Arnaud's lazy log (Russian & co)

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Arnaud
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Re: Arnaud's lazy log (Russian & co)

Postby Arnaud » Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:04 pm

I've reached 52% of Человек-амфибия by Beliaev. Half the book. I've calculated that around 5% of the words are now unknown (vs 10% at the beginning). I can read a little faster now, almost one chapter a day if it's not too long and too descriptive.
Since the beginning of the year, I've read around 250 pages of russian literature.
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Re: Arnaud's lazy log (Russian & co)

Postby Arnaud » Tue Jul 25, 2017 3:14 pm

Russian:
I've reached the third and last part of Человек-амфибия, probably around 75% of the book. Six chapters to go and I'm freeeeeee!!!
I like the book, really good, full of adventures and twists and turns and at the same time I'm anxious to finish it because I'm close to the burnout, I'm fed up to look for words constantly in the dictionary and I want to read something easier, so that not to be constantly out of my confort zone.
A good experience anyway, it shows how far from my goal I am and how I surestimate my level: an everyday little slap in the face to bring me back on earth is always welcome :lol:

Japanese:
Half an hour every morning of Japanese for Today.
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Re: Arnaud's lazy log (Russian & co)

Postby neofight78 » Mon Jul 31, 2017 6:04 pm

Arnaud wrote:Russian:
I've reached the third and last part of Человек-амфибия, probably around 75% of the book. Six chapters to go and I'm freeeeeee!!!
I like the book, really good, full of adventures and twists and turns and at the same time I'm anxious to finish it because I'm close to the burnout, I'm fed up to look for words constantly in the dictionary and I want to read something easier, so that not to be constantly out of my confort zone.


Good going! 8-) Have you finished the book yet? Did you find the number of dictionary lookups dropping much as you progressed through the book?
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Postby Arnaud » Mon Jul 31, 2017 7:43 pm

neofight78 wrote:Good going! 8-) Have you finished the book yet? Did you find the number of dictionary lookups dropping much as you progressed through the book?

Not yet, I've still 2 chapters to read, I think I'll have finished the novel at the end of the week, if everything goes fine.
I'll reach the symbolic figure of 2000 unknown words in 2 or 3 pages (still about 20 pages to read).
Well, about the lookups: I got used to verbs of motion into the water, descriptions of landscapes, sea creatures/plants/mouvements of waves/stuff about fishing, treasure, psychological descriptions (irritated, astonished, etc) and physical descriptions : all that is memorised and I don't need anymore to look up all that in the dictionary. (At the beginning of the book, after a few chapters, I was expecting to search for more than 3000 words and finally I think I'll have searched only about 2300, so obviously the percentage of unknown words has dropped during the reading.)
At the end of the book, there are two chapters (one with "the bishop" and one at the tribunal) that were probably the toughest of the book, so I can't say that the end of the book was easier than the beginning: at soon as I stumble upon an unknow subject, it's a massive search in the dictionary: religion/justice/surgery/evolution are not subjects I read often about, even in french, so in russian it's a disaster.
During all the book, I've suffered a lot on participles and verbs ending with -ечь/-ти (I don't know how to conjugate them): often I didn't recognise the verbs and had to search on my phone for the infinitive. I've read several times my grammar books and made exercises about participles while I was reading the novel, but I'm afraid it was not super efficient. One positive thing is that apart from the participles, the grammar was pretty transparent: declensions, words order and verbs aspect (when known) are immediatly recognised, I don't have to ask myself "what is that declension?" or "where is the subject of that sentence?", from the grammatical point of view all is rather clear and I can read "confortably" when I know the vocabulary.
Given that I've started to read the novel more than 2 months ago, the word "confortably" has to be taken with a grain of salt, of course ;), it's still a slow and painful process, nothing to be compared with english or french where I can read 170 pages in a few days.
Pardon my english... ;)
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Re: Arnaud's lazy log (Russian & co)

Postby neofight78 » Tue Aug 01, 2017 12:53 pm

Nearly there then! It may have been a struggle but it sounds like you've gained quite a lot of new words, and found some grammar gaps that need plugging. I read my first book in 6 weeks but that was using a pop dictionary rather than a paper one, so 2 months seems pretty good to me!

Maybe take a rest to sort out the burnout and swat up on some conjugations in the meantime, and then come back for another round of Беляев later. It'll get easier each time!
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Re: Arnaud's lazy log (Russian & co)

Postby Arnaud » Thu Aug 03, 2017 5:01 pm

Russian:
I've finished Человек-амфибия : ImageImage
Прощай, Ихтиандр!

68 days of reading and a list of around 2100 words that I've looked in the dictionary.
I'll have to learn them in a way or another, I don't know yet what I'm going to do with all these words: I already know a part of them (the most frequent ones that I had to write several times), perhaps I'll try to make an intelligent selection of the others and learn them by rote.
Anyway, I think I'll read the book again later, in a year or two, because I know it's very beneficial for me to read again, a lot of details are generally better understood, things are deepened.

I'm going to take a break and rest a little on the language front side. I've not decided yet what I'm going to read after that. Not a book by Беляев, I need a little change. I've considered Обломов (a classic: I've an abridged version annotated in french with a lot of explanations on the language and culture of that time, it should be interesting but perhaps a little difficult), Гиперболоид инженера Гарина (a sci-fi book that seems easy), a detective book (I have several of them in my magical cardboard)
I don't know yet, I just want to find a book that I won't give up (a bad habit I have with russian books)

Japanese:
I've finished Michel Thomas Foundation Course and started the Advanced course.

