Mack's log: Mandarin, damn the torpedoes!

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Dr Mack Rettosy
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Oct 14th 2020 – June 14th 2021: Eight Month Update

Postby Dr Mack Rettosy » Mon Jun 14, 2021 5:03 pm

Oct 14th 2020 – June 14th 2021: Eight Month Update

Current Course of Study
My study time took a big hit this month from all directions: work, family, vacation, and the lift of Covid19 restrictions. Still managed to average two hours a day.

Studying is as simple as it has ever been. I wake early, eat breakfast while watching a 20 minute episode of Home with Kids, then read graded readers for 1-2 hours. At lunch I'll watch another episode. The rest of the time is spent with the Spoonfed deck, usually a few minutes here and there, at the bus stop, the gym, before dinner, etc.

I've forgotten most of my RTSH mnemonic devices, even of characters I have yet to contextualize through reading. I have mixed feelings. I'd like to refresh them, but then I have to remind myself mnemonics are at odds with reading. Thinking of characters I recall instantly (我,来,了,你,吗,etc.) I don't ever try to recall the mnemonic, I just know them and read them like an alphabet. Right now I probably have instant recall for just a few hundred characters. I suppose the goal is to be able to do this with the 4000+ most common characters. Then there is the issue of new characters. Still don't have a method for learning these. I simply look up the meaning and pronunciation through Pleco's integrated dictionary and keep reading. And interestingly, encountering it through reading, my mind is able to shunt it into working memory for the rest of the story, save the occasional re-lookup, so surely with enough reading these characters will stick around in my long-term memory? This might not be the best way to learn new characters, but it's ruthlessly efficient. I spend exactly zero time with recording, writing, flashcard making, etc. Call me lazy, but I'm content to just keep on keepin' on, reading and listening at my own leisure.

Immersion
Ongoing Immersions:
[TV shows]: Home with Kids; 家有儿女.
[Youtube blogs]: Mandarin Corner

Quantitative Summary
Total unique pinyin word (拼音) exposure: ~2500 (stopped recording on Feb 6th 2021)
Total character (汉字) exposure: ~1600
Total time of intensive study: 693.4 hr
Average time studying per day: 2 hr 51 min

Qualitative Summary
Listening [>HSKB2]
Comprehension of Home with Kids is slowly improving. The actors speak so quickly, but I think this will serve me in the long run. Whenever I listen to graded materials it feels like they're talking at me in slow motion.

Speaking [>HSKB1]
Imagined conversations. These usually happen after long reading sessions where my mind having been seeped with Mandarin begins to bubble and overflow with the language. I've also started watching videos of other beginners speaking with natives, and I can imagine my own responses. This video was quite interesting. In it, Keith did an experiment where he watched a massive amount of Chinese TV (2000+ hours) before having his first conversation. I think having put in less than 700 hours, my comprehension is more advanced than his in the video, but I have the benefit of a multi-tracked study.

Reading [HSKB2]
Still improving rapidly and is the most enjoyable form of study.

Writing [HSKB1]
None.

Cultural
Not so much language related, but two podcasts I'd recommend for those interested in China (business, politics, culture, news) is the Sinica Podcast and ChinaTalk.

Personal Goals
Ongoing goals:
Rainbow Bridge Graded Readers: 6 / 15 / 15 higher books
Anki Spoonfed Chinese: 722 / 8017 / 8000 sentences
Read: 38000 / 10000000 /10,000,000 汉字
Study: 693 / 5000 / 5000 hours

Completed goals:
✓ HelloChinese Maincourse [14 Oct 2020 - 29 Nov 2020]
✓ HelloChinese Immersions [1 Dec 2020 - 6 March 2021]
✓ Read ~250 HSK1-3 TCB articles in pinyin [1 Dec 2020 - 25 March 2021]
✓ Heisig's Remembering the Simplified Hanzi Vol I [31 Jan 2020 - 22 April 2021]
✓ Read Rainbow Bridge Graded Readers; 20 starter books [04 May 2021 - 24 May 2021]
Last edited by Dr Mack Rettosy on Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
7 x
Mandarin goals:
Read: 2146000 / 10000000 /10,000,000 汉字
Study: 2006 / 5000 / 5000 hours

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Dr Mack Rettosy
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Re: Mack's log: Mandarin, damn the torpedoes!

Postby Dr Mack Rettosy » Sun Jun 27, 2021 6:42 pm

My free time for Mandarin continues to narrow... In the past two weeks, I managed to read three graded readers and watch a handful of sitcom episodes. But, more than ever, I enjoy Mandarin. Comprehension of Home with Kids has improved to the point where I understand something from every sentence and can follow the plot on most episodes. And just finished my favorite reader yet, 郑和's adventures in the Western Seas, stories of his commanding a fleet of 200 ships, feeding his crew, inventing games to pass the time, and fighting pirates.

