Mack's log: Mandarin, damn the torpedoes!

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Dr Mack Rettosy
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Oct 14th 2020 – October 14th 2021: One Year Update

Postby Dr Mack Rettosy » Thu Oct 14, 2021 4:11 pm

Oct 14th 2020 – October 14th 2021: One Year Update

Here we are, the big one year update!

I'm not sure I have a whole lot to say, apologies if this update is underwhelming. I prefer posting whenever a thought or breakthrough occurs, and not have to wait for the monthly posts. So, if you've been directed here from my table of contents, I'd highly suggest reading posts that are in between these updates.

My writing and speaking skills are still rudimentary, and beyond speaking to myself and occasionally writing, I have done next to zero output. So perhaps an A1? However, my input skills are solidly intermediate, particularly my reading. If pressed to give an estimate of my input comprehension, I would venture to say B1. BUT, that's just a guess, because this is my L2 I don't have another language learning experience to serve as a basis of comparison. I'm happy with my progress and current abilities, but obviously want to improve many areas. My overall goal is still to become "fluent". Happy to say my ambitions have tempered and I no longer feel a sense of urgency to "master" Mandarin. I'm content taking my time and enjoying the process. I'm in it for the long haul, and I know I'll get there eventually.

Summary of my Work Flow / Study Materials
-Completed the HelloChinese course
-Began passive listening habit (~40 podcasts and conversations)
-Read ~250 news articles in pinyin with The Chairman's Bao
-Completed the HelloChinese immersion lessons
-Began "immersing" in visual media (six movies, one anime, three TV shows, many youtube videos)
-Completed Heisig's Remembering the Simplified Hanzi
-Read 50 graded readers

Statistics
Studied a total of 877 hours.
Averaged 2 hours and 24 minutes a day.

annual update_1.png


Future goals:
These are in roughly chronological order. I have a lot of thoughts behind each one of these bullet points but I'll leave them for future "study update" posts.
- begin reading children books
- create a flashcard workflow for immersions (learning with youtube/netflix, migaku, Anki).
- master slice of life domain by watching Peppa Pig
- start having conversations, perhaps with a hired tutor?
- study a grammar textbook
- begin reading native novels
- transition to monolingual dictionary
- create a chengyu catalog

Ongoing goals:
Rainbow Bridge Graded Readers: 13 / 15 / 15 higher books
Read: 243000 / 10000000 /10,000,000 汉字
Study: 877 / 5000 / 5000 hours

Completed goals:
✓ HelloChinese Maincourse [14 Oct 2020 - 29 Nov 2020]
✓ HelloChinese Immersions [1 Dec 2020 - 6 March 2021]
✓ Heisig's Remembering the Simplified Hanzi Vol I [31 Jan 2020 - 22 April 2021]
✓ Read Rainbow Bridge Graded Readers; 20 starter books [04 May 2021 - 24 May 2021]
✓ Read Mandarin Companion Readers; 17 books [July 6th 2021 - Oct 8th 2021]

Suspended goals:
X Read 500 HSK1-5 TCB articles in pinyin [read ~250 HSK1-3 articles; 1 Dec 2020 - 25 March 2021]
X Anki Spoonfed Chinese [reached 886/8017 cards; 25 Mar 2021 - 13 Aug 2021]
X Heisig's Remembering the Simplified Hanzi Vol II [never began]
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Last edited by Dr Mack Rettosy on Wed Oct 27, 2021 7:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.
8 x
Mandarin goals:
Read: 2146000 / 10000000 /10,000,000 汉字
Study: 2006 / 5000 / 5000 hours

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Dr Mack Rettosy
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Study plan update - Children's and YA literature

Postby Dr Mack Rettosy » Wed Oct 27, 2021 4:39 pm

Well married life is off to a great start! We are planning a trip to NYC over Halloween. The Mrs. has been many times but this will be my first visit. We're planning to see a Broadway show, visit museums, take a food tour, and most certainly other touristy things. We will have a day in Manhattan's China town. I anticipate a lot of Cantonese but hope to use some Mandarin. If anyone has suggestions for shops or good eats in that district I'm all ears!

