JLS log - Spanish, Greek, Hebrew, Latin, Chinese

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JLS
White Belt
Posts: 43
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2020 11:53 am
Languages: English (N), Spanish (conversational), Mandarin (beginner), Koine Greek (proficient reader), Biblical Hebrew (intermediate), Latin (past first year level)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=15664
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JLS log - Spanish, Greek, Hebrew, Latin, Chinese

Postby JLS » Sat Jul 18, 2020 5:28 pm

Hello - Hola - καλημερα - שלום - Salve - 你好

I am Jake, husband to a wonderful girl, father of three.

I am a native speaker of English.
Proficient Spanish conversationalist and reader.
Decent reader of Koine Greek, novice at Latin, intermediate with antiquated Hebrew. Never studied modern Greek or Hebrew. Sorry.
New to Chinese, hear it's hard, but 1.2 billion people has to count for something in making decisions.

I know how to say hello in Korean and answer the phone in Korean, only because I accidentally learned the telephone answer instead of the personal greeting, had my intercultural experience of being an amateur botching other peoples' languages. The extent of my Japanese is "Domo arigato, Mister roboto." Sorry. I do also know that it's To-kyo, and not To-ki-o. Started German long ago, as well as French, never followed through.

I did learn some of an obscure Asian language called Kayah Li, used by the Karenni. Basically just learned how to read the words, how to order them, and copy-and-paste words from a dictionary into sentences. What reactions I got when actually trying to say them!

But for all of those hiccups, it's wonderful watching the expressions on peoples' faces when they see you have taken the time to learn words from their own language. They take it as an act of love.

How did I learn what I learned? Spanish was in school, some rote memorization, persistently listening to Spanish materials.

Greek and Hebrew, studied on my own (declensions were painful!!), just kept reading, memorizing some lines in the target language as well. Listened to hours and hours and hours of narrations in these languages. Did some journey method style memory work to help with these.

Latin, no formal study, just listening to the Vulgate in audio, and reading persistently.

Chinese, I plan to do a lot of listening, even if I don't understand, and see what I get as far as well.

In all cases, I will try to integrate it into everyday life. Name things in the target languages, use the words with children (I want them to know Spanish and Chinese), and listen/read something in each language each day. What makes me happy is that my wife is excited to go on the Spanish journey with me. Best of all is to have someone to do this with.

Glad to be here!
Last edited by JLS on Tue Jun 08, 2021 11:45 am, edited 3 times in total.
11 x
Read Greek New Testament: 61 / 260 - 61 / 260 chapters
Read Hebrew Bible: 107 / 920 - 107 / 920 chapters
Read Vulgate: 87 / 1189 - 87 / 1189 - chapters
Learn Chinese Radicals: 20 / 214 - 20 / 214 radicals

golyplot
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1726
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2017 9:41 pm
Languages: Am. English (N), German, French, ASL (abandoned), Spanish, Dutch, Italian, Japanese (N2)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=12230
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Re: JLS log - [Please insert clickbait title here]

Postby golyplot » Sun Jul 19, 2020 2:16 pm

JLS wrote:Chinese, I plan to do a lot of listening, even if I don't understand, and see what I get as far as well.


Are you planning to do any other sorts of studying besides just listening to things in Chinese?

It will be interesting to see how this works out. I've never studied Chinese, but the one thing (English speaking) Chinese learners consistently complain about is how hard the tone system is. It seems like it would be quite difficult to pick up just by listening.

Apart from that, if Chinese is your first East Asian language, it's going to be extremely difficult in general, just due to how alien everything is and the complete lack of a shared foundation in vocabulary and grammar. I've been studying Japanese for the last seven months, and it has been extremely difficult for me, despite the fact that Japanese has a very simple sound system that is relatively easy for English speakers to perceive compared to Chinese and Korean.
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JLS
White Belt
Posts: 43
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2020 11:53 am
Languages: English (N), Spanish (conversational), Mandarin (beginner), Koine Greek (proficient reader), Biblical Hebrew (intermediate), Latin (past first year level)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=15664
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Re: JLS log - [Please insert clickbait title here]

Postby JLS » Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:38 am

golyplot wrote:
JLS wrote:Chinese, I plan to do a lot of listening, even if I don't understand, and see what I get as far as well.


Are you planning to do any other sorts of studying besides just listening to things in Chinese?

It will be interesting to see how this works out. I've never studied Chinese, but the one thing (English speaking) Chinese learners consistently complain about is how hard the tone system is. It seems like it would be quite difficult to pick up just by listening.