Expect to hear less from me in the coming months for two big reasons:
1) I'm getting married! To a beautiful, wise, funny, loyal woman, who also happens to be my best friend.
2) A chance I will be changing jobs to work for my dream company.

Updates may be sparse, but rest assured, I will still make time for Mandarin each and every day!
12 x
Mandarin goals:
Read: 2146000 / 10000000 /10,000,000 汉字
Study: 2006 / 5000 / 5000 hours

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Re: Mack's log: Mandarin, damn the torpedoes!

Postby cjareck » Tue Jun 29, 2021 4:39 pm

Dr Mack Rettosy wrote:Expect to hear less from me in the coming months for two big reasons:
1) I'm getting married! To a beautiful, wise, funny, loyal woman, who also happens to be my best friend.

Congratulations! My wife is also my best friend. This is a fundamental issue! Since you have someone to rely on.
3 x
Please feel free to correct me in any language


Listening: 1+ (83% content, 90% linguistic)
Reading: 1 (83% content, 90% linguistic)


MSA DLI : 30 / 141ESKK : 18 / 40


Mandarin Assimil : 62 / 105

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Dr Mack Rettosy
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Re: Mack's log: Mandarin, damn the torpedoes!

Postby Dr Mack Rettosy » Tue Jul 06, 2021 10:30 pm

Very very niche news in the Mandarin learning community: a bundle package of all Mandarin Companion (MC) graded readers has been released on Pleco! Perfect timing for a release, because I'm currently making the transition from Rainbow Bridge's level 2 to level 3 readers (RGB), and the difficulty gap is turning out to be quite large. So I'm going to read through the MC graders (levels 0-2) then get back to RGB.

My initial impression of MC? Eh, it's different. The stories are either Western adaptions or made up. I find them less compelling compared to RGB's cultural and historical topics. I'm also doubtful of the authenticity by which Mandarin is being used. Something about it feels off to me, the grammar is slightly different? Or maybe words are repeated too often? Or it is too simple? But I am also not sure I trust my intuition of the language yet, because my exposure to native material has been so limited. I think I need to read a few more MC books before I say more.

But one more observation is how quick MC books are to read. I finished a 5700 character book in 90 minutes, that's 63 cpm! Feels like I'm flying compared to reading a RGB at 20 cpm. MC uses much less unique characters than RGB. In fact, now that I think of it, I haven't encountered a single new character in all three of the breakthrough book I've read. That's kind of neat. So despite the content differences, MC appears to be much better suited for beginner learners, which is consistent with these findings (figure 7).
7 x
Mandarin goals:
Read: 2146000 / 10000000 /10,000,000 汉字
Study: 2006 / 5000 / 5000 hours

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Re: Mack's log: Mandarin, damn the torpedoes!

Postby rdearman » Wed Jul 07, 2021 8:13 am

I have been following your journey with interest over the last 7 months, and your focused driven method of learning is amazing, and it obviously works. Better than my lackadaisical, "I'll get there eventually" method. :)

I don't think you've ever said what your motivation is for learning Mandarin?
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Dr Mack Rettosy
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Re: Mack's log: Mandarin, damn the torpedoes!

Postby Dr Mack Rettosy » Mon Jul 12, 2021 6:07 pm

cjareck wrote:
Dr Mack Rettosy wrote:Expect to hear less from me in the coming months for two big reasons:
1) I'm getting married! To a beautiful, wise, funny, loyal woman, who also happens to be my best friend.

Congratulations! My wife is also my best friend. This is a fundamental issue! Since you have someone to rely on.


Thank you!

rdearman wrote:I have been following your journey with interest over the last 7 months, and your focused driven method of learning is amazing, and it obviously works. Better than my lackadaisical, "I'll get there eventually" method. :)

I don't think you've ever said what your motivation is for learning Mandarin?


I've always enjoyed following 'journeys'. Whether it's language learning, sport training, video games, traveling, financial planning, etc., and my goal with this log has been to give readers a vicarious experience of someone tackling a really tough L2. So I'm happy someone finds my log of interest, 谢谢!

I suppose different methods at different times work differently for different people, if you know what I mean. For me (at my current stage of life and not having ever learned a language and choosing a difficult L2), I feel that I must be focused. Likewise, having followed your log, you also seem to have found the approach that works for you.

I think my motivation has changed over time. How I started is a bit of a blur, but I remember feeling compelled to learn, as if I had no choice over the matter and Mandarin had chosen me. At that time I had some vague notion that Mandarin might give me opportunities for travel, friendship, and career growth. But my motivation has since evolved to be more permanent and complex, like a web of connections across my life that would be difficult to disentangle from. Various strands of that web in no particular order: it has helped develop relationships with my Chinese co-workers. It's connected me with different online communities (this forum, reddit, refold, youtubers). It's required new technologies to be used in practical ways. It's expanded my world view to Eastern ways of thinking. It's been a means to experience novel cognitive changes that comes with language acquisition. It's a challenge I relish on par with other really difficult things I've done (PhD, long distance sporting events). And finally it's a hobby that I can pour work into, track in satisfying ways, and see measured improvement.
Last edited by Dr Mack Rettosy on Tue Jul 20, 2021 8:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
12 x
Mandarin goals:
Read: 2146000 / 10000000 /10,000,000 汉字
Study: 2006 / 5000 / 5000 hours

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Re: Mack's log: Mandarin, damn the torpedoes!

