JLS log - Spanish, Greek, Hebrew, Latin, Chinese

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JLS
White Belt
Posts: 43
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2020 11:53 am
Languages: English (N), Spanish (conversational), Mandarin (beginner), Koine Greek (proficient reader), Biblical Hebrew (intermediate), Latin (past first year level)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=15664
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Re: JLS log - Spanish, Greek, Hebrew, Latin, Chinese

Postby JLS » Thu Oct 28, 2021 11:55 am

Latin
Months ago I commenced reading the Latin Vulgate. Nothing too special. Just read a chapter each day with the hopes of picking up the feel of the language. That's precisely what is happening. I have a sense of the language. Something of an incipient Latin instinct seems to be developing.

Greek
I don't have trouble reading Koine Greek now. Of course, I know the texts well in English, but Koine reading feels near-natural.

Hebrew
Just going through chapter readings, getting more natural sense. I want to do Modern. I hear it helps immensely. Reading Hebrew doesn't feel fully naturalized yet, but I feel that it's coming.

Chinese
I memorized a Chinese song 虫儿飞. Literally "Bugs fly", though "Fireflies fly" may be appropriate given content of song. It was sent to me by a native Chinese friend when I asked for original Chinese music for teaching my children. Discussion on song can be found at this link. Maybe a bit sappy, but it cements some words and characters in memory for me.

What did I learn? Among a few cultural concepts, eg. the significance of pairs, a Chinese perspective on winter, description of the stars, and how all-comprehensive things may be described eg. (going anywhere described by north-east-south-west language); but also, the East and Western worlds are remarkably similar in this: we both write semi-coherent love songs with loosely-connected phrases that somehow run together, just to make sure we stick in the rhyme scheme. Or at least, natives in both world perceive their own music to be that way, and are probably right.

But most happily, my children whom I am trying to teach Chinese have picked up the lines of the song just hearing me sing it! Or hearing the song a few times over. My oldest one can sing quite accurately:

黑黑的天空低垂
亮亮的繁星相随
虫儿飞,虫儿飞
你在思念谁

Of course, she can't read it, and her pronunciation is still squarely American (I doubt she distinguishes between "sh" and "x"). But she likes the "funny little robot" at the beginning of the first line.

Chinese is difficult for a Westerner, so whatever is fun in learning the language, that needs to be brought out for them. I have no expectation that my small children are going to master basic-level reading for a little while. But for now, fun songs about counting 小恐龙 will have to do.

I find that learning language for adults isn't any different than for a child: In both cases, there needs to be an experience that makes it work. What connects you to the language? What about the native speakers or their world is fascinating?
7 x
Read Greek New Testament: 61 / 260 - 61 / 260 chapters
Read Hebrew Bible: 107 / 920 - 107 / 920 chapters
Read Vulgate: 87 / 1189 - 87 / 1189 - chapters
Learn Chinese Radicals: 20 / 214 - 20 / 214 radicals

JLS
White Belt
Posts: 43
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2020 11:53 am
Languages: English (N), Spanish (conversational), Mandarin (beginner), Koine Greek (proficient reader), Biblical Hebrew (intermediate), Latin (past first year level)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=15664
x 84

Re: JLS log - Spanish, Greek, Hebrew, Latin, Chinese

Postby JLS » Fri Dec 03, 2021 3:37 pm

I heard somewhere that, when beginning to acquire a language, we learn pronunciation at first but then drop it off. I will dedicate myself to constantly refining my pronunciation of Chinese to achieve a near-native accent.

