Back to the roots and water them with coffee

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DaveAgain
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Re: Back to the roots and water them with coffee

Postby DaveAgain » Sat Jul 17, 2021 2:54 pm

Cavesa wrote:And I haven't found samples of the writing and speaking part (they appear not obligatory for the Swiss authorities, but it looks like the hospitals want that. It's hard to deduce anything, when the lady on the main info line doesn't really know.)
The France-Education-International.fr website seems to offer some

https://www.france-education-internatio ... ?langue=fr
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Xenops
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Re: Back to the roots and water them with coffee

Postby Xenops » Sat Jul 17, 2021 3:00 pm

I'm sorry that you've had such difficulties with Belgium and German. :( Thank you for sharing your struggles with us, it is very helpful to those of us that are considering moving abroad, to have an idea of what to expect. It appears that your German is like my Spanish: we have such negative experiences, it prevents us from enjoying the respective languages and cultures.

I guess it makes sense that the DALF score would expire after some years, but it's still really annoying. I do think you would find the new test much easier than German though, since you maintained your French. I think you can also pick up Italian easily again too.

Congratulations on your engagement. :D Having a life-partner would certainly be comforting and helpful. I must admit I'm jealous, as I have yet to find anyone willing to move overseas with me.

I wish you best, and I'll pray for you.
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Cavesa
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Re: Back to the roots and water them with coffee

Postby Cavesa » Sat Jul 17, 2021 3:40 pm

DaveAgain wrote:https://www.france-education-international.fr/test/exemples-epreuves-tcf?langue=fr


Thank you! There are so many websites more or less about TCF, that I didn't find this one!

Xenops wrote:I'm sorry that you've had such difficulties with Belgium and German. :( Thank you for sharing your struggles with us, it is very helpful to those of us that are considering moving abroad, to have an idea of what to expect. It appears that your German is like my Spanish: we have such negative experiences, it prevents us from enjoying the respective languages and cultures.

I guess it makes sense that the DALF score would expire after some years, but it's still really annoying. I do think you would find the new test much easier than German though, since you maintained your French. I think you can also pick up Italian easily again too.

Congratulations on your engagement. :D Having a life-partner would certainly be comforting and helpful. I must admit I'm jealous, as I have yet to find anyone willing to move overseas with me.

I wish you best, and I'll pray for you.


Thanks for your kindness, I hope my struggles will help you avoid some of yours. It would make this log much more valuable than just a rant collection :-D

Yes, the individual experiences and attitude count much more than "objective" difficulty of a language imho. That's why I find all the "what language is the most important/useful/easy one" to be a problematic. Because even if we settled on any "objective" answer, it would still be worthless for the individual learners. At this point, I guess I'd struggle less with Klingon than with German.

The DALF hasn't expired, that's the thing. It is officially valid for life. While we may or may not agree whether it is good (becuase yes, there are people who take their exam and then don't touch the language for decades), it is the official truth. So, not having my DALF officially recognized because it is two months too old for some arbitrary rule countering the official validity, that's a bitter feeling.

He is wonderful. We still have to get to the actual wedding though, I am simply too much of a worrier and "don't praise the day before the night" person. :-D But I am happy that he has decided for this step. Pragmatically speaking, being married will also help a lot with various paperwork. I think you'll find someone overseas, after moving. Perhaps your heart dragging you to Europe also drags you towards someone perfectly compatible. :-)
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Carmody
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Re: Back to the roots and water them with coffee

Postby Carmody » Sat Jul 17, 2021 4:07 pm

Cavesa,

Thank you so much for your sharing of your journey.

You are the most indefatigable, courageous, and honest person that I have ever heard of. I also think you are brilliant, but that is already obvious.

Also obvious is that you have truly become a role model for those of us who need to learn to truly and honestly persevere towards our goals and to not give up.

Thank you.
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Re: Back to the roots and water them with coffee

Postby tiia » Sat Jul 17, 2021 4:38 pm

Cavesa wrote:Yes, the individual experiences and attitude count much more than "objective" difficulty of a language imho. That's why I find all the "what language is the most important/useful/easy one" to be a problematic. Because even if we settled on any "objective" answer, it would still be worthless for the individual learners. At this point, I guess I'd struggle less with Klingon than with German.


