Back to the roots and water them with coffee

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Bilingual_monoglot
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Languages: English (n) Tamil (n-heritage) French Esperanto (can talk about language policy/lepak, and nothing else) Hindi (bumbling tourist) Malay (basic conversations) Chinese (introductions and ordering food)
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Re: Back to the roots and water them with coffee

Postby Bilingual_monoglot » Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:52 am

If it's of any consolation to you, you're issues of being an eternal beginner in German are similar to mine in Chinese, even though I actually like Chinese (at least a little), and I live in a nominally Chinese speaking country.

And good for you to finally find work that you like. Hopefully, you can find yourself in a situation where your Spanish is more useful than your German, given that you actually enjoy Spanish.
3 x

Cavesa
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Re: Back to the roots and water them with coffee

Postby Cavesa » Mon Apr 26, 2021 10:00 am

Bilingual_monoglot wrote:If it's of any consolation to you, you're issues of being an eternal beginner in German are similar to mine in Chinese, even though I actually like Chinese (at least a little), and I live in a nominally Chinese speaking country.

And good for you to finally find work that you like. Hopefully, you can find yourself in a situation where your Spanish is more useful than your German, given that you actually enjoy Spanish.


It is! Thank you! Sometimes, things just don't progress as expected.

I've had a huge breakthrough in German actually. I am capable of following the plot of a dubbed tv series. I piced something not too hard looking, the One (it should be some kind of scifi about a match making app). And I can follow it. I keep the Spanish subtitles for the most parts, but try hard to not read them first. Not sure how long it will go. I should switch to the German ones, I know. I hope to get the courage in a few episodes.

It's a miracle! I still don't love German, true, but I might get it to the "relationship to tools" status that I've got with English.

What made this miracle happen:
-some inconstant but still not that tiny use of Speakly and similar sources
-half the Grammatik Aktiv
-a few lessons of Daf kompakt
-approximately half of Speechling
Or I don't know. There wasn't much else going on, the Grammatik Aktiv was probably the most consistent German learning effort in the last year.

In the rest of my languages, I keep doing some tv series watching, it really reactivates my knowledge nicely. My main SRS, which is Speakly, is having some unexpected technical problems. Described in a thread by Araminta. It is really discouraging, because it is much more a battle against the website, than really focus on learning. I hope they fix it soon, as promissed.

My stay in Belgium is driving me crazy in some ways. I have bureaucratic problems, because a clerk gave me wrong information several months ago. He gave the same piece of information to a friend, so I am sure I understood him right. But his colleagues don't agree. And the reglementations I found online are very unclear exactly about this, about the exact prolongation possibility of deadlines, and what do various situations happening in the process really mean for me. The clerks need to be asked five times about the same thing, before they really answer, it is exhausting. I desperately need the EU to become federation, because this is horrible. In another part of the paperwork, I have to renew a paper (just a new date), but if it takes the other side more than a few weeks, a different paper will expire.

Who knows, how this ends. It would be so much easier, if I was not a doctor. But as I have just a dumb MD that cost me far too much, while I am not qualified for anything objectively easier to do and achieve.
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Araminta
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Re: Back to the roots and water them with coffee

Postby Araminta » Mon Apr 26, 2021 1:04 pm

I'm sorry to hear about the bureaucratic problems in Belgium. How frustrating! I hope they get everything ironed out soon for you.
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Cavesa
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Re: Back to the roots and water them with coffee

Postby Cavesa » Mon Apr 26, 2021 2:36 pm

Araminta wrote:I'm sorry to hear about the bureaucratic problems in Belgium. How frustrating! I hope they get everything ironed out soon for you.


Thanks. I am not sure the Belgian bureaucrats even know the word "soon" in any language. :-D

A friend of mine (also an immigrant) and I have agreed there is a huge cultural difference between France and Belgium. The state bureaucratic machine is horrible in both. But in France, a large part of the employees take their role seriously, and are basically your knight in a shining armor, ready to slay paper dragons and overcome deadline mountains for you, to defend you and find a solution. A lot of the belgian ones will instead confuse you about the dragon's whereabouts, turn your map upside down, lose your horse, and ask why you haven't taken a totally different path (which they hadn't mentioned before) instead. They are really a lot like the czechs.

I am not sure what kind of a culture shock I'm having.

Btw sometimes the bad experiences make the best funny stories and ice breakers. I had been told the electricity was standard and by the book. The circuit breaker being not only too weak but also installed upside down says otherwise. So, I get to visit our ugly cellar more than I'd like. Yesterday, I met my neighbour in the cellar, and we had a nice conversation that started by her question "are you content with the apparment?" and me listing some of the major flaws, and then we shared some gossip and learnt a bit about each other. We should have a coffee together soon, she seems like a nice lady and lives on the same floor. New contacts are a rare treasure in the coroworld.
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Ogrim
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Re: Back to the roots and water them with coffee

Postby Ogrim » Tue Apr 27, 2021 5:02 pm

I see Belgian bureaucracy hasn't changed much since I lived there back in the 1990s! I remember buying a second-hand car; getting it registered in my name and receiving the number plates was a Kafkaesque experience I still can remember. By the way, do they have the local police coming round to check you actually live where you say you live? They used to do that back then, I found that both amusing and irritating at the same time.

