Neoplanta log - German, French, Arabic, Urdu etc.

Continue or start your personal language log here, including logs for challenge participants
User avatar
Saim
Blue Belt
Posts: 680
Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2015 12:14 pm
Location: Rheinland
Languages: Native: English
Others: Catalan, Serbian, Spanish, Polish, Hungarian, Urdu, French etc.
Main focus: German
x 2334

Re: Neoplanta log - German, Serbian, etc.

Postby Saim » Wed Dec 14, 2022 12:52 pm

This morning I had a German class and I feel like I've made a breakthrough. I'm starting to say a lot of stuff automatically and spontaneously and don't have to search for expressions anywhere nearly as much.

I also managed to call my work and sort out some relatively complicated administrative stuff in German, so that was nice. I was close to deciding just to do it in English but I'm glad I went through with doing it in German, I did have to ask the admin lady what she meant by one phrase but other than that I managed to resolve the issue without much struggle (it helped that we had previously exchanged e-mails in German so I already had some context before going into the interaction).

Here's my study routine now:

  • Reading novels where I underline most unkown words and add them to Quizlet; I don't have any goals as to how long I should read, but I guess it's at least ~80-120 pages per week. I find that if I read much more I neglect explicit vocabulary study.
  • Extensive listening to easy-ish material (some YouTube, one short podcast, dubbed cartoons for older children/teenagers) where I for the most part don't look anything up. I find this has a more direct effect on my speaking skills than reading does.
  • 1-2 sets of 120-word (including collocations and short phrases) Quizlet decks per week that I revise once or twice. These words mostly come from novels, occasionally from audio material or my class.

My goal with reading is to actively expand my vocabulary, whereas with listening I fall back and let the language wash over me so I can have better automaticity while speaking and reinforce my intermediate knowledge. I find this is a good combination where I take advantage of the strengths of each medium; I just have to make sure I can understand what I'm listening to and don't zone out too much.

Saim wrote:I also find that in Quizlet it's much easier to start with recognition cards and then move onto recall, as you just have to flip on the "writing" switch in the settings. I tend to do "flashcard" recognition (German > English) until the cards are in the "still learning" pile, then once they're there I do "writing".


Both were recall, just one with writing and one with flashcards. Not sure what I was talking about here.

I don't really believe in recognition cards any more; I think doing them for a while made me a better language learner because I found recall too hard and tiring to train, but they definitely overstayed their welcome and you learn much more from recall cards. Part of the reason I resisted practicing recall for so long, besides the fact that I was spreading myself too thin and found it too tiring, was the superstitious idea that you need to learn words naturalistically and not create 1-1 correspondences with words in your native language, but I find establishing a 1-1 correspondence through translating individual words can create good initial scaffolding that is then reinforced through real language use and exposure.

And then I just forget about them for the most part. I remember experimenting with doing both recognition and recall in Anki back in the day, but I find it too confusing and unwieldy to have multiple cards associated with the same "note".


I've decided instead to group my cards into decks of 120 and then revise them once or twice when I feel like it. I think this is a good middle point between the digital equivalent of chaotic scribbling in notebooks where you forget everything and anal hyper-Ankiing where you do endless revision.

I've also deleted my YouTube app on my phone and switched over to Apple Podcasts.


I've brought back YouTube, there are too many interesting ~10 minute videos, some of which I even enjoy relistening, for me to not to take advantage of them. I think I just needed to take a break to sort out my addiction to short clickbait content in English.

I've also started watching dubbed German material on Netflix; I watched the last season of The Dragon Prince and am now going through Avatar: The Last Airbender, mostly just listening without watching (I watched the Italian dub many years ago). On Apple Podcasts I only listen to Psychologie To Go in German; keeping up with multiple programmes was too much of a headache.
11 x
log

شجرِ ممنوع 152

User avatar
Saim
Blue Belt
Posts: 680
Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2015 12:14 pm
Location: Rheinland
Languages: Native: English
Others: Catalan, Serbian, Spanish, Polish, Hungarian, Urdu, French etc.
Main focus: German
x 2334

Re: Neoplanta log - German, French, Arabic, etc.