It sounds weird but: congrats to your decision to abandon German. It was truely giving you a hard time.

Maybe it's not forever, maybe it is. In a situation with so much pressure as yours, it's not really a surprise, that you started to hate it.

It's so true that attitude and motivation are much more important than the supposed easiness of a language. I mean ok, I get that when you have equal motivation for different languages, the more similar one will most likely be much easier. But motivation towards different languages is simply not equal most of the times.

I mean I needed 6 years to find motivation to start Spanish again from scratch. I had not even disliked it as such, I just had no real motivation, maybe not the perfect circumstances. But I think the main issue was my motivation or better the lack of it.
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Re: Back to the roots and water them with coffee

Postby Lawyer&Mom » Sat Jul 17, 2021 7:01 pm

Perhaps someday when you are happily settled into your life in Switzerland, German will open itself up to you. I know that an emotional block makes language learning impossible. And languages are so very susceptible to emotional blocks!

Best of luck with your upcoming French exam. I’m sure you will do great. Remember you already aced French where it mattered, in the trenches with your patients. You’ve got this.
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Re: Back to the roots and water them with coffee

Postby Cavesa » Mon Jul 19, 2021 2:41 pm

Thank you all for your kindness! It's extremely encouraging to read such kind messages, especially as I sometimes feel like everything except couragous or indefatigable (thanks for a new word btw!).

It should also be noted that I couldn't do all this alone. Various kinds of support are extremely important. Some are in the expected places (my dad is awesome), some are totally surprising. Don't be afraid to reach out to people, when you need for example clear and practical information, many people (even total strangers, or old acquitances) will try to help, just like they had been helped before. Just be careful about some false support (most typically official structures supposed to help you make the plans come true, but in reality trying to fit you into some role the society needs at the expense of your own well being and happiness).

Yes, the decision to abandon German has been a very good one, I feel relieved and refreshed :-D Perhaps it is not an adieu, I might succeed one day, if I find a different path towards German.

Honestly, I am surprised the blocks and bad feelings about Spanish, which some of you mention, aren't much more common. :-D Given the fact it is such a common language to learn, and also such a common language to be forced upon people in schools in many countries, I'd expect a much stronger backlash in the learner population. The stronger you push people, and the more people you push, the more likely to appear is the opposite of your desired goal.

The TCF will be interesting. I mean, the obligatory parts will be boring. Sure, some stuff may not be easy, but still boring. The active skills will be different. I can already see two challenges:
-the writing word limit. When I see some of the sample topics, fitting into the rather tiny limits will be hard. I wish I could find not only samples of the assignments, but also sample solutions with feedback. But that's hard to find for any exam
-speaking: I really need to prepare a nice 3 minute presentation of myself, without inappropriate or weird stuff, showing off the language skills, and not feeling nervous like during the concours. The rest will go well, it is supposed to be about the immediate reactions, I'm good at that. But the first part is prepared by everybody, I suppose.
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Re: Back to the roots and water them with coffee

Postby Lawyer&Mom » Mon Jul 19, 2021 2:55 pm

From an American perspective, yes Spanish is commonly taught, and there are plenty of people taking Spanish who would rather not study a foreign language at all, but there is very little feeling that Spanish is essential. Having Spanish will help you, especially in teaching or medicine, but the vast majority of Americans don’t need Spanish. So failing to do well in Spanish isn’t a big deal, and lots of people fail to do well in Spanish, and just shrug it off. If anything French is seen as more difficult and potentially more traumatic for high schoolers.
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Re: Back to the roots and water them with coffee

Postby lowsocks » Mon Jul 19, 2021 3:30 pm

Congratulations on your engagement!

But I have to ask: In which language do you plan to hold the wedding ceremony? ;)
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Re: Back to the roots and water them with coffee

Postby rdearman » Mon Jul 19, 2021 4:50 pm

lowsocks wrote:Congratulations on your engagement!

But I have to ask: In which language do you plan to hold the wedding ceremony? ;)

Klingon, obviously.
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