts: 388
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2020 12:11 pm
Location: Hong Kong
Languages: Cantonese (N)
Chinese Mandarin (Semi-Native)
English (C1-2)
Spanish (B2)
Japanese (N1)
Russian (B1)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=16306
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Re: JP, ESP, RU log: I thought life would be easier but no....

Postby kelvin921019 » Fri Mar 12, 2021 7:53 pm

Japanese: Tobira, Soumatome N3 Vocabulary
Spanish: Reviewing B2 materials
Russian: NPRC



Japanese
I'm now in the last chapter of Tobira, soon I will finish tobira and step into the final section of N3. I wonder how tough it has to be for a non-chinese speaking people to go through this book. There are so many kanji in the last few chapters that I find it much easier to go through. It makes me wonder how impressive it has to be for someone without any knowledge in Chinese to go through that much Kanji. I think anyone who get to N3 / finish Tobira deserves a medal.

I am struggling a lot when I speak Japanese. It's like the case in my first few lessons in Spanish that I can't even string a proper sentence. I finally start to get the ending right but I keep realizing that how insufficient my current vocabulary in Japanese is. By adopting the more conventional approach (as it gears towards the JLPT format), I have to absorb vast amount of useless (in the sense that it's useless for me) vocabularies. I have been through this once in Spanish so I know how to tackle it but I still have to stick to the JLPT syllabus so it's kind of problematic for me. I'm not blaming JLPT for not teaching useful japanese words but my urge to stick to prescribed vocabulary list.
Let see if things get better after finishing N2.

Al fin y al cabo, I am doing 1 lesson per 2 weeks, the progress must be slow.

Not much update for Spanish and Russian.
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kelvin921019
Green Belt
Posts: 388
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2020 12:11 pm
Location: Hong Kong
Languages: Cantonese (N)
Chinese Mandarin (Semi-Native)
English (C1-2)
Spanish (B2)
Japanese (N1)
Russian (B1)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=16306
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Re: JP, ESP, RU log: I thought life would be easier but no....

Postby kelvin921019 » Mon Mar 15, 2021 6:37 am

Japanese: Tobira, Soumatome N3 Vocabulary
Spanish: Reviewing B2 materials
Russian: NPRC


Japanese: Reality check
Few weeks before, I was pretty disappointed with my lack of vocabularies and my lack of ability to form sentence as fluent as my Spanish. Then I just looked back and did a reality check:
I had 30 speaking lessons in Spanish before taking DELE with 2 lessons per week
I am now in about N3 (without sufficient vocabularies), which is equivalent of a low B1 knowledge (it doesn't mean I speak like a low B1, just I have sufficient passive knowledge), with 1 lesson per 2 weeks.
I think I am in the right track. I think I can only give myself a fair assessment of my progress after finishing N2 exam AND having a bunch of speaking practice thereafter.

Español
Tomé un poco de descanso de español por la falta de tiempo (demasiado trabajo y poco descanso). Mantengo mis conocimientos en español a través de Anki y 10 minutos de noticias / youtube cada día nomás. Añado cada día acerca de 15 palabras desde la lista en el libro "Preparación B2" al Anki. Quizás me preguntes por qué repaso una lista de vocabularios que no sirve para nada (de veras las palabaras casi nunca aparecen en las lecturas y videos que consumo). Creo que estos sirven para rellenar los huecos en mi conocimientos por la falta de contacto de español cotidiano y sobre esos, lamentablemente, tal vez me examinarían en el examen o en mi viaje al país hispanohablante. Al menos puedo contarle mi heridas al médico después de estar peleado por un discurso acalorado en español.

Russian
I had an overview of the Penguin book. It gives me a feel that it would be so satisfying if I could grasp the language because seriously this language is so challenging.

My ultimate aim would be трки by the end of 2022. Through some quick research, this exam can’t be done in Hong Kong. I’m seriously thinking that (in case there’s a relaxation of the travel rules), I need to either travel to Russian or travel to Japan (so hitting two birds with one stone) for taking the exam. For трки 2 (since I'm a B2 hunter) I need about 6000 words, Penguin will give me 1500 words + 500 more I guess from Assimil. So I need to consume quite a lot of contents after Assimil.

