AroAro's log DE, RO, IT, FR, EN

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AroAro
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AroAro's log DE, RO, IT, FR, EN

Postby AroAro » Wed Sep 02, 2020 10:31 am

Hello Everyone,

Here's my log where I'm going to share my learning progress, methods and resources I use. If you happen to notice grammar/vocab errors in my logs, please feel free to correct me.
Also, if you learn Polish and need some help (correction, explanation, short translation), just let me know and I'll try to help you.

To give you a general idea of who I am - I'm a native Polish speaker, in his mid 30, residing in Cracow and holding a master's degree in French. I am interested in linguistics (and especially such topics as: genesis and evolution of languages/human speech, classification of languages, uncommon features of less widely studies languages). I became seriously interested in learning languages only some 5 years ago when I discovered online community of language enthusiasts/polyglots and my curiosity propelled when I stumbled upon this forum (and Hltal of course). I also read quite a lot of modern literature in English, French and Polish.

I'm going to start with an overview of languages that I speak, that I would like to learn in the future or that I dabbled in in the past.

ENGLISH - let's start with English, as this is the first language I was acquainted with and it was part of my curriculum ever since the primary school. And in the primary school I had this nasty teacher who told me I would never be able to learn English in my life, so you can imagine that my motivation to learn this language quickly vanished and I even developed a feeling of disgust towards English. Then, in high school, I realized I need to know English to get access to tons of information available in Internet that will never be translated for me into Polish. It's also a must if you want to get a good job. That's how I decided to finally learn English - by myself, because the level of English lessons provided in my high school was disastrous to say the least. I grabbed "English Grammar in Use" and went through it 4 or 5 times. It was really hard as I was confronted with lots of unknown words and grammar structures but in the end the effort paid off when English texts started to make sense to me and I even became one of the best students in class. I complemented my study with other resources of course, mainly the course books published by Wiedza Powszechna (let's say it's a Polish equivalent to Assimil). I also had an easy access to books in English and I felt in love with modern British literature. As of now, my English is in maintenance phase which means that I consume content in this language, though probably refreshing some grammar points would be a good idea.
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AroAro
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Posts: 24
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Re: AroAro's log DE, RO, IT, FR, EN

Postby AroAro » Sun Sep 06, 2020 7:38 pm

FRENCH - alors, ça fait déjà environ 20 que j'apprends le français. J'ai eu mon premier contact avec cette langue au lycée où j'avais un merveilleux professeur qui exigeait beaucoup de ses élèves mais en même temps il savait enseigner la langue, ce qui n'est toujours pas le cas (j'ai vu ça trop souvent pendant les cours d'anglais). En Terminale, je ne savais franchement pas ce que je voulais faire dans la vie (impossible de le savoir à l'âge de 19 ans !) et finalement je me suis inscrit à une faculté d'études romanes. A vrai dire, je voulais étudier plutôt les langues slaves qui me fascinent jusqu'aujourd'hui - bulgare ou slovaque - mais les débouchés professionnels après de telles études sont assez limités, donc je me suis lancé dans l'étude du français à l'université.
En ce qui concerne les langues slaves, je vais commencer à les apprendre l'année prochaine si tout va bien, quant au français - je l'utilise au quotidien dans ma vie professionnelle mais je dois avouer que j'ai perdu ma passion pour cette langue en quelque sorte. Difficile de dire pourquoi - d'un côté c'est la langue que je connais le mieux et dans laquelle il m'est le plus facile de m'exprimer. De l'autre côté, j'ai en fait perdu le contact avec la France, la culture et les gens, tous les liens que je gardais se sont évaporés au fil des années. Peut-être si on connaît une langue à un bon niveau, elle cesse de nous intéresser et il faut chercher de nouveaux défis ailleurs ? Heureusement qu'il y a tant de langues à découvrir !
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Iversen
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Ahem, not yet: Norwegian, Afrikaans, Platt, Scots, Russian, Serbian, Bulgarian, Albanian, Greek, Latin, Irish, Indonesian and a few more...
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Re: AroAro's log DE, RO, IT, FR, EN

Postby Iversen » Sun Sep 06, 2020 11:05 pm

Bienvenu au forum AroAro. Moi aussi, j'ai étudié le français, mais sans trouver du travail relié à mes études - du moins pas sur le niveau universitaire, et c'était le seul qui m'interessait. Ce qui a sauvé mon français, c'était mes voyages, et maintenant que j'ai encore une fois commencé à étudier une foule de langues étrangères je peux constater que le savoir que j'ai obtenu durant mes études (de phonologie, grammaire, stylistique...) m'aide beaucoup encore aujourd'hui, même quand j'emploie la plupart de mon à étudier d'autres languages que le français.