As for bureaucracy in France, I agree. It is a maze, but you always find your way through it in the end, often with help from the officials.
6 x
Ich grolle nicht

Cavesa
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Re: Back to the roots and water them with coffee

Postby Cavesa » Tue Apr 27, 2021 8:18 pm

Thanks, Ogrim. It helps, to know it is not just my impression.

Ogrim wrote:By the way, do they have the local police coming round to check you actually live where you say you live? They used to do that back then, I found that both amusing and irritating at the same time.


Yes, of course they do. To check I exist, that I am at the address, and to remind me to recycle. The police has time for this, cute. But last week, it took them 30 min to get from their station to a shooter on the street just around the corner from them.
........
Btw got a little bit of Italian and Spanish speaking practice today. A colleague knows I speak some Italian. But he heard a lot of Spanish in my Italian :-D (yeah, I need to work on it). He had spent half a year in Spain. We continued in Spanish. Fun!

But I am really ashamed of how weak my active skills in these languages are. Spanish is more or less ok, but far from the freedom I experience in French. Italian is a poor and neglected hybrid.
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Cavesa
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Re: Back to the roots and water them with coffee

Postby Cavesa » Wed Apr 28, 2021 2:57 pm

Kanewai has shared a wonderful study time calculator link. https://autolingual.com/study-time-calc ... motivation

Yes, we need to take it with a grain of salt. But it still helps visualise the effect of some of the common variables. I've put in my languages and goals, and found out the Motivation variable changes the estimate by years!!! :-D

And it is nice to see the confirmation, that the people spreading the "a few minutes a day are better than a few hours once a week" attitude are wrong, the few minutes will lead to the results in decades at the very best :-D

I've decided to give it a try, because I find it motivating. Where is the model likely to be imprecise for me:
-I am not an English native, so I find the languages differently difficult
-I also do a lot of extensive reading and listening, not sure how it counts and compares with the rest
-My entry level estimates are imprecise, because I have huge differences between the individual skills, especially in Italian (where I'd grade my listening comprehension C1 but my speaking A2 at best. So, I went for A2).
-It doesn't (and cannot) take into account the different value of various activities. A person playing with Duolingo for five years simply won't get to a high level.

I put in a starting date the 5.5.2021. For reasons, no need to expand on it. Also, I will never have more time than now (after this date), it will only get worse for langauges, so stuff I manage to complete in the next year or two will pay of later on.

-3-5 study blocks per week and language are realistic. Not sure whether I decide to focus more on some languages at first than others, but I'll try to not drop stuff, unless I really have to. If I count also extensive reading and listening, I'm merging language learning with "unproductive" time too, I cannot work 24/7 anyways. I'll strive for a total of 14 study blocks per week total, 2 languages a day.

-I have played a bit with the optimal options mentioned by the authors, study blocks of 45min, 1h, 1.5 hour. I definitely can't aim for more. But I am more likely to give up, rather than crawl forward by 15 min sessions :-D For the purposes of this experiment, I'll probably count with 1h as the golden standard.

-I am extremely curious, how different will my progress be from the planned one.

So, when should I reach what level in each of my languages:

SPANISH: starting level B2 (even though the Italki exam claimed I was C1, with weaker oral skills at B2). Goal: solid C1
motivation: high. 3-5 study blocks per week, 1.5 hour
ETA: 5m 26d (21.10.21)

ITALIAN: starting level A2 (already commented on the huge disparity). Goal C1, motivation:high. 3-5 study blocks. 45min
C1 2Y 5M 29D (24.9.23), B2 1Y 6M 12D (6.11.22), B1 8M 24D (17.1.22)

GERMAN: starting at A1, goal B2, motivation moderate, 3-5 study blocks, 45 min
B2 3y 16m 18d (11.11.24), B1 2y13d (11.5.23) ,A2 8m 8d (1.1.22)
This one is rather sad but seems very realistic. It still a much better result, thatn what standard language classes aim for though!

HEBREW: starting at 0, goal B2,motivation moderate, 45 min blocks
A1 in 7m 25d (19.12.21), A2 1y 5m 23d (18.10.22), B1 3y 1m 17d (13.6.24), B2 4y 11m 24d (16.4.26)

So, it is a nice, even though approximate, idea of what is possible. If I stick to the plan, I should be able to achieve these partial goals by the end of this year: Spanish C1, Italian overall B1 (I guess I will be at least a a bit faster than expected), German A2 (better than complete stagnation), Hebrew A1 (awesome, sounds fun!)
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Cavesa
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Re: Back to the roots and water them with coffee

Postby Cavesa » Thu Apr 29, 2021 2:25 pm

Anyone else watching Youtube videos faster? I guess so (that's why the settings are there). It's genious! Surely not for music (but who knows, might be a funny social afternoon sometime), but for non fiction videos. It feels sort of cool to understand a language not only at the native speed, but also at 1.25 or 1.5 of it :-D :-D :-D