I am close to finishing tobira and need to reconsider my daily schedule, especially since I can't install japanese keyboard in my working computer. This would result in too much workload at night for creating quite a lot of Anki cards at home (Japanese vocabulary, Japanese sentence translation, Spanish vocabularies, Russian vocabularies). My tasks are as follows:
Japanese
- NKZM N3 book + Creating Anki cards (sentence translation cards)
- Soumatome N3 book (now on the "third week") + Creating Anki cards ( vocabularies)
- Youtube / Netflix (Massive immersion)
Spanish
- Creating Anki cards from the list in "preparación" B2 list
- Corazon tan blanco
- Youtube / Netflix
Russian
- Penguin book + Creating Anki cards (vocabularies w/ forvo audio)

[Edit log: I have forgotten to complete the Japanese part :P]
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kelvin921019
Green Belt
Posts: 388
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2020 12:11 pm
Location: Hong Kong
Languages: Cantonese (N)
Chinese Mandarin (Semi-Native)
English (C1-2)
Spanish (B2)
Japanese (N1)
Russian (B1)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=16306
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Re: JP, ESP, RU log: I thought life would be easier but no....

Postby kelvin921019 » Thu Mar 18, 2021 3:23 pm

Japanese: New Reading Plan (Tentative)
I have finally finished the book Tobira (the main book) and will proceed with finishing the Kanji book and the Grammar book. My next step will be to read and listen to native contents so as to absorb new vocabularies and get familiarised native contents.

I have ordered a novel from the internet but I reckon it will be better to start with some short articles / writings. Then today I listened to Haruka's podcast and she, like me, is recently very into YOASOBI (Yay!). She recommended us to try readingタナトスの誘惑 (the temptation of Thanatos)(link: https://monogatary.com/story/33826), which is the origin of their most famous song 夜に駆ける (running towards the night). I originally was reluctant to do so as I don't want to commit myself to a long novel. Turn out Haruka told us that it's a 3-min reading from a free amateur novel site. So I did it. I put the entire novel into LingQ and completed it in 10 mins.

Then, I thought to myself, why don't I read all the other original novels of YOASOBI's song. Turn out these are the available ones:
- たぶん [Song: たぶん]
https://monogatary.com/story/48324
- 月王子 [Song:ハルカ]
https://monogatary.com/story/109216
- 世界の終わりと、さよならのうた [Song: アンコール]
https://monogatary.com/story/50040
- 夢の雫と星の花(いしき蒼太) [Song: あの夢をなぞって]
https://monogatary.com/story/38869
- それでも、ハッピーエンド [Song: ハルジオン]
https://cp.zone-energy.jp/music/yoasobi/novel/

Likely I'll just put them into LingQ (except the last one) and read them twice or thrice, putting some new words into Anki. After that, I'll start a long novel (I think ナミヤ雑貨店の奇蹟 would be a good starting point)

[Edit note: adding two more novel and all song references]
[Edit note: re-arrange the novel according to its length]
Last edited by kelvin921019 on Sat Mar 27, 2021 11:20 am, edited 2 times in total.
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kelvin921019
Green Belt
Posts: 388
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2020 12:11 pm
Location: Hong Kong
Languages: Cantonese (N)
Chinese Mandarin (Semi-Native)
English (C1-2)
Spanish (B2)
Japanese (N1)
Russian (B1)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=16306
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Re: JP, ESP, RU log: I thought life would be easier but no....

Postby kelvin921019 » Sun Mar 21, 2021 6:28 pm

Japanese: NKZM N3, Soumatome N3 Vocabulary
Spanish: Reviewing B2 materials
Russian: NPRC


Recently I bumped into someone on the internet who dabbed 10 hours of each language and claimed that he knows Swedish, Icelandic, Galaeic and some North American indigenous language and started teaching people how to learn language. To be honest that really irritates me and makes me wonder why have I been studying so hard just to get to a decent level of the language.