On the Mandarin learning front I've been taking full advantage of my time off between jobs. The past week I've pushed my studying back up to three hours a day, some days even more. I am very much enjoying reading and excited about my improving literacy. And I've been able to spend some much needed time catching up with friends and family. All in all, life is good and I am having some of the happiest days of my life.

On to the study plan update. I'm just about done with all the graded readers I set out to read in May 2020. I have one left, RGB's Level 6 abridged Journey to the West.

My next goal is to work through children's and young adult literature. This reddit post contributed by A-V-A Weyland contains an enormous amount of reading material, a complete list posted below. The collection has breadth and depth including translations of classic Western works (Winnie the Pooh, Doctor Dolittle, Grimm's Fairy Tales, Roald Dahl, Wizard of Oz, etc.) and native Chinese authors (Zhang Tianyi, Youjun Sun, and Cao Wenxuan, etc.). My plan is to start with the material in the Ages 2-6 category. Each category has a selection of material, single books to whole collections, and I'll probably give each work a chance. If the language is at my level and I'm enjoying the writing I'll keep reading, if not, I can afford to be picky and move on to the next book. I want to strike a balance between intensive and extensive reading, anything below 90% comprehension I'll set aside as being too difficult. After I finish Ages 2-6, I'll start Ages 6-9 material, then 9-12, and finally 12-15. It's hard to say how long this will take. With my new job and future family obligations, I expect anywhere between 1-3 years.

While reading I will be making i+1 flashcards with Anki. I'll try to make 3-10 flash cards a day picking the most frequent/critical words for the story. Each flashcard will prompt me with a sentence with the new word highlighted in blue, and on the other side pinyin and definition of word in English. Decks will be made specifically for each book and reviewed in the morning before reading (will spend no longer than 15 minutes a day on flashcards). After I finish the book I may continue reviewing the deck but will soon stop to focus on vocabulary and deck building for the next book. I'm not worried about forgetting words because the important words will continue to appear in the next book and it will take 30 seconds to make another flashcard.

THE LIST:
(translated from Mandarin with google)

Ages 2-6
  • The Lion King and the Sun
  • Winnie the Pooh Stories Collection
  • Several other works not listed because they do not interest me (Disney movie stories), will not work with Pleco (wrong file type), or are not extensive enough (short poems, rhymes)​

Ages 6-9
  • "The Adventures of Hal Roger" set of 14 books
  • "Weird Doctor Dolittle Series (set of 10 volumes)" Newbury
  • "Chinese History for Children 1-9"
  • Stories from the world's masters of fairy tales to boys
  • Penguin Youth Literature Classic Series (set of 10 volumes)
  • Burgess Wilderness Survival Series (set of four volumes)
  • The rabbit knows everything, please call my name
  • The Adventures of the Bragging King (Illustrated) (Childhood Books · Classics on the Bookshelf)
  • International Grand Prize Animal Novel Classic Set (16 volumes)
  • Da Lin and Xiao Lin Zhang Tianyi Children's Literature Trilogy
  • Hair defense battle (Chinese famous baby small pickup)
  • Collected Works of Sun Youjun (set of 15 volumes)
  • Primary school students' famous literature readers (a full set of 10 volumes)
  • Little slap fairy tale set 1-6 volumes
  • Children's Riddle Story King
  • The Adventures of Niels Riding a Goose (Author's List Classic Library)
  • Wizard's cloak
  • The Essence Edition Collection of Cao Wenxuan's Collected Works (7 volumes in total)
  • The most beautiful Chinese fairy tale
  • Grimm's fairy tales (210 fairy tales without deletion) (set of 2 volumes)
  • Edogawa Ranbu Boy Detective Collection (1-20 set)
  • Disaster Survival Children's Novels (11 volumes)
  • Wilde's Fairy Tales
  • The Bald King Zhang Tianyi's Children's Literature Trilogy
  • Scarecrow (Author's Edition of Chinese Children's Literature Classics)
  • Stupid Wolf and Clever Rabbit (The Stupid Wolf Story (20th Anniversary Edition))
  • The Adventures of the Bacteria World
  • Roald Dahl Collection (13 volumes in total)
  • Dad in his pocket (set of 6 volumes)