Apart from that, if Chinese is your first East Asian language, it's going to be extremely difficult in general, just due to how alien everything is and the complete lack of a shared foundation in vocabulary and grammar. I've been studying Japanese for the last seven months, and it has been extremely difficult for me, despite the fact that Japanese has a very simple sound system that is relatively easy for English speakers to perceive compared to Chinese and Korean.


It's not the only thing I'll do. It's probably the main thing I will do, only because that's what I'm restrained to. Still will practice hanji and reading when possible. My goal at the beginning is to tune my ears to the language.

I listened to one polyglot who said that when he begins a language, he starts by reading as much as he can, probably listening as well. I want to give this a go.

I had the experience you describe with Old Hebrew. No connection at all to English. New letters, new words, different ways of morphing words, changing verb tense by vowel shifts... that was a challenge!
2 x
Read Greek New Testament: 61 / 260 - 61 / 260 chapters
Read Hebrew Bible: 107 / 920 - 107 / 920 chapters
Read Vulgate: 87 / 1189 - 87 / 1189 - chapters
Learn Chinese Radicals: 20 / 214 - 20 / 214 radicals

JLS
White Belt
Posts: 43
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2020 11:53 am
Languages: English (N), Spanish (conversational), Mandarin (beginner), Koine Greek (proficient reader), Biblical Hebrew (intermediate), Latin (past first year level)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=15664
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Re: JLS log - [Please insert clickbait title here]

Postby JLS » Thu Jul 23, 2020 8:03 pm

Old Hebrew and Greek, and Latin, bring a special challenge—no one speaks them anymore. I feel handicapped in getting into the soul of the languages. Advice on making a dead language to be living?
0 x
Read Greek New Testament: 61 / 260 - 61 / 260 chapters
Read Hebrew Bible: 107 / 920 - 107 / 920 chapters
Read Vulgate: 87 / 1189 - 87 / 1189 - chapters
Learn Chinese Radicals: 20 / 214 - 20 / 214 radicals

David27
Green Belt
Posts: 279
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 8:52 pm
Languages: English (N)
French, Spanish (advanced)
Russian, Portuguese, Italian, German (proficient)
Mandarin, Japanese, Dutch (low-intermediate)
Latin, Polish: (beginner)
Abandoned languages (for now) :( Greek, Czech, Bengali, Arabic, Norwegian
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Re: JLS log - [Please insert clickbait title here]

Postby David27 » Fri Jul 24, 2020 12:54 am

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BbcRm5EbGxg&t=136s

Some don’t treat Latin as a dead language. This guy’s enthusiasm is contagious and I started learning from him.
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JLS
White Belt
Posts: 43
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2020 11:53 am
Languages: English (N), Spanish (conversational), Mandarin (beginner), Koine Greek (proficient reader), Biblical Hebrew (intermediate), Latin (past first year level)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=15664
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Re: JLS log - [Please insert clickbait title here]

Postby JLS » Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:17 am

שלום

Dipping into Modern Hebrew to see how it helps my ancient Hebrew. Wonderful to hear so many words I know brought out in speech! There are differences between the old and modern, but enough similarities for me to make what I am inclined to think is an easy transition to proficiency in the modern. אני למד בשמחה

Will consider if I should do the same with Greek.
1 x
Read Greek New Testament: 61 / 260 - 61 / 260 chapters
Read Hebrew Bible: 107 / 920 - 107 / 920 chapters
Read Vulgate: 87 / 1189 - 87 / 1189 - chapters
Learn Chinese Radicals: 20 / 214 - 20 / 214 radicals

JLS
White Belt
Posts: 43
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2020 11:53 am
Languages: English (N), Spanish (conversational), Mandarin (beginner), Koine Greek (proficient reader), Biblical Hebrew (intermediate), Latin (past first year level)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=15664
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Re: JLS log - [Please insert clickbait title here]

Postby JLS » Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:11 am

How close are modern Greek and Koine Greek?

John 1, Filos Pergamos Translation on top
Koine Greek, textus receptus (Scrivener 1881 from Cambridge University Press) on bottom

1ΣTHN αρχή ήταν ο Λόγος, και ο Λόγος ήταν προς τον Θεό, και Θεός ήταν ο Λόγος.
1 Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ λόγος, καὶ ὁ λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν Θεόν, καὶ Θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος.

2Aυτός ήταν στην αρχή προς τον Θεό.
2 οὗτος ἦν ἐν ἀρχῇ πρὸς τὸν Θεόν.

3Όλα έγιναν διαμέσου αυτού· και χωρίς αυτόν δεν έγινε ούτε ένα το οποίο έχει γίνει.
3 πάντα διʼ αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο, καὶ χωρὶς αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο οὐδὲ ἕν, ὃ γέγονεν.