Postby Lawyer&Mom » Mon Jul 12, 2021 7:09 pm

Language learning definitely reminds me of marathon training or bar exam prep. I enjoy a set challenge and a feeling of measurable accomplishment. And since I really don’t need anymore degrees, language learning it is!
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Dr Mack Rettosy
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Re: Mack's log: Mandarin, damn the torpedoes!

Postby Dr Mack Rettosy » Wed Jul 14, 2021 7:54 pm

Lawyer&Mom wrote:Language learning definitely reminds me of marathon training or bar exam prep. I enjoy a set challenge and a feeling of measurable accomplishment. And since I really don’t need anymore degrees, language learning it is!


Lol, well said! Not to mention, I don't think I could stomach another degree!
1 x
Mandarin goals:
Read: 2146000 / 10000000 /10,000,000 汉字
Study: 2006 / 5000 / 5000 hours

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Dr Mack Rettosy
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Oct 14th 2020 – July 21st 2021: Nine Month Update

Postby Dr Mack Rettosy » Wed Jul 21, 2021 1:05 pm

Oct 14th 2020 – July 21st 2021: Nine Month Update

Decided not to do the nine month update in the "official format". It's a little restrictive and don't have too much time to write. Also, my progress has slowed significantly and there is just less to update.

Caught up on my spoonfed deck and have been chipping away at it with 5 new cards a day.

It's strange, listening to native material almost feels more comprehensible than material designed for learning. I think I'm at a point where the sound of a teacher (slowly pronouncing beginner vocabulary) just doesn't hold my attention. I've found podcasts with two or more people talking are becoming more comprehensible and enjoyable, so for the time being I'll keep listening to those. Definitely slowed down on the TV sitcoms, only watching a couple episodes a week.

Reading is going well, even though I'm only getting in 30 minutes a day I still notice improvements. The Mandarin Companion breakthrough readers were a bit boring, but I'm enjoying the level 1 books. Notice the huge jump in reading speed between Rainbow Bridge readers (blue) and Mandarin Companion readers (orange).

reading speed at nine months.png


Here is the current snapshot of my progress on various goals. Almost hit 100,000 characters read and broke 750 hours of study.
Mandarin goals:
Rainbow Bridge Graded Readers: 9 / 15 / 15 higher books
Mandarin Companion Readers: 7 / 17 / 17 books
Anki Spoonfed Chinese: 790 / 8017 / 8000 sentences
Read: 97000 / 10000000 /10,000,000 汉字
Study: 750 / 5000 / 5000 hours

Completed goals:
✓ HelloChinese Maincourse [14 Oct 2020 - 29 Nov 2020]
✓ HelloChinese Immersions [1 Dec 2020 - 6 March 2021]
✓ Read ~250 HSK1-3 TCB articles in pinyin [1 Dec 2020 - 25 March 2021]
✓ Heisig's Remembering the Simplified Hanzi Vol I [31 Jan 2020 - 22 April 2021]
✓ Read Rainbow Bridge Graded Readers; 20 starter books [04 May 2021 - 24 May 2021]

Finally, I accepted a job offer at a new company. I'll be starting some time in November, and until then I'm going to be very busy publishing a few papers in my current position. The new position is definitely a step up, I'll have more compensation but also more responsibility... But the Mandarin won't stop!
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Last edited by Dr Mack Rettosy on Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
10 x
Mandarin goals:
Read: 2146000 / 10000000 /10,000,000 汉字
Study: 2006 / 5000 / 5000 hours

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Dr Mack Rettosy
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Re: Mack's log: Mandarin, damn the torpedoes!

Postby Dr Mack Rettosy » Fri Jul 23, 2021 5:08 pm

I think Refold's Levels of Comprehension is a decent system for tracking comprehension progress. Briefly, there are seven levels:

Level 0 - Nothing
Level 1 - Something
Level 2 - Bits and Pieces
Level 3 - Gist
Level 4 - Story
Level 5 - Comfortable
Level 6 - Automatic

I think I'm floating somewhere between Level 2 and 3, depending on the content and my state of mind. With TV shows I float around 3, but with podcasts even though I recognize many words I'm usually missing some key vocabulary and the gist escapes me.
7 x
Mandarin goals:
Read: 2146000 / 10000000 /10,000,000 汉字
Study: 2006 / 5000 / 5000 hours


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