Postby Saim » Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:45 pm

German

I've been seeing amazing results by watching/listening to the French dub of Cosita linda. I find it fairly easy to find the time to lisen to it. I find that with these super long series it's a lot easier to spend more time listening because you're not wasting time picking a new series to watch. I also love the sheer volume of dialogue in these kinds of shows; they really waste no space on music or dramatic pans over gritty city views or whatever.

So Netflix doesn't really work, as fun as it was revisiting Avatar in the German dub. The shows are mostly too short (and also I hate how long it takes for the app to load; thankfully I can watch RTL+ in my web browser).

I want to reproduce the success I had with French with German. I saw that there are some German soaps on YouTube, as well as some Latin American telenovelas dubbed in German, but they're all quite old and I'd like to watch a more recent show.

So I've subscribed to RTL+. I've watched 9 episodes (around 6.5 hours) of Köln 50667; I thought it was kind of cute because I live near Cologne. But it's a bit of an amateurish production, the audio quality isn't great, there isn't enough volume of dialogue (lots of pointless sex scenes and longish cuts to music) and it isn't dramatic enough to really draw me in. It feels close to the level of quality of pseudo-reality shows like Hilf mir. I'm going to try out Alles was zählt instead, which seems to be RTL's main soap, hopefully this will work better.

French

Earlier in the month I went to Paris and met up with a French friend of mine from Australia. Since I met her in Australia and had never really spoken to her in French before I was worried I would spend the whole trip speaking English. We did start in English but I ended up speaking a lot of French with two of her friends, and she eventually started switching over to French more and more as well. I even got complimented on my French (in Paris of all places!), believe it or not.

So French is now a language that I can safely say that I "speak" and not just one that I've dabbled in. I’m past the stage of having basic communicative skills in pidgin Hispano-French. I'm going to keep listening to Cosita linda, reading novels, working on my Quizlet decks, doing translation exercises and iTalki lessons. Wallonia and Brussels are also nearby so that could be fun to visit at some point. Hopefully I'll eventually find the time to go back and tidy up my Portuguese and Italian in this way.

Arabic

Arabic is going well. I've been reading Al-Jazeera's twitter feed lately. I find the tweets easier to deal with than full articles.
10 x
log

شجرِ ممنوع 152

lichtrausch
Blue Belt
Posts: 519
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2015 3:21 pm
Languages: English (N), German, Japanese, Mandarin, Korean
x 1409

Re: Neoplanta log - German, French, Arabic, etc.

Postby lichtrausch » Tue Jan 10, 2023 11:14 pm

Saim wrote:I've been seeing amazing results by watching/listening to the French dub of Cosita linda. I find it fairly easy to find the time to lisen to it. I find that with these super long series it's a lot easier to spend more time listening because you're not wasting time picking a new series to watch. I also love the shear volume of dialogue in these kinds of shows; they really waste no space on music or dramatic pans over gritty city views or whatever.

So Netflix doesn't really work, as fun as it was revisiting Avatar in the German dub. The shows are mostly too short (and also I hate how long it takes for the app to load; thankfully I can watch RTL+ in my web browser).

I've also been put off by the low language density of some shows. My solution is liberal fast-forwarding. Obviously past the intro and outro, but also whenever music starts playing during an episode it usually indicates there won't be any dialogue for a bit. Whenever the camera pans out, as you mentioned. Almost all of these shows I wouldn't bother watching if it wasn't for language learning purposes, so who cares if I miss 5 or 10 minutes of an episode due to liberal fast-forwarding? Fast-forward keyboard shortcuts are a lifesaver.
1 x

User avatar
Saim
Blue Belt
Posts: 680
Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2015 12:14 pm
Location: Rheinland
Languages: Native: English
Others: Catalan, Serbian, Spanish, Polish, Hungarian, Urdu, French etc.
Main focus: German
x 2334

Re: Neoplanta log - German, French, Arabic, etc.