4Mέσα σ’ αυτόν ήταν ζωή, και η ζωή ήταν το φως των ανθρώπων.
4 ἐν αὐτῷ ζωὴ ἦν, καὶ ἡ ζωὴ ἦν τὸ φῶς τῶν ἀνθρώπων,

5Kαι το φως μέσα στο σκοτάδι φέγγει, και το σκοτάδι δεν το κατέλαβε.
5 καὶ τὸ φῶς ἐν τῇ σκοτίᾳ φαίνει, καὶ ἡ σκοτία αὐτὸ οὐ κατέλαβεν.

Perhaps this is doable.

But I still feel that there is more difference between Modern and Koine Greek than there is between Biblical Hebrew and Modern Hebrew. Of course, no one has tried to intentionally revive Koine or Classical Greek either.

Any Greek speakers who can comment on your experience reading classical Greek, koine Greek? Simple transition? Difficult? Does knowing one give any substantial help to knowing the other?
2 x
Read Greek New Testament: 61 / 260 - 61 / 260 chapters
Read Hebrew Bible: 107 / 920 - 107 / 920 chapters
Read Vulgate: 87 / 1189 - 87 / 1189 - chapters
Learn Chinese Radicals: 20 / 214 - 20 / 214 radicals

JLS
White Belt
Posts: 43
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2020 11:53 am
Languages: English (N), Spanish (conversational), Mandarin (beginner), Koine Greek (proficient reader), Biblical Hebrew (intermediate), Latin (past first year level)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=15664
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Re: JLS log - [Please insert clickbait title here]

Postby JLS » Sat Aug 08, 2020 1:44 pm

Experienced that click between Latin and life, where the words become something more than dormant. I don't have many speaking opportunities, but I could write in Latin. If my thoughts get out in Latin, that is good for me.

I have been thrilled to dip into Modern Hebrew, and to find words which I've learned in Ancient Hebrew to spring to life. Then to go back and listen to audio recordings of the Hebrew Bible, and find that things are becoming more comprehensible to me.

All in all though, I've spent great time actually listening. I listen to Spanish videos frequently on YouTube, and the Spanish language is becoming more natural to hear and follow, with less effort needed to concentrate and comprehend. That is probably feeding into everything as well.

I can listen to Chinese and pick out pronouns, with a very few scattered words. I am happy, since listening had always been the hardest part of language learning for me. Wonderful to make progress.
4 x
Read Greek New Testament: 61 / 260 - 61 / 260 chapters
Read Hebrew Bible: 107 / 920 - 107 / 920 chapters
Read Vulgate: 87 / 1189 - 87 / 1189 - chapters
Learn Chinese Radicals: 20 / 214 - 20 / 214 radicals

JLS
White Belt
Posts: 43
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2020 11:53 am
Languages: English (N), Spanish (conversational), Mandarin (beginner), Koine Greek (proficient reader), Biblical Hebrew (intermediate), Latin (past first year level)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=15664
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Re: JLS log - Spanish, Greek, Hebrew, Latin, Chinese

Postby JLS » Tue Jun 08, 2021 11:48 am

A little per day is good enough, I find.

I committed to just read one chapter in each target language each day. If that's all I can do, it's still something. I don't have the same goal for Chinese yet, as I just don't have the proficiency to read.

I am going to go back to the grammatical basics of Greek and Hebrew, and build from the ground up. Greater structures are built on smaller pieces. Don't underestimate the impact of the placement of an accent, or vowel shift, or anything seemingly insignificant.

I am not doing much in the way of systematized Latin training. I am only reading a bit each day as able, to see if I can just pick up on it. I know some from English, some from Spanish, and I understand declensions from having studied Greek.
4 x
Read Greek New Testament: 61 / 260 - 61 / 260 chapters
Read Hebrew Bible: 107 / 920 - 107 / 920 chapters
Read Vulgate: 87 / 1189 - 87 / 1189 - chapters
Learn Chinese Radicals: 20 / 214 - 20 / 214 radicals

JLS
White Belt
Posts: 43
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2020 11:53 am
Languages: English (N), Spanish (conversational), Mandarin (beginner), Koine Greek (proficient reader), Biblical Hebrew (intermediate), Latin (past first year level)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=15664
x 84

Re: JLS log - Spanish, Greek, Hebrew, Latin, Chinese

Postby JLS » Thu Aug 05, 2021 11:25 pm

Would someone be able to recommend a Hebrew news channel on YouTube?
0 x
Read Greek New Testament: 61 / 260 - 61 / 260 chapters
Read Hebrew Bible: 107 / 920 - 107 / 920 chapters
Read Vulgate: 87 / 1189 - 87 / 1189 - chapters
Learn Chinese Radicals: 20 / 214 - 20 / 214 radicals


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