I just don't know what accent I'll do. Small detail.
0 x
Read Greek New Testament: 61 / 260 - 61 / 260 chapters
Read Hebrew Bible: 107 / 920 - 107 / 920 chapters
Read Vulgate: 87 / 1189 - 87 / 1189 - chapters
Learn Chinese Radicals: 20 / 214 - 20 / 214 radicals

User avatar
Dr Mack Rettosy
Orange Belt
Posts: 134
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2020 5:53 pm
Location: USA, The Great Lakes
Languages: English (N), Mandarin
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=16180
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Re: JLS log - Spanish, Greek, Hebrew, Latin, Chinese

Postby Dr Mack Rettosy » Sat Dec 04, 2021 4:16 pm

JLS wrote:I heard somewhere that, when beginning to acquire a language, we learn pronunciation at first but then drop it off. I will dedicate myself to constantly refining my pronunciation of Chinese to achieve a near-native accent.

I just don't know what accent I'll do. Small detail.


I was so naive starting Chinese. Look here, a monolithic language that will give me access to 1.3 billion people! Wait, millions of people living across thousands of years creates language diversity? Ahh, 10 language groups, 800 dialects, thousands of accents? I suppose Putonghua it is...

But in all seriousness, acquiring an accent is definitely possible but you will need to be selective of your material. From what I've seen, the easiest accents to acquire (based off the amount of native materials) are probably Taiwanese, Sichuan, or Northeastern-Beijing.
2 x
Mandarin goals:
Read: 2146000 / 10000000 /10,000,000 汉字
Study: 2006 / 5000 / 5000 hours

JLS
White Belt
Posts: 43
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2020 11:53 am
Languages: English (N), Spanish (conversational), Mandarin (beginner), Koine Greek (proficient reader), Biblical Hebrew (intermediate), Latin (past first year level)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=15664
x 84

Re: JLS log - Spanish, Greek, Hebrew, Latin, Chinese

Postby JLS » Sat Dec 04, 2021 7:17 pm

Dr Mack Rettosy wrote:
JLS wrote:I heard somewhere that, when beginning to acquire a language, we learn pronunciation at first but then drop it off. I will dedicate myself to constantly refining my pronunciation of Chinese to achieve a near-native accent.

I just don't know what accent I'll do. Small detail.


I was so naive starting Chinese. Look here, a monolithic language that will give me access to 1.3 billion people! Wait, millions of people living across thousands of years creates language diversity? Ahh, 10 language groups, 800 dialects, thousands of accents? I suppose Putonghua it is...

But in all seriousness, acquiring an accent is definitely possible but you will need to be selective of your material. From what I've seen, the easiest accents to acquire (based off the amount of native materials) are probably Taiwanese, Sichuan, or Northeastern-Beijing.


I was amazed when I discovered how variable Chinese truly is! It's not just Mandarin and Cantonese. I'll probably settle for whatever my textbook's audio accent is. Likely Beijing-ese. Maybe someone can tell me? It's here. I trust copyright will be respected.

I trust no one will take the following too seriously.

1 x
Read Greek New Testament: 61 / 260 - 61 / 260 chapters
Read Hebrew Bible: 107 / 920 - 107 / 920 chapters
Read Vulgate: 87 / 1189 - 87 / 1189 - chapters
Learn Chinese Radicals: 20 / 214 - 20 / 214 radicals

JLS
White Belt
Posts: 43
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2020 11:53 am
Languages: English (N), Spanish (conversational), Mandarin (beginner), Koine Greek (proficient reader), Biblical Hebrew (intermediate), Latin (past first year level)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=15664
x 84

Re: JLS log - Spanish, Greek, Hebrew, Latin, Chinese

Postby JLS » Sat Mar 09, 2024 3:27 pm

Been a while. A few achievements in Latin since. Took an independent study in Latin in which I did the following:

- Read the entire New Testament Vulgate.
- Read Lingua Latina Familia Romana all the way through. Read some chapters a few times over. Paid attention to the grammatical information contained in it.
- Composed fifty Latin sentences.
- Watched 90 videos from David Noe's Latin Per Diem and took notes.
- Did an observation journal where I took down 200 lines of notes. Goal was to observe the use of words, grammatical structures, etc. Just be observant of how the language is used.