My Italian listening progresses. You know, I'm a procrastinator. I am waiting for new episodes of Lucifer (I like the Italian voices much better than the originals). I've started a new dubbing, Shadow and Bone. Awesome, the dubbing is good (as usual), the subtitles are totally different (that's sort of normal. But I think I've even found a mistake!), the series is captivating. And at some points more challenging for comprehension than for example Lucifer. But I need to finally dive into something originally in Italian. I've seen a trailer to Zero, so I'll tell you, when I'll have started it.
.......
Btw I have two tips for the Czech learners. Some stuff I've discovered rather recently (got to see a lot of stuff from the last five years or so). Finally, my country is moving to a phase of being at the same time far enough from the communism and very early post communism to consider it history, worth reflection in both art and entertainment, but at the same time still having a lot of people with the first hand experience, who can pass it on. Especially the image in the entertainment is extremely important, that's where you get to inform the most people very naturally, and eventually motivate them to dig deeper.

1.tv series Svět pod hlavou. A policemen in an unpleasant moral situation gets hurt in an accident, and while in coma sort of travels in time, to the year 1982 in which he was born. He gets to experience the youth of his parents and understand what kind of a world it was, what kind of behaviour was normal, what kinds of moral choices normal average people faced all the time, what kind of social traps could have cost you far too much. It is partially a comedy (that's the main difference compared to the real propaganda oriented police series of those times), and also a solid police series, and it includes tons of very real references. It is also a good story about understanding each other and forgiving. An excellent selection of actors btw. And it really made me think of the stuff my parents and grandparents told me about, even though often less understandably. It also shows how the same monsters from one era easily adapted to a new one. I'd say a B1 or B2 learner should be mostly comfortable with the series.

2.Movies and tv series about the 90's. They tend to be inspired by real cases, real criminals, who were usually never really punished in the real world. All of those stories are things, that are still heavily affecting the Czech Republic today, some have international ties too. And they tend to be well done. Expozitura is an excellent thriller tv series, Příběh kmotra is a good movie, but there are more examples. All of these might be a bit more colloquial overall, but still good. And if you want purely fiction, Cirkus Bukowski and Rapl are excellent examples. I'd say most of these are B2ish or C1ish.
10 x

Cavesa
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Re: Back to the roots and water them with coffee

Postby Cavesa » Mon May 03, 2021 12:31 pm

I signed up for the 6wc. I know, I know, I failed the last dozen or so. But this time, it is different. I am in with Italian, which I love (it is such a pleasure!), I objectively have some time, and I need some fun.

My entry level: passive C1, active A2, or perhaps rather active hybrid. I am very good at using rather bad skills.

The goals: to improve my grammar, vocabulary, and pronunciation, in order to chase Spanish our of my Italian. I am right now not hunting any particular level overall. It's about the "small" details, that need to be "relearnt". Tons of them.

What am I using, and what for:

-Speechling: to help my pronunciation. I am overall not bad, I get approximately 95% of recordings right the first time. But there are mistakes in the rest, and I need to drill this, to get much better in the real life and speed. I think the tutor is not too lenient (I suspected her a bit at first, as I was getting so good feedback), she points out the doppio consonants sometimes (but I am mostly ok with them), with the intonation (really, the Italian questions are different from the French or Spanish intonation. I've found a paper on that, might read it), and I am trying to be as good as possible with the stress placement (that's one of the keys to getting rid of the hybrid, but my "hybrid" is just as much about vocab and grammar as the pronunciation, if not more).

-Speakly: to get active recall and typing practice for my vocab and grammar. It is excellent overall, even though I really hope they'll upgrade the audio, and they might add the grammar notes, and add the gender or formal hints systematically. But overall, I still think it is the best tool for my needs out of all the similar ones I've tried. Btw Speakly is working on implementing a new language. No idea what language.

-tv series and books: yes, valid, need to move with the SC too. However, they should not take more time than the intensive study methods, and the tv series need to be originals. For now, I am watching Cero and it is great, it is clearly a step up from the dubbings (but don't hate on dubbings, I've recently watched Lucifer, and I almost hear the characters all the time, when I do the same sentences in Speechling or Speakly!). For books, I won't reinvent the wheel. I've read a few originals already, but for now I'll content myself with the HP.

-textbook: important. I think I'll pay for the digital version of Nuovissimo Progetto Italiano, and might supplement with the onlineitalianclub. But in any case, I need to first move forward in the previous stuff, I don't want to just throw out money. I am considering using Assimil as a supplement. Not sure.

Btw could someone explain to the two people above me on the highscores, that the use of Time Turners, Tardis, or any other kind of time travelling device is against the fair play spirit of the 6WC? :-D :-D :-D

now seriously: you're great guys! Just the kind of motivation I need! And the same is true about the reast of the leaderboard. It looks like a very good round of the 6WC.
.............
And btw, I have an interview tomorrow. Any good thoughts, prayers, or encouragement would be great. I'm scared.
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Carmody
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Re: Back to the roots and water them with coffee

Postby Carmody » Mon May 03, 2021 2:52 pm

All the very best. They should be scared.........they will be lucky if you accept them and they get you. Go for it....
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