Ages 9-12
  • Bing Xin Collection, Colored Edition, Hardcover (set of 5 volumes)
  • One Hundred Thousand Whys (Sixth Edition, 18 full set)
  • The Story of the Cabin Series (9 volumes in total)
  • Fantasy King's Adventures (Volume 1-16)
  • Charlie's Diary (set 1-9 volumes)
  • Meg's Adventure in Space and Time (set of 5 volumes)
  • Boxcar Boy Bilingual Chinese and English (1-6 series, 48 ​​volumes in total)
  • Tang Poetry Lessons for Children
  • The Complete Works of The Wizard of Oz (14 volumes in total)
  • Magic castle
  • Dark Matter Trilogy

Ages 12-15
  • "Masters Recommend World Masterpieces"
  • The 60th Anniversary Collection of Chinese Children's Literature
  • New Chinese Curriculum Standard Synchronization Required Reading Series for Primary and Secondary Schools_Chaohuaxixi + Autumn in the Old Capital + Scream·Wandering, etc. (set of 9 volumes)
  • Humor Three Kingdoms Collection
  • Happy Prince (translated classic)
  • Alice in Wonderland (Charlotte Book House)
  • Secret Garden (Charlotte Book House)
7 x
Mandarin goals:
Read: 2146000 / 10000000 /10,000,000 汉字
Study: 2006 / 5000 / 5000 hours

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Dr Mack Rettosy
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Posts: 134
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2020 5:53 pm
Location: USA, The Great Lakes
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Re: Mack's log: Mandarin, damn the torpedoes!

Postby Dr Mack Rettosy » Thu Oct 28, 2021 4:20 pm

I am experiencing incredible improvements in listening comprehension. I’m getting the gist of nearly every sentence in a Peppa Pig episode and often understand whole sentences. It’s funny, I catch myself repeating phrases under my breath, imitating their voices. I really think the language is starting to click. It’s finally “landing” in my brain as meaningful sound. I have two guesses for this sudden improvement. First, it could be that I’m finally getting appropriate-level comprehensible input; the TV shows were too hard, but Peppa Pig is the sweet spot. Second, reading has increased my brain’s processing speed and is carrying over to comprehending spoken language. Previously I would recognize a few words in a sentence and by the time I realized their meaning I was trying to listen to the next sentence, but now my brain is assigning meaning almost simultaneously with hearing the words. Probably a combination of the two effects, and just committing more study time.

After 920 hours of exposure, Mandarin is finally starting to fall into place.
10 x
Mandarin goals:
Read: 2146000 / 10000000 /10,000,000 汉字
Study: 2006 / 5000 / 5000 hours

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Dr Mack Rettosy
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Posts: 134
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2020 5:53 pm
Location: USA, The Great Lakes
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Re: Mack's log: Mandarin, damn the torpedoes!

Postby Dr Mack Rettosy » Fri Nov 05, 2021 2:27 pm

The trip to NYC was great! In many ways the city met my expectations but of course was full of surprises. There were both kind and terrible people, cheap and expensive food, underwhelming and overwhelming experiences. Can’t not love it! Hope I can get back soon and see more outside Manhattan.

The visit to Chinatown was OK. Many places were closed, the economic downturn from COVID-19 has not been good for the district. I did have a few interactions in Mandarin, but mostly people spoke dialects or Cantonese (and were quite proud of that fact). Still it was fun to do a little speaking asking questions, getting directions, and haggling over prices. I wouldn’t say these were fulfilling but it has renewed by interest for outputting. There’s a motivation to begin having conversations, perhaps video chats with a tutor. I’ll think more about this and say more in a future post.
7 x
Mandarin goals:
Read: 2146000 / 10000000 /10,000,000 汉字
Study: 2006 / 5000 / 5000 hours

David27
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Languages: English (N)
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Abandoned languages (for now) :( Greek, Czech, Bengali, Arabic, Norwegian
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Re: Mack's log: Mandarin, damn the torpedoes!