Et je n'ai pas l'impression que l'intéret d'une langue et une culture disparait aussitôt qu'on l'a appris à un certain niveau. Ce qui se passe est qu'on cesse d'employer les même méthods: le pourcentage d'activités intensives tend à baisser, tandis que le pourcentage des activités extensives s'accroît. Pour moi, ce que je fais avec mon français aujourd'hui - sauf m'amuser - c'est surtout de travailler sur mon vocabulaire, puisque cela a un effet immédiat sur mon abilité de penser fluemment et sans pauses ou périphrases superflues en français. Et ce travail ne cesse jamais...

...

Besides you have learnt to study by yourself, and that may be the most important lesson of them all.
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AroAro
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Re: AroAro's log DE, RO, IT, FR, EN

Postby AroAro » Mon Sep 07, 2020 10:51 am

Bonjour Iversen, merci pour ta contribution à mon log ! Oui, tu as tout à fait raison, les études linguistiques apportent du savoir-faire nécessaire dans l'apprentissage des langues ultérieur. Pour raviver un peu mon intérêt pour le français, je redécouvre la littérature moderne et j'ai découvert quelques auteurs assez prometteurs. Je suis abonné aussi à quelques chaînes YT pour ne pas perdre le contact avec le langage parlé et je lis les magazines français pour être courant et enrichir mon vocabulaire. Comme tu dis, l'apprentissage d'une langue ne cesse jamais - j'ai déjà commis cette erreur avec mon italien que j'ai dû ranimer après une longue pause. Maintenant je sais qu'il faut travailler sans cesse même sur les langues qu'on parle bien et pour lesquelles on ne fait plus forcément d'exercices de grammaire.
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AroAro
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Re: AroAro's log DE, RO, IT, FR, EN

Postby AroAro » Fri Sep 11, 2020 1:11 pm

Progress update

Italian - stasettimana, ho visto alcuni video del canale "Nova Lectio" su YT che trattavano della vita in Unione Sovietica. Poi, ho letto un articolo dell'Espresso su Beppe Grillo e come lui chambia la politica italiana

parole interessanti - puntellare, sopralluogo

French - en fait, j'ai tavaillé sur mon français la semaine dernière - quelques vidéos sur YT du Poisson Fécond (je conseille la vidéo sur Lavrenti Beria) et deux articles de Le Point. J'ai trois langues en mode maintenance, donc chaque semaine c'est une autre langue que j'essaie de 'maintenir'

mots à retenir - entériner - je suis sûr d'avoir déjà rencontré ce mot mais son sens m'a échappé pendant la lecture

Romanian - am citit pana la sfarsit "Assimil Guide de conversation", era o ocazie buna sa-mi amintesc in acelasi timp niste fraze in franceza. Acum, invet cuvinte noi din acet ghid dar nu toate pentru ca sunt sigur ca nu voi tine minte niciodata de numele de pesti de pilda, si in general cuvinte cu legatura cu mancarea nu ma intereseaza deloc. Dealtfel, trebuie sa instalez o tastatura cu litere romanesti pe computerul meu.

German - diese Woche habe ich nichts Wichtiges gemacht um mein Deutsch zu verbessern. Also, ich habe ein illustriertes Worterbuch geblattert und mich einige Videos auf YT geschaut, vor allem aus dem Kanal "MrWissen2Go". Und ja, ich habe fur 5-6 Stunden Radio gehort (NDR Info). Ich kann sagen, dass ich mit Deutsch mein Ziel erreicht, das heisst ich kann in den meisten Fallen leicht viel verstehen, was ich lese und hore, aber es fallt mir sehr schwer etwas zu sagen oder schreiben. Ich muss unbedingt darauf arbeiten, vielleicht Ubersetzungen machen.

Hebrew - ok, I honestly didn't see it coming but here it is. I mean I tried to learn Hebrew 6-7 years ago because I love the sound of the language and it would be great to learn a language from outside Indoeuropean family. I learned quickly the alphabet (even though I was not able to read a text in Hebrew as the vowels are not marked in the script), however the problem is that I used online resources so I went to those sites less and less frequently and ultimately I dropped Hebrew altogether. I really need to have real books when I learn a language. But this week I stumbled upon some Hebrew learning materials and the urge to tackle the language appeared again. The issue is that I can learn actively only 2 languages at the same time (now, DE and RO) and Russian has been waiting for its chance since too long already. Maybe I'll make small steps and start again with the Hebrew alphabet for the moment, then I'll see if I still have the passion for it. I even bought the only course available for Polish self-learners of Hebrew but it's not fit for beginners in my humble opinion (it doesn't mean it's poor quality, on the contrary, it just should be addressed to pre-intermediate students), so I'll possibly end up buying Assimil which seems pretty ok and has positive reviews. Oh well, we'll see, I need to stay focused and not get distracted by other languages.
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cjareck
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Re: AroAro's log DE, RO, IT, FR, EN