It also makes me reflect on my approach. I am now learning 3 languages while the best one (excluding English) is at a certified B2 but in fact B1 (because while I can complain about my work fluently in Spanish I can't even describe the recent story that I have read in Spanish without stuttering every 2 seconds). While the big box of Assimil French keeps tempting me to learn French right after Russian, I think I should spend some time hammer each language to a close to C level before moving on.

Japanese
Finally I have finished TOBIRA!
The last few chapters of this book is quite difficult as they just throw you a very long article for you to read. The grammar, on the other hand, is less confusing than the others. Short review
Pros
- Long and merciless readings, you can start reading manga with a dictionary right after that
- covers most of N3 grammar and some N2 ones
- it covers quite a lot of vocabs
- it is interesting to go through the book as it covers a lot of cultural topics (a bit outdated but that's an overview)
Cons
- it doesn't covers enough vocabs / grammatical item for you to go straight into a novel
- the grammar explanation isn't that clear. I often need to look up the grammar point in google
- the grammar exercise isn't suitable for solo study (I don't know if my sentences are right or wrong)
- it's thick, and I think I have gain a bit muscle just by carrying the book everyday

However, as I start digging deeper into this language, I notice that it is very similar to Chinese. It doesn't mean that it's very easy to learn as a native Chinese speaker, but that it has different level of formalness and it has extensive use of figurative language e.g. 目の前に、手前、手頃、目に入る (unlike idioms, it just fuses into the day-to-day language). It means that for the same idea there are tens of expression. I guess I will need to spend a lot of years of work in order to just get to a comfortable level in this language.

Up next, my 文庫本 ナミヤ雑貨店 has arrived. I always enjoy holding a Japanese 文庫本 as it fits comfortably in my hand and the design is perfect for reading on transit (A6 soft cover). I will start reading it after I have finished the YOASOBI short novel project.

[Next update: whining about Corazon tan blanco and Russian]
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kelvin921019
Green Belt
Posts: 388
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2020 12:11 pm
Location: Hong Kong
Languages: Cantonese (N)
Chinese Mandarin (Semi-Native)
English (C1-2)
Spanish (B2)
Japanese (N1)
Russian (B1)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=16306
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Re: Kelvin's JP, ESP, RU log: Looking for a better title to this log

Postby kelvin921019 » Mon Mar 22, 2021 11:50 am

Español: Mis quejas sobre "Corázon tan blanco"

Dale, Corázon tan blanco. Todavía me engancha este libro. El autor ha logrado crear un ambiente de suspenso, pero con demasiado recuerdos y reflexiones. Es posible que yo lea 1-2 páginas de la historía principal y después tenga que aguantar 3-4 de historía, reflexión o pensamientos lejano del protagonista. Es divertido la primera vez que leí el protagonista describir vividamente el movimiento de Miriam. No obstante, se vuelve cada vez más insorportable cuando la historía se interrumpa cada dos o tres páginas. Encima, se emplea muchas palabras de literatura o palabras decriptivas y resulta que tengo que buscar el diccionario cada cinco segundos (por culpa de la falta de vocabulario, reconozco). Al fin y al cabo, logro acabar con el segundo capitulo del libro. Creo que será largo....
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kelvin921019
Green Belt
Posts: 388
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2020 12:11 pm
Location: Hong Kong
Languages: Cantonese (N)
Chinese Mandarin (Semi-Native)
English (C1-2)
Spanish (B2)
Japanese (N1)
Russian (B1)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=16306
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Re: Kelvin's JP, ESP, RU log: Looking for a better title to this log

Postby kelvin921019 » Tue Mar 23, 2021 3:28 pm

Japanese: NKZM N3, Soumatome N3 Vocabulary
Spanish: Reviewing B2 materials
Russian: NPRC, Pimsleur


Japanese
- タナトスの誘惑 [Song: 夜に駆ける] (33 highlighted / 321 unique words)
- たぶん [Song: たぶん] (111 highlighted / 630 unique words)

Today I finished the first reading of たぶん and my mood was so bad the entire day because the story was too moody and sad. I listened to the song たぶん of YOASOBI again and the Music Video and the lyrics almost made me depress. Interestingly I kept picturing that the main character is a male and the broke-up partner is a girl but the music video showed that the main character is in fact a girl.