Postby Saim » Mon Jan 23, 2023 10:43 am

Saim wrote:German

So I've subscribed to RTL+. I've watched 9 episodes (around 6.5 hours) of Köln 50667; I thought it was kind of cute because I live near Cologne. But it's a bit of an amateurish production, the audio quality isn't great, there isn't enough volume of dialogue (lots of pointless sex scenes and longish cuts to music) and it isn't dramatic enough to really draw me in. It feels close to the level of quality of pseudo-reality shows like Hilf mir. I'm going to try out Alles was zählt instead, which seems to be RTL's main soap, hopefully this will work better.


Yep, entertaining show. Doesn't draw you in quite as much as Cosita linda but it's good enough.

Arabic

Arabic is going well. I've been reading Al-Jazeera's twitter feed lately. I find the tweets easier to deal with than full articles.


I've mixed in a bit of ReadLang of articles for good measure so I can try to work towards more "flowing" reading. I think I might try to read through multiple articles from different outlets on the same topic so I can get a bit more repetition going on.

I feel like I should also do a bit of listening, especially since a lot of the grammar is hard to glean just from reading due to the fact short vowels aren't written (although you see the occasional dammah to explicitly mark the passive voice). I see the Arabic AJ+ channel subtitles a lot of its videos in Arabic, so that could be a good resource for listening/reading practice.

EDIT: Yep, this is great stuff. Between reading/listening subtitled AJ+ videos, reading multiple articles on the same story in Readlang and skimming through news outlets' Twitter feeds I should have more than enough content to keep filling my Anki deck without going crazy.

Punjabi

I've been wondering for a while how to continue working on my Punjabi and bring it to a more solid conversational level. I think I should abandon reading for now and focus on listening, but the problem is finding something I can enjoy listening to and understand most of, but which also many dozens of hours of content. I see that there are some low-budget dramas produced by Zee5, but I don't understand enough of the dialogue there for them to be particularly enjoyable or worth my time in terms of proportion of content that I can immediately understand or decypher with little effort.

I think my only option is to do intensive listening of Punjabi films subtitled in English, trying to repeat after as many sentences as I can and occasionally looking up words and putting them in a Quizlet deck when I feel I can decypher what's being said through an English>Punjabi lookup or if the word is so clear to me that I can do a Punjabi>English one. I find it much more enjoyable to go through Punjabi content sentence-by-sentence like this rather than trying to do extensive listening where I'll just zone out for the most part. Eventually after I've gone through enough content I'll start mixing in 1-1 tutoring. I think I'm also not that far from being able to comfortably understand Zee5 dramas, so once I get to that point the pace of learning will be able to speed up a bit.

When it comes to my long-term goals I think it's important I keep both Middle Eastern and Indian languages ticking over to some degree even when European languages (currently German and French) are my main focus. I'm at the point where I don't feel the need/desire to work on my Urdu as much any more so I think I'll get more satisfaction out of improving my Punjabi.
9 x
log

شجرِ ممنوع 152

User avatar
Saim
Blue Belt
Posts: 680
Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2015 12:14 pm
Location: Rheinland
Languages: Native: English
Others: Catalan, Serbian, Spanish, Polish, Hungarian, Urdu, French etc.
Main focus: German
x 2334

Re: Neoplanta log - German, French, Arabic, Punjabi etc.

Postby Saim » Tue Feb 28, 2023 3:09 pm

German: listening vs. reading

Out of curiosity I roughly calculated how long it takes me to consume 13 sentences when reading a novel compared to listening to a soap opera.

When reading, it takes me about 45 seconds. Alles was zählt gives me 13 sentences around every 55 seconds.

I thought the difference would be bigger, and more strongly in favour of reading. That's also besides the fact that when reading novels I often struggle to concentrate and miss lots of meaning, outweighing the 10-second advantage reading has over listening. This makes me think it makes more sense for now to focus on listening and to not do much reading.

Alles was zählt also has German subtitles, which makes it easier to learn new words. The subtitle option randomly disappears sometimes, although it always comes back eventually. Not sure what the deal is there.

EDIT: Not to mention the fact that I read and write a lot at work so it's hard for me to focus on that in my free time. I find it easier to avoid scrolling Reddit and Facebook and looking at YouTube/Instagram shorts when I'm focusing on listening to telenovelas than when I try to force myself to read a lot.