It's one of the best projects I've done.
6 x
Read Greek New Testament: 61 / 260 - 61 / 260 chapters
Read Hebrew Bible: 107 / 920 - 107 / 920 chapters
Read Vulgate: 87 / 1189 - 87 / 1189 - chapters
Learn Chinese Radicals: 20 / 214 - 20 / 214 radicals

JLS
White Belt
Posts: 43
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2020 11:53 am
Languages: English (N), Spanish (conversational), Mandarin (beginner), Koine Greek (proficient reader), Biblical Hebrew (intermediate), Latin (past first year level)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=15664
x 84

Re: JLS log - Spanish, Greek, Hebrew, Latin, Chinese

Postby JLS » Mon Mar 11, 2024 2:26 pm

I mentioned in the previous entry that I did an observation log for Latin.

When studying a language, it's good to go through a work bit by bit and take notes of what you see. This helps you spot new words, alternative uses of words, varying grammatical structures, odd uses, and idiosyncrasies. Not everything you need to know is in a textbook, and you could write volumes on the idiosyncrasies of any language. The best way to catch the odd, unusual, and rarer features of a language is to become acutely observant; and one great way to become observant is to keep a notebook of observation.

Think Sherlock. Get used to observing.
3 x
Read Greek New Testament: 61 / 260 - 61 / 260 chapters
Read Hebrew Bible: 107 / 920 - 107 / 920 chapters
Read Vulgate: 87 / 1189 - 87 / 1189 - chapters
Learn Chinese Radicals: 20 / 214 - 20 / 214 radicals

JLS
White Belt
Posts: 43
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2020 11:53 am
Languages: English (N), Spanish (conversational), Mandarin (beginner), Koine Greek (proficient reader), Biblical Hebrew (intermediate), Latin (past first year level)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=15664
x 84

Re: JLS log - Spanish, Greek, Hebrew, Latin, Chinese

Postby JLS » Thu Mar 21, 2024 4:55 pm

I try to spend 10 minutes a day on each of my languages: Spanish, Greek, Hebrew, Latin, Chinese. Better to spend little time and keep gains, than spend no time and lose them. Also, it's not intimidating. And it's better than the same time on Facebook.

I mentioned that I journal my observations on language. Observation is a skill universal for all language-learning. If you can notice, analyze in context, and deepen your intuition of one language, you can bring that to other languages too.

For Spanish, I primarily read. I have a friend who speaks Spanish, and we can make short conversation.
My Greek and Hebrew are in forms no longer spoken. Taking a text and making notes is enough. Same with Latin. I've done minor Latin composition, which does help.

For Chinese I practice writing the characters. Yes I can type the kanji, but I think pen and paper here will be far better for internalizing them. There's less disparity between putting English on screen and English on paper, than there is Chinese on a screen and Chinese on paper.
3 x
Read Greek New Testament: 61 / 260 - 61 / 260 chapters
Read Hebrew Bible: 107 / 920 - 107 / 920 chapters
Read Vulgate: 87 / 1189 - 87 / 1189 - chapters
Learn Chinese Radicals: 20 / 214 - 20 / 214 radicals

JLS
White Belt
Posts: 43
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2020 11:53 am
Languages: English (N), Spanish (conversational), Mandarin (beginner), Koine Greek (proficient reader), Biblical Hebrew (intermediate), Latin (past first year level)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=15664
x 84

Re: JLS log - Spanish, Greek, Hebrew, Latin, Chinese

Postby JLS » Sat Mar 23, 2024 12:39 pm

This 3-minute video illustrates the observation method I've written about in the last few posts. This is not the only video of its kind. Dr. David Noe has hundreds of videos just like it covering Latin works. I believe he has some videos on ancient Greek as well.

https://youtu.be/PrfdvP4_l1w?si=wVMm08ST33Z6rIdq
2 x
Read Greek New Testament: 61 / 260 - 61 / 260 chapters
Read Hebrew Bible: 107 / 920 - 107 / 920 chapters
Read Vulgate: 87 / 1189 - 87 / 1189 - chapters
Learn Chinese Radicals: 20 / 214 - 20 / 214 radicals


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