Postby cjareck » Sat Sep 12, 2020 7:46 pm

For Hebrew you may check the FSI course - https://www.yojik.eu/languages/FSI/fsi-hebrew.html
I put vocabulary and drills into Anki deck - I may share with you if you wish. I find the course interesting and helpful in speaking. Listening and reading are my weakest points in Hebrew.
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HE vocabulary: : 7140 / 10000


MSA DLI : 16 / 141ESKK : 7 / 40 vocabulary : 608 / 2000


Mandarin Assimil : 27 / 105 Vocabulary : 1010 / 2000

AroAro
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Posts: 24
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Re: AroAro's log DE, RO, IT, FR, EN

Postby AroAro » Mon Sep 14, 2020 7:25 am

cjareck wrote:For Hebrew you may check the FSI course - https://www.yojik.eu/languages/FSI/fsi-hebrew.html
I put vocabulary and drills into Anki deck - I may share with you if you wish. I find the course interesting and helpful in speaking. Listening and reading are my weakest points in Hebrew.


Thank you cjareck for the recommendation of the FSI course! I had a look at it over the weekend and it seems really good and complete, so I'll definitely use it. Regarding your Anki deck - it's just so generous of you, I will let you know once I start Hebrew for good and need it.
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AroAro
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Posts: 24
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Re: AroAro's log DE, RO, IT, FR, EN

Postby AroAro » Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:21 pm

I finished reading the book "Jakuck. Słownik miejsca" by Michał Książek and I wanted to review it here briefly in my log. It's a non-fiction account of the writer's stay in Yakutsk. He moved there to study the Yakut language at the local university and he describes the city and the whole region making references to the language, especially the words that are impossible to translate directly into other languages. Such words are like triggers to talk about the climate, the people, the history and so on. I learned for example that Polish word "bałagan" comes from Russian, but it was borrowed from Yakut (and possible Chukchi) - in Polish and Russian it means "mess, untidiness" and I use this word every day to describe the state of my son's room... But in Yakut, balaghan refers to a special kind of yurt/round tent intended for domestic animals. It was surprising to discover that a Polish word can have its roots in Siberia's Far East.
Moreover, the author mentions that Yakut is a very difficult language for Slavic people because of the vowels as they can have two lengths - short and long. And there are only 10 thousand Russians in Yakutsk Oblast who speak Yakut as a second language. It reminds me of my friend who studied Hungarian philology and one of her tutors said that Polish speak with "closed mouth" - it's hard for us to distinguish and produce different vowels' length because we don't differentiate it in our language. It's also one of the reasons that keeps me away from learning Hungarian or other such languages, though there are Poles who mastered Hungarian so that's a question of practice and commitment.
The author could have focused more on linguistics than on history but I know not everyone is interested that much in Yakut language and he had to make some concessions to appeal to a broader public. I'm not going to learn Yakut but all in all it was an interesting read.
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cjareck
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Re: AroAro's log DE, RO, IT, FR, EN

Postby cjareck » Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:36 pm

AroAro wrote:I learned for example that Polish word "bałagan" comes from Russian, but it was borrowed from Yakut (and possible Chukchi) - in Polish and Russian it means "mess, untidiness" and I use this word every day to describe the state of my son's room... But in Yakut, balaghan refers to a special kind of yurt/round tent intended for domestic animals. It was surprising to discover that a Polish word can have its roots in Siberia's Far East.

Well, I thought that it is from Yiddish/Hebrew since in modern Hebrew the word "בלאגן" [balagan] means the same as in Polish. The matter seems to be worth some kind of academic research but I'm not a linguist.
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Please feel free to correct me in any language


HE vocabulary: : 7140 / 10000


MSA DLI : 16 / 141ESKK : 7 / 40 vocabulary : 608 / 2000


Mandarin Assimil : 27 / 105 Vocabulary : 1010 / 2000

AroAro
White Belt
Posts: 24
Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2020 12:57 pm
Languages: PL (native), EN, FR, IT, DE, RO
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... d80b60a5e9
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Re: AroAro's log DE, RO, IT, FR, EN

Postby AroAro » Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:31 pm

cjareck wrote:
AroAro wrote:I learned for example that Polish word "bałagan" comes from Russian, but it was borrowed from Yakut (and possible Chukchi) - in Polish and Russian it means "mess, untidiness" and I use this word every day to describe the state of my son's room... But in Yakut, balaghan refers to a special kind of yurt/round tent intended for domestic animals. It was surprising to discover that a Polish word can have its roots in Siberia's Far East.

Well, I thought that it is from Yiddish/Hebrew since in modern Hebrew the word "בלאגן" [balagan] means the same as in Polish. The matter seems to be worth some kind of academic research but I'm not a linguist.


I googled the etymology of the word bałagan a few days ago to check the author's claims but all the sites say merely it's of Russian origin. Only one site claimed that the word was borrowed by Russian from Kyrgyz which borrowed it in turn from Persian. So indeed, the word may derive from Middle East and then spread into Turkic and Slavic languages.
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