What does this mean for my other "core" languages?

When I feel like reading novels, I might stick to Serbian and Catalan (and maybe other Romance languages) for now. For other languages I have somewhere in the B band I'll focus on listening as much as I can, with some tutoring and translation as supplementary activities. I think the "telenovela method" works better than novels when you need to prioritise volume of meaningful exposure (once you already understand 90+% of telenovela dialogues but need to spend more time with the language to start speaking comfortably) over sheer breadth of vocabulary. What's the point of knowing many thousands of words when I still stumble over basic sentences?

Two other languages I'm already quite good at but would like to "clean up" a bit are Polish and Hungarian, and so I'd like to cycle back to those two once I'm a bit more comfortable in French and especially German. I think the "telenovela method" would get me quite far here. I really wish I could find a way to get access to the Hungarian version of RTL+ and watch Barátok közt; I can watch videos on videa.hu (and I see they have Hungarian dubs of Turkish telenovelas) on my computer but they don't load on my phone.

Thankfully, I see I have access to the TVP telenovela M jak Miłość, and it also has Polish subtitles!

EDIT: videa.hu has started working on my phone. Not sure why it didn't last time I checked. Ah, the "wonders" of technology...

Arabic

Arabic has been chugging along nicely. I pushed up to 10 cards per day for a while, but now I'm back down to 6.

I've started doing intensive listening to the Arabic dub of the Legend of Korra on Netflix; the subtitles are only in English but most of the time that's enough for me to more-or-less figure out what they're saying in Arabic. Since Arabic soaps and dramas tend to be in the vernacular language (except for period dramas maybe?), I think learning to understand cartoons could be a good way to work myself up to extensive listening in Standard Arabic. I used to have this delusion that I would eventually start just listening to Arabic news reports and documentaries all the time but that's just unrealistic... too boring.

Hebrew and Basque have totally fallen to the wayside. Oh well, it was probably too much anyway. At least I've managed to be consistent about Arabic for the first time in my life (and without my German suffering!).
10 x
log

شجرِ ممنوع 152

User avatar
Saim
Blue Belt
Posts: 680
Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2015 12:14 pm
Location: Rheinland
Languages: Native: English
Others: Catalan, Serbian, Spanish, Polish, Hungarian, Urdu, French etc.
Main focus: German
x 2334

Re: Neoplanta log - German, French, Arabic, Punjabi etc.

Postby Saim » Wed Mar 08, 2023 6:51 pm

I have finished the French dub of Cosita linda. The ending felt a bit anti-climactic because it felt like most of the action happened in the last 30 minutes and nothing really happened in the last several dozen episodes, I got a bit of whiplash. Still a relatively engaging show, if endlessly silly (my favourite aspect is the amount of times you hear that a given character has retiré sa plainte in what are clearly criminal cases).

I will now circle back to the Urdu dub of Yasak Elma (Shajar-e-Mamnu) as I am visiting Pakistan later this year and would as such like to work on my Urdu as my secondary focus after German. I'll take a bit of a break from French for the time being, with maybe a bit of reading thrown in. (EDIT: I still wish I could fit in more Punjabi but it's not particularly viable at this point, unfortunately.)
6 x
log

شجرِ ممنوع 152

User avatar
Saim
Blue Belt
Posts: 680
Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2015 12:14 pm
Location: Rheinland
Languages: Native: English
Others: Catalan, Serbian, Spanish, Polish, Hungarian, Urdu, French etc.
Main focus: German
x 2334

Re: Neoplanta log - German, French, Arabic, Urdu etc.

Postby Saim » Thu Apr 20, 2023 8:51 pm

German

I finished the 2022 season of Alles was zählt last month.

German: Alles was zählt
253 episodes: 253 / 253 (~92 hours)

I tried to move on to the soap Alisa folge deinem Herzen, but I was really struggling to get into it. I think I'll take a bit of a break from soaps and telenovelas for now, except for Shajar-e-Mamnu.