Postby David27 » Fri Nov 05, 2021 11:46 pm

I’m glad you enjoyed the trip. Did you, by chance, get the opportunity to go to Flushing? I believe that’s the current largest Chinese neighborhood in New York. A bit out of the way but likely would give you a mini immersion. Pre pandemic I would try to visit Brighton beach a few times a year for a bit of Russian (or Georgian) food and conversation (just the Russian, my Georgian is 0). I always said I would get out to Flushing, but then pandemic and then baby and now…. I don’t get out much lol.
3 x

David27
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Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 8:52 pm
Languages: English (N)
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Abandoned languages (for now) :( Greek, Czech, Bengali, Arabic, Norwegian
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Re: Mack's log: Mandarin, damn the torpedoes!

Postby David27 » Sat Nov 06, 2021 12:39 pm

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.busine ... 18-5%3famp

Of interest, these maps are from a bit older census data now (I think 2011), but patterns still seem true. They don’t separate Fuzhou, Cantonese, and mandarin, but the former two are more prevalent in Manhattan with Mandarin strong Majority in Queens, but there’s always some mixing of them all.
2 x

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Dr Mack Rettosy
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Re: Mack's log: Mandarin, damn the torpedoes!

Postby Dr Mack Rettosy » Wed Nov 10, 2021 9:35 pm

David27 wrote:I’m glad you enjoyed the trip. Did you, by chance, get the opportunity to go to Flushing? I believe that’s the current largest Chinese neighborhood in New York. A bit out of the way but likely would give you a mini immersion. Pre pandemic I would try to visit Brighton beach a few times a year for a bit of Russian (or Georgian) food and conversation (just the Russian, my Georgian is 0). I always said I would get out to Flushing, but then pandemic and then baby and now…. I don’t get out much lol.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.busine ... 18-5%3famp

Of interest, these maps are from a bit older census data now (I think 2011), but patterns still seem true. They don’t separate Fuzhou, Cantonese, and mandarin, but the former two are more prevalent in Manhattan with Mandarin strong Majority in Queens, but there’s always some mixing of them all.


I had heard of Flushings from a Refold member. Unfortunately, we did not have the time to visit. In fact we barely left Manhattan save a short walk across the Brooklyn Bridge. Such shameless tourists, I know!

That's a neat map, appreciate you sharing that.
0 x
Mandarin goals:
Read: 2146000 / 10000000 /10,000,000 汉字
Study: 2006 / 5000 / 5000 hours

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Dr Mack Rettosy
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Posts: 134
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Re: Mack's log: Mandarin, damn the torpedoes!

Postby Dr Mack Rettosy » Wed Nov 10, 2021 10:39 pm

I've finished two children's books.

I started with a native book 狮子大王和太阳 by 孙幼军 (The Lion King and the Sun, by You-jun Sun). Approximately 54,000 characters read at a painful 36 CPM. These were fairy tales and the story was unfamiliar with me, plus lots of colloquial dated language made this a tough read. The book was a collection of short chapters, some seemed to stand on their own, while others had the same characters or tied into a larger story. To be honest I'm happy I could even read it. I would say about 1/3 of the book was extensive (>98% comprehension, mostly dialogue), 1/3 intensive (90-98% comprehension), and 1/3 reading pain (<90% comprehension, mostly descriptive settings). I didn't worry about understanding everything. A lot of paragraphs went over my head but got the gist of most things. 怪老头儿, the strange old man whose seems to be the stories most prominent character, made me laugh a few times. Overall I enjoyed the book but felt like I was spinning my wheels on the harder sections.

The second was a translation of the first Winnie the Pooh Bear by AA Milne. 44,000 characters, 41 CPM. In retrospect, I probably should have started with this, being a translated work and a story I'm somewhat familiar with, it was a lot easier. These were fun if a little dopey stories that remind me of my childhood. Two minor issues with the book. 1) The transliterations. Something about transliterations I dislike. Maybe they're not authentic? They certainly slow me down. E.g. Christopher Robin is 克里斯托弗·罗宾, not easy to whip out especially during dialogue. I got around this by just pronouncing the first two syllables ke4li3. 2) Word play. A lot of the plots originate when Pooh misunderstands or mispronounces a word. This is hard (but not impossible) to follow.