Language learning wise, this is a much difficult read than タナトスの誘惑 as you can see the amount of words highlighted per "unique words". It's about 82-3% comprehension rate of a native written material although the actual rate would be like 85% since some expression are kanji which I don't know its pronunciation but its meaning. I'm going to put some of the useful words and expression into Anki before moving on to the next chapter

Russian
I decided to complement my studies with Pimsleur so as to make good use of my return trip home (which used to be for reviewing Tobira and reading up some Corazon tan blanco). Given that I may become busy, I may need to use my night time for studying japanese if my lunch time is not available. In order to keep going I decided to use Pimsleur. It will be used to fill up my transport time or running time. I have finished the lessons at a rate of 2 lessons per day for now but definitely will slow down when its content surpass my NCPR progress.

Pimsleur is useful to drill the most basic patterns as NPRC is too grammar heavy and sometimes it can be used to fix my pronunciation and my spontaneousness.

I also get the “Russian in practice” book. It’s just all practice without explanation. It will be used after Assimil for reinforcing my grammar

[So what about Corázon tan blanco? I'm going to start the next chapter if I have time.]
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kelvin921019
Green Belt
Posts: 388
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2020 12:11 pm
Location: Hong Kong
Languages: Cantonese (N)
Chinese Mandarin (Semi-Native)
English (C1-2)
Spanish (B2)
Japanese (N1)
Russian (B1)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=16306
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Re: Kelvin's JP, ESP, RU log: Looking for a better title to this log

Postby kelvin921019 » Tue Mar 30, 2021 5:56 pm

Japanese: NKZM N3, Soumatome N3 Vocabulary, YOASOBI novel reading
Spanish: Reviewing B2 materials
Russian: NPRC, Pimsleur


I usually write down sentences of something happen to me in draft and update the log when I have enough thing to say here.

Japanese
NKZM is a good exercise. It not only tests on particular grammar, but also mix them with previously learnt items (in N4-5) to make sure I'm not doing by elimination or wild guessing. N3 level has quite a lot of overlapping with Tobira so it gives me some kind of breathing space before I hit the N2 materials in the coming....3 months.

I've finished going through たぶん and put some of the words into Anki. This is a more difficult novel but in the end I finish reading it thrice and learnt quite a lot of words. I'm now reading a longer one now (月王子). Comparatively this is much easier than たぶん and I encounter less new words than たぶん. In the meantime...YOASOBI just published 2 new songs!! so now there are 2 more novels to go through:-

- RGB(小御門優一郎 ): YOASOBI新曲"三原色"
https://ahamo.com/special/yoasobi/
- めぐる: YOASOBI "もう少しだけ"
https://monogatary.com/story/146439

I think these novels should be enough for my April and May. Reading has not been much of a big problem to me so I treat it as a way to train up my vocabulary and to understand what are the more "native" choice of words instead of the textbook style of word. To be honest, the JLPT vocabulary list and the NKZM master usually sticks to the more rigid and textbook style vocabulary. I found that these are not really useful when it comes to watching anime and novels.

My 3rd Speaking lesson - instead of trying to sound witty, I tried to talk slower and using mainly N4 level sentence structures and vocabularies. This turns out to be good for slowly training up my "japanese mindset" because I still need to go through the "Cantonese -> Japanese" thinking process for every sentence I wish to say. On the other hand, my tutor seems to be a bit lost in calibrating my level perhaps because on one hand I demonstrated a fair level of reading and vocabulary on the other hand I speak like a toddler. Hope we both get better.