Instead, I have started watching the German Youtubers Jasmin Gnu, Renzo and Julien Bam. They have a lot of reaction videos to Tik-Tok clips which I find very entertaining. The collaboration videos are especially helpful since it's spontaneous speech where they're speaking amongst themselves, which is good to get used to; they have a whole bunch of videos like this so it's a bit of a gold mine honestly! This is actually the only kind of content I've really watched in English over the past couple of years (Cody Ko, Danny Gonzalez, etc.), so it's nice to be able to scratch that itch in a language I am focusing on.

I've also started reading the novel Frankie by Jochen Gutsch and Maxim Leo. Reading this book doesn't feel like work, I finally feel like I'm ready for pleasure more than as a study exercise. The book has a very conversational style and doesn't use a huge amount of rare vocabulary so that may be part of it, but I think it's also the 90 or so hours of Alles was zählt plus all the other reading I've done that's finally paying off.

I haven't been doing many iTalki classes. I'll start getting back into those in the second half of May.
8 x
log

شجرِ ممنوع 152

User avatar
Saim
Blue Belt
Posts: 680
Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2015 12:14 pm
Location: Rheinland
Languages: Native: English
Others: Catalan, Serbian, Spanish, Polish, Hungarian, Urdu, French etc.
Main focus: German
x 2334

Re: Neoplanta log - German, French, Arabic, Urdu etc.

Postby Saim » Tue May 16, 2023 7:22 am

Urdu

I've just got back from a two-week visit to Pakistan.

This was my most enjoyable trip to the country as an adult to date. A big part of this is the fact that my Urdu is getting a lot better and I could actually have proper conversations in the language and understand what people were saying to me.

My last trip to Islamabad (7 years ago) was a bit difficult in many ways (not just linguistically), so having a more positive experience was very satisfying. I'm confident I'll keep visiting for years to come and slowly develop my own relationship to the country independent of relatives and friends of relatives.

My Punjabi was also more-or-less usable (although the less Urduised the Punjabi the more I have comprehension issues) and some people seemed to find it endearing to hear me speak it, although in one situation in particular it bordered on "dancing monkey" territory. I'm not planning on studying Punjabi actively until my Urdu is in the upper C1 range — this will probably take many years since I'm still committed to studying German and other languages — but I guess my Punjabi will still grow along with my Urdu because I already have a relatively strong background in it and they're similar languages. In any case I'm relatively satisfied with my level even though it's not ideal.

I've bought an Urdu translation of Camus's L'Étranger (I read this in high school in English and then in French again much later) and one of Lenin's Государство и революция (I've read the Polish and Serbian translations). I used to be a bit allergic to translations, but I feel like with languages that are very "civilisationally" different from ones you're already good at they can serve as a good stepping stone. That said, I'm not using this for extensive reading, I'm using it for easier intensive reading; I'm studying lots of vocabulary and rereading pages.

Image

I've also bought a travelogue by a Pakistani who visited Australia (aasTreliyaa aavaargii[1] by Mustansar Hussain Tarar). The only book I've read front-to-back in Urdu is another safar-naamah[2] about the US, and I found it relatively simple to read.

[1] آسٹریلیا آوارگی
[2] سفر نامہ

I also watched the Hindi film Tuesdays & Fridays and the Urdu film Quaid-e-Azam Zindabad. I didn't like the first one so much because it was a bit too Hinglish-y for my taste, although it was interesting in that it felt like a Western romantic comedy (it was only 90 minutes long and the musical numbers didn't last for more than 40-60 seconds each!) that happened to be in Hindi and not something to be classed within what non-South Asians would associated with "Bollywood" almost as a kind of genre. The latter was a more typical silly masala film, but I found that the comedic elements worked relatively well and it was nice to watch a film set in Karachi for a change rather than the typical Delhi/Bombay stuff.

The only downside to all this is that I've spent the past 3 or so weeks not doing much German. But I think it was nice to take a break; I'm excited about getting back into it. My German also doesn't seem particularly rusty despite the minor hiatus.