My Anki work flow is working well. I spend less than a minute making each card, averaging 3-8 a day. I review cards first thing the next morning and it takes less than 15 minutes.

I'm continuing the Winnie the Pooh collection by reading his second book, The House at Pooh Corner. It's going quicker thanks to a lot of the same vocabulary. The rest of the AA Milne collection is poetry and I'll be skipping because I need extensive material. Once completed, I'll have exhausted the Ages 2-6 reading material and will begin with Ages 6-9 material.
7 x
Mandarin goals:
Read: 2146000 / 10000000 /10,000,000 汉字
Study: 2006 / 5000 / 5000 hours

User avatar
Dr Mack Rettosy
Orange Belt
Posts: 134
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2020 5:53 pm
Location: USA, The Great Lakes
Languages: English (N), Mandarin
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=16180
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Re: Mack's log: Mandarin, damn the torpedoes!

Postby Dr Mack Rettosy » Sat Nov 20, 2021 5:56 pm

Finished the second Winnie the Pooh book, "The House on Pooh Corner". 47,000 characters at an improved speed of 56 CPM. The same characters, vocabulary, and writing style likely had a role. This concludes all the materials in the Ages 2-6 category:

Ages 2-6 books: 3 / 3 / 3 books [14 Oct 2021 - 18 Nov 2021]

Next comes the fun task of selecting material from the Ages 6-9 category. There's a lot here. I think I might start with the Roald Dahl Collection. I enjoy and am familiar with these stories and could use more extensive reading before trying another native writer. Reading through this single collection could take many months, so I'll probably bounce between other collections whenever I need a change.

I selected nine stories, some old favorites some new. I'll read through them in this order:
James and the Giant Peach
BFG
Matilda
Fantastic Mr Fox
Charlie and the Chocolate Factory
Charlie and the Great Glass Elevator
Witches
George's Marvellous Medicine
The Magic Finger

And of course a new progress bar, because everyone knows how much I like these:
Roald Dahl Collection: 0 / 9 / 9 books [20 Nov 2021]

On the professional side of things, I completed my first week at the new job! My new job title comes with a daunting sense of personal responsibility ("Senior Scientist") and there are some intense personalities on the team, but overall the work-life balance is a big improvement and I feel very happy. I was worried that Mandarin study would fall off, but managed to carve time every day and totaled 8 hours of study, so I'm feeling positive about my future progress!
10 x
Mandarin goals:
Read: 2146000 / 10000000 /10,000,000 汉字
Study: 2006 / 5000 / 5000 hours

User avatar
Dr Mack Rettosy
Orange Belt
Posts: 134
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2020 5:53 pm
Location: USA, The Great Lakes
Languages: English (N), Mandarin
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=16180
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Re: Mack's log: Mandarin, damn the torpedoes!

Postby Dr Mack Rettosy » Sat Dec 04, 2021 3:53 pm

1000 hours of Mandarin in the books! Or rather, the iPad.

Study: 1000 / 5000 / 5000 hours

Having reached this milestone, it feels appropriate to share some hopes and dreams of learning other languages beyond (gasp) Mandarin.

There a few languages that have been on my mind, in order of desirability:

1) Spanish. This is just such an obvious choice for so many reasons. Highly practical, easy to learn, lots of good media to consume. I love both Spanish and Latin American culture, so I think the hardest decision will be which track to go down.

2) German. I have a cousin who married into a German-speaking family whom I often see, my background learning German long ago in highschool, my German heritage... all compelling reasons.

3) Russian because Dostoyevsky, Tolstoy, Chekhov, and Solzhenitsyn.

4) Arabic. Like Chinese, a challenging language that many people speak.

By the time I'm ready to start another language this list will probably be completely different. My arbitrary start date for an L3 is when I hit 2500-3500 hours of Mandarin in, I don't know, 2-6 years? I feel strongly that my Mandarin must be at a high level before I begin my L3.
8 x
Mandarin goals:
Read: 2146000 / 10000000 /10,000,000 汉字
Study: 2006 / 5000 / 5000 hours


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