German Minigroup: Escaping the Eternal A1

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Cavesa
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Re: CarlyD and Cavesa: Escaping the Eternal A1

Postby Cavesa » Tue Oct 27, 2020 10:57 am

CarlyD wrote:I honestly think we could do 5 or maybe even 6 people and still be a small group. So welcome, lingua.

I remember the TACs from when I first started here. I joined one all gung ho--and it faded away in the first month.

I've set up my goals for the week and they seem too "busywork." One is to finish section 60 in Busuu--but shouldn't they be more defined like "learn past participles" or something? Hmmm...... I'm glad this is our "get ready" week so hopefully this will work itself out.


I totally agree. Up to 6 can be still a small group, it just requires that we all have the same goal, and stick to the same rules as much as possible, to profit from the group effect and avoid the fate of the TACs :-)

The only thing in need of changing: the name of the log, I'll put the minigroup instead of our names there :-)

To your goal making question: I am not sure which option is more defined. Honestly, I think "learn past participle" is a bit more vague, as it provokes the tons of imposter syndrom kind of questions, like "have I really learnt it enough?" So, I will definitely stick to a sort of a compromise. Instead of just "3 units of a grammar book", or the problem "past participle", I'll probably try to always go for "3 units on past participle".
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Re: CarlyD and Cavesa: Escaping the Eternal A1

Postby lingua » Tue Oct 27, 2020 8:47 pm

It might be useful to look into the SMART goal concept. There is a lot of information out there about it.

For something like Assimil it's unknown what the actual subject is until you do it so I think it's sufficient to state that I will do X number of lessons/dialogs per week following the recommended procedure.

Cavesa, do you consider Speechling a serious resource? I mostly free-form my Italian on that site. But I could consider doing the German there in some structured manner. Probably the verbs would be a good start to solidify the conjugations.
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DE: books: 0 / 2500 film: 1654 / 4500
IT: books: 3065 / 5000 film: 5031 / 9000
PT: books: 2921 / 5000 film: 5010 / 9000

Output Challenge 2023:
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Re: CarlyD and Cavesa: Escaping the Eternal A1

Postby Cavesa » Tue Oct 27, 2020 9:29 pm

lingua wrote:It might be useful to look into the SMART goal concept. There is a lot of information out there about it.

For something like Assimil it's unknown what the actual subject is until you do it so I think it's sufficient to state that I will do X number of lessons/dialogs per week following the recommended procedure.

Cavesa, do you consider Speechling a serious resource? I mostly free-form my Italian on that site. But I could consider doing the German there in some structured manner. Probably the verbs would be a good start to solidify the conjugations.


Yes, we are actually doing exactly the SMART goals thing, there are various ways to incorporate this idea. All the things on the Week Goals list are Specific (that's why I am more for a goal like "chapter 3" than "2 hours of coursebook study"), Measurable (I'd say "Unit 3 and 4" is better than "learn the past participle", but CarlyD disagrees, which is normal. Both ways can work ), Achieveable (That's why I'm trying to keep the list short and would recommend everybody to not get too excited at first), Relevant (all of the things on our lists are meant to be serious resources leading to the goal of B1), and Time Based (Weekly Goals).

Yes, I consider Speechling to be one of the most serious pronunciation oriented resources I've ever seen. I am not too convinced by some of the secondary functions (some sort of flashcards, comprehension exercises, etc). As usual, I believe the good apps are good, because they do one thing right, and they fulfill a function a standard high quality general course leaves a gap. Once an app focuses on too many things and tries to become the course, it tends to fall apart. But Speechling is focused on its primary purpose, in spite of offering some other tools too, which is giving tons of very good pronunciation feedback.

The seriousness in this case is not primarily about the structure of the main course (which is not bad, but I plan to use some other stuff in "free form" too, for example a few chapters from a medical textbook I've got). It's the quality of the feedback. While the tutors vary a bit in their style (some just say the thing right, others explain a bit where the problem is.), they are all far superior to not only the computer speech recognition (this bar is very low), and to self study with audio (which is not bad, and often better than many tutors, but still has limits), but also to almost all the language teachers and tutors I've ever met.

We can also assess the seriousness of a resource by considering how much focus and hard work it demands from the user. Speechling is very serious. It can even be tiring at times, but it is worth it. (I wonder how many more corrections I'll need to get the word "Kirche" absolutely right :-D It's my worst word ever).
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Re: German Minigroup: Escaping the Eternal A1

Postby CarlyD » Wed Oct 28, 2020 8:21 pm

Cavesa--you were right. I'm overthinking the goal thing.

So as we're almost to the beginning of the 6 Week Challenge, I've worked out my goal schedule. I'm doing a weekly goal sheet every Monday, and then to keep myself on track, at the end of each day I'm listing what I want/hope to do the next day. So far, this is working great. I had a major internet issue yesterday, so had to re-adjust and roll things forward to today, and it worked fine.

lingua--I was looking at some blog posts about the SMART goal setting. I saved a podcast about it, but had to wait until my internet speeded up, so will look at it today.