Basque

I've read the following article (twice) and added 26 new words to a Memrise deck (gone over the whole thing 6-7 times or so):

https://www.naiz.eus/eu/hemeroteca/gara ... -etenik-ez

I'm finding that I need to do both intense flashcards and rereading to make any progress with "hard" languages in a way that I can actually enjoy. I always used to do one or the other, but I've found that that doesn't work quite as well. I've come to the conclusion that it's a bit foolhardy to think you always have to do extensive activities regardless of your level in the language or degree of linguistic distance. Looking at where my Urdu is now, I'd have benefited a lot more from being more consistent in my intensive activities and focusing more on vocabulary rather than deluding myself into thinking that extensive activities are helpful. I feel like I could've shaved 3-4 years off the whole process.

I also like that when I do both rereading and flashcards, the deck becomes a bit of a "closed set" that I can study to death and then eventually delete. One of the worst things about flashcard use accompanying extensive reading is that it feels neverending and you don't get the same feeling of accomplishment. When you do repeated intensive reading, I find it more satisfying to treat flashcard decks as closed lists rather than hypothetically infinite ones.

I also added some grammar-related cards to Anki.

I've taken a bit of a break from Arabic but I'm excited to get back into it after I've cycled through my "Basque phase".
11 x
log

شجرِ ممنوع 152

User avatar
Saim
Blue Belt
Posts: 680
Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2015 12:14 pm
Location: Rheinland
Languages: Native: English
Others: Catalan, Serbian, Spanish, Polish, Hungarian, Urdu, French etc.
Main focus: German
x 2334

Re: Neoplanta log - German, French, Arabic, Urdu etc.

Postby Saim » Wed Dec 13, 2023 7:50 pm

Arabic

I’ve been using the premium version of Language Reactor on dubbed cartoons. The fact that it can generate accurate subtitles for dubbed content is pretty amazing. I had been trudging along with subtitles that didn’t totally match the audio, which was good enough, but this is ten times better. I’m having a lot of fun with it and think I’ll stick with Arabic for a while.
7 x
log

شجرِ ممنوع 152

User avatar
Saim
Blue Belt
Posts: 680
Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2015 12:14 pm
Location: Rheinland
Languages: Native: English
Others: Catalan, Serbian, Spanish, Polish, Hungarian, Urdu, French etc.
Main focus: German
x 2334

Re: Neoplanta log - German, French, Arabic, Urdu etc.

Postby Saim » Mon Feb 19, 2024 11:12 pm

I've been using a lot of Memrise recently. I find that it works a lot better than Anki simply because it forces you to type the words out (I know you can technically make Anki do this but it's not worth the effort when Memrise works just as well). I use the website version, but on my mobile phone since I find it easier to switch between keyboards on my phone than on the computer. I don't like the app because of the multiple choice questions, which I believe are useless.

I think my main problem with Memrise in the past was that I would want to add to many words and then burn out quickly. Now I've been pacing myself a lot more. Some of the main languages I've been using it for have been Urdu (I'm getting decent but there are still so many words to learn!) and Arabic.

I spent a couple of weeks in Australia on holiday and surprisingly ended up speaking quite a lot of French. My friends were mostly free in the evening and so during the day I was often left to my own devices and ended up bumping into lots of Francophone tourists and "work-holiday" people in Brisbane's city center. My French was a lot less rusty than I expected given how little I've used it over the past months. I'm looking forward to getting even better at it in the coming years.

As I said in another thread, one thing I've been doing a lot is translation exercises using the Google Translate popup plugin in Chrome. It's kind of been the "missing link" in my study routine, I find that if I do a bit of it I naturally end up babbling to myself in whatever the target language is.

I find that writing is a lot harder to make time for, because the act of typing itself takes time (whereas in my translation exercises I generally just formulate the sentences in my head now), and also due to writer's block, which Cainntear mentioned here:

Cainntear wrote:[Translation] takes away the need for you to decide what to say[,] [w]hich means
you can dedicate more of your brain to the act of composition, and there isn't a period between composition where you have to stop and decide what to say
11 x
log

شجرِ ممنوع 152


Return to “Language logs”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: rpg and 2 guests