[Next update - Español / Russian]
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kelvin921019
Green Belt
Posts: 388
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2020 12:11 pm
Location: Hong Kong
Languages: Cantonese (N)
Chinese Mandarin (Semi-Native)
English (C1-2)
Spanish (B2)
Japanese (N1)
Russian (B1)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=16306
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Re: Kelvin's JP, ESP, RU log: Looking for a better title to this log

Postby kelvin921019 » Wed Mar 31, 2021 4:43 am

Short update on novel reading
I have finished reading 月王子 and it is a very warm story (about how a cup watch over the life of his owner until the cup "death") with a mildly depressing ending. The comprehension rate is roughly 90% (I use the amount of marked words vs the "unique word" as a reference).

I used to thought ハルカ is a very upbeat, happy song. After reading the story and the lyrics, the song almost makes me cry as it's about the cup expressing his gratitude to his owner for sharing every happy moments with him(or it?).

I'm going to pick the next novel soon.
3 x

kelvin921019
Green Belt
Posts: 388
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2020 12:11 pm
Location: Hong Kong
Languages: Cantonese (N)
Chinese Mandarin (Semi-Native)
English (C1-2)
Spanish (B2)
Japanese (N1)
Russian (B1)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=16306
x 1228

Re: Kelvin's JP, ESP, RU log: Looking for a better title to this log

Postby kelvin921019 » Sat Apr 03, 2021 5:26 pm

Japanese: NKZM N3, Soumatome N3 Vocabulary, YOASOBI novel reading
Spanish: Reviewing B2 materials
Russian: NPRC, Pimsleur


I know it very clear to doing L1 to L2 cards may hinder my recognition. It happens a few times when I can't remember the meaning of a word while I can say the word from the L1. I think that's pretty acceptable though because passive recognition of words can be reinforced by exposure.

Japanese
[To be updated] Recently I'm hooked in listening to J-pop but this is the least helpful way to learn Japanese unless I start to read the lyrics instead of learning the guitar riffs.

Spanish
Algo que me interesa últimamente es "el robo de siglo" (de Argentina, al parecer cada país llama su propio robo más famoso "el robo de siglo"). Encontré este robo cuando veía un video (en Chino) sobre los crímenes más famoso en siglo último. Este "robo de siglo" me llamó la atención porque es un robo singular. Además, se me ocurría que (y ahora estoy convencido de que) "La Casa de Papel" (las primeras dos temporadas) se basa en este robo. Comparten demasiado características simulares (e.g. armas falsa, un ataque falso para conseguir otro motivo, un ataque contra la sistema).

se los conté a mi profesor de conversación y me recomendó que viera la película "El robo del siglo". Voy a verla cuando tenga tiempo en la semana que viene.

Todavía estoy añadiendo los vocabularios en "preparación B2" a Anki. Creo que soy aún muy lejos de C1 (ni siquiera B2) y cometo demasiado errores en conjugación básica a la hora de conversación. No entiendo lo que me dice mi profesor cuando habla en la velocidad natural.

Russian
I am still going very slow with NPRC. I originally planned that I can do 1 lesson per week but turn out the vocabulary list is too difficult to digest in 1 week. I cut the lessons into smaller chunks so that I can manage the workload and balance it with my other languages (especially Japanese). Now I'm expecting that I will reach only Chapter 16 or 17 at July. It is expected that I won't finish NPRC even after Assimil.

Pimsleur on the other hand isn’t good as a standalone course. Starting with NPRC turn out to be a very good strategy because no one could absorb the Russian grammar using only Pimsleur. I think I have some luck to choose the time of starting Pimsleur. Without my knowledge on the genetive case I think I will struggle a lot with Pimsleur now.

Pimsleur did not mention anything about perfective and imperfective aspects but so far it does not affect my understanding of the sentences. I think I need to going through Chpt 12 and 13 so that I can understand why in some sentence the perfective form is used while in some sentence the imperfective form of a verb is used.

According to my schedule, I think I will be able to finish all 3 levels of Pimsleur by July. The only concern is that whether it will supercede the NPRC so much that I have to slow down Pimsleur (I plan to go through one or two chapters of NPRC before I move onto Pimsleur level 2).
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