One thing I saw (don't remember from whom) was to base your schedule on working on the big four: speaking, reading, understanding, writing and try to work on something from each area every day/week. Good point--I tend to focus more on reading than speaking.
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Re: German Minigroup: Escaping the Eternal A1

Postby Cavesa » Wed Oct 28, 2020 8:40 pm

I think my update and goal setting day should be Sunday. But that is not that much of a difference.

My goals will be meant as the minimum, with some space for overachievement. I will definitely not sort them out by the four skills, at least at first. I'll sort it by resource or activity. And I cannot micromanage myself into daily lists, otherwise I'll get blocked. My brain doesn't tolerate that too well, I am still in a sort of studying reconvalescence. :-D

But so far, it looks good, like it's working.

Just testing something: &#x2705
✅ ok, this didn't go well, i'll just have to copy the symbol on my lists.
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Re: German Minigroup: Escaping the Eternal A1

Postby Cavesa » Wed Oct 28, 2020 8:43 pm

Are we allowed to edit our Weekly Goal Posts, for example to check the completed tasks? Or do we protect ourselves from any editing temptation by leaving them alone, with checks coming in a separate Weekly Report post? (Which is probably going to be merged with the goals for the following week)
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Re: German Minigroup: Escaping the Eternal A1

Postby lingua » Wed Oct 28, 2020 9:45 pm

I think it would be better to just update the completed tasks at the end of the week. I generally only read new posts and since I want to read what everyone has to say I wouldn't want to miss anything by forgetting to go backwards.

For now, I don't plan to split out the different skills. But, I'll try to make sure I'm covering them all over the next few weeks. Right now I want to create the daily habit of at least 30 minutes of serious German study.

Today I did a little German on Speechling. I am curious to see what kind of feedback I get tomorrow.
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Super Challenge 2022-23:
DE: books: 0 / 2500 film: 1654 / 4500
IT: books: 3065 / 5000 film: 5031 / 9000
PT: books: 2921 / 5000 film: 5010 / 9000

Output Challenge 2023:
IT: write: 0 / 50000 record: 84 / 3000
PT: write: 0 / 50000 record: 0 / 3000

PT: Read 100 books: 28 / 100

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Cavesa
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Re: German Minigroup: Escaping the Eternal A1

Postby Cavesa » Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:05 pm

lingua wrote:I think it would be better to just update the completed tasks at the end of the week. I generally only read new posts and since I want to read what everyone has to say I wouldn't want to miss anything by forgetting to go backwards.

For now, I don't plan to split out the different skills. But, I'll try to make sure I'm covering them all over the next few weeks. Right now I want to create the daily habit of at least 30 minutes of serious German study.

Today I did a little German on Speechling. I am curious to see what kind of feedback I get tomorrow.


Ok. So, I'll probably go for leaving the goal posts alone, and copying and checking the list at the end of the week, with comments and the new list.
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Re: German Minigroup: Escaping the Eternal A1

Postby CarlyD » Sat Oct 31, 2020 10:02 pm

Are we ready for the official beginning of Escaping the Eternal A1?

I still haven't set up official goals--for the month, for the whole challenge, etc., but I'm getting really comfortable setting up a daily To Do list every day for the next day. I don't always finish it, and have to roll something to the next day, but I think I'm getting more done each day.

Week 1:

German Uncovered--full review of Chapter 4.
Busuu--A1, lessons 63, 64 and hopefully 65, with reviews every day
Rocket German--lessons 1.3 and 1.4 with emphasis on speaking
Nico's Weg (or other course from DW) start and see what I think
Textbooks: Step by Step--Chapter 10, Datives, at least 8 pages
PMP German Grammar or Complete German--at least 8 pages of either (need to set better goal for this)
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2024 15,000 pages Reading Challenge--pages: 1180 / 15000

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Re: German Minigroup: Escaping the Eternal A1

Postby Cavesa » Sun Nov 01, 2020 11:54 pm

I am so glad we had a testing week!

What worked great: smaller and well defined goals, smaller amount of resources. I managed to "overachieve" in some of the ways, which is pleasant.
What didn't work: I really struggle with putting in the half an hour, I need a better strategy for bad work days and nights.

So, WEEK 0 Report (I am changing the numbers to fit CarlyD)
Daf Kompakt:
--review unit 1
--dissect Unit 1 for cloze deletion anki cards
--catch up with Memrise reviews and learn vocab up to unit 2 ✅
Speechling:
--finish Nouns ✅
--finish Beginner 3 ✅
--first 100 Verbs ✅
........................................
WEEK 1 Goals (Start with the 6WC)
Daf Kompakt:
--review Unit 1
--unit 1 to Anki
--Memrise keep up with the reviews
--Memrise deck: Unit 3
Speechling:
--Intermediate 1
--Verbs up to 300
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