German:
I've read the German Study group thread and watched a detective movie: I absolutly understood nothing although I've several times tried to learn that language (studied Assimil, Deutsch Warum Nicht, etc). I've done that after my brother told me a little anecdote: he regularly meets a homeless who is often drunk and asks him for money: being fed up of refusing in french almost everyday, he told him "Entschuldigen Sie, ich verstehe nicht, ich spreche Deutsch" (the only phrase he can say in german, but he can understand "phrasebook" german)...What do you think happened: the guy answered him with a perfect german accent and asked him for money in german :lol:
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Re:

Postby neofight78 » Thu Aug 03, 2017 6:00 pm

Arnaud wrote:I've finished Человек-амфибия : ImageImage


Absolutely worth celebrating, good job! :D

Arnaud wrote:...I was expecting to search for more than 3000 words and finally I think I'll have searched only about 2300, so obviously the percentage of unknown words has dropped during the reading.


Presumably this means you've learned 700 words or thereabouts?

Arnaud wrote:68 days of reading and a list of around 2100 words that I've looked in the dictionary.
I'll have to learn them in a way or another, I don't know yet what I'm going to do with all these words: I already know a part of them (the most frequent ones that I had to write several times), perhaps I'll try to make an intelligent selection of the others and learn them by rote.


I'd wouldn't bother learning any of them as you already picked up a good number of words already. Anything important will come round again sooner or later. If you feel you have to learn some take, say the top 100, most frequent words and learn those.

Arnaud wrote:Гиперболоид инженера Гарина


On my to read list also. If you pick it, I'll be interested to know what you think.
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Re: Re:

Postby Arnaud » Thu Aug 03, 2017 6:31 pm

neofight78 wrote:Absolutely worth celebrating, good job! :D
Thanks !! ;)

neofight78 wrote:Presumably this means you've learned 700 words or thereabouts?
Hum, way too optimistic, imho. I write all kind of stuff in my notebook: conjugation of verbs/participles, one member of the imperfective/perfective pair (forgot the other), adjectives that I constantly forget...etc. There is a lot of repetitions in what I write, so half that figure is probably closer to the truth.
But at the end of the book, I really felt well, it was far easier than at the beginning. I can't really quantify my progresses but I've the feeling that I read the cyrillic better: as in english or french, I don't need anymore to decipher, I can predict more or less the words by reading a few letters, so I'm reading faster. The structure of the sentences are more or less predictible, no problem with the words order (I won't say that the words order is fixed in russian, it's not true, but I often see the same predictible patterns again and again). So the progresses are not only on the words count, it's general.
Or perhaps I'm getting used to the style of беляев and when I'll read another author, the difficulties will come back...I don't know, we'll see...

neofight78 wrote:I'd wouldn't bother learning any of them as you already picked up a good number of words already. Anything important will come round again sooner or later. If you feel you have to learn some take, say the top 100, most frequent words and learn those.
Yeah, that's usually what I do, but I feel a little guilty of not working as seriously as I should :lol: . Let's take the top 100 :mrgreen:

neofight78 wrote:
Arnaud wrote:Гиперболоид инженера Гарина


On my to read list also. If you pick it, I'll be interested to know what you think.
I think you'll have read it before I start it, you read so fast compared to me... :lol:
I'll be interested to know what you think of it, when you pick it :mrgreen:
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Re: Arnaud's lazy log (Russian & co)

Postby Arnaud » Sat Aug 05, 2017 8:56 pm

Arnaud wrote:Гиперболоид инженера Гарина (a sci-fi book that seems easy is horribly difficult !!!)
Ah ah ah, qu'est-ce que chui con, des fois.. :lol:
J'ai lu les cinq premiers chapitres et chui à plus de 12% de mots inconnus, plein de problèmes de compréhension dans les rares dialogues qui émaillent des descriptions sans fin...Pour l'instant chui complétement à l'ouest, c'est l'horreur.
Donc soit je persiste et je sens que je vais en chier pendant 130 chapitres, soit j'arrête immédiatement et je reprends mon Беляев adoré.
Le seul point positif est que les chapitres sont super courts, pas plus de 2 pages, donc je peux essayer de passer sans trop forcer en en lisant un par jour. 130 jours, vous voyez le tableau...je serai mort avant, nan ? :lol:
Pardon my french :mrgreen:
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Re: Arnaud's lazy log (Russian & co)

Postby Arnaud » Thu Aug 17, 2017 6:07 am

Russian:
- I've read 10% of Гиперболоид инженера Гарина. Well, I don't know if I want to continue, the book is not bad but it's too difficult for my current level (around 8% of uw) and it's not exactly a masterpiece (but I'm reading it too slowly to really appreciate it: sci-fi books are made for fast-pace reading, not spending one hour on one page after having searched 40 unknow words). Plus, I've noticed that the edition I was reading was different from the audiobook I've found. A little search on Wikipedia showed that the author wrote 4 versions of his book, cutting here, adding there, so I had to change of edition to follow the audio.
- I definitively have an enormous problem of understanding when I listen to audiobooks, so I've started again to work on Человек-амфибия, as I have a complete list of the vocabulary. I try to listen a chapter until I can understand it, sometimes I read aloud repeating after the speaker when I place the stress on the wrong place in my head.
- That neverending list of unknown vocab is depressing : On Italki someone asked the question "what's the difference between скрыться, спрятаться and прибрать?" And I could ask that kind of questions for a ton of verbs I meet everyday: which verb in which context ? What's the subtle difference between this and that ? Generally I don't have the answer. It's frustrating. Russian is frustrating and the more I progress the more I feel my knowledge of that language is superficial and fragile. Something definitively didn't work, but I don't know what: perhaps the lack of teachers to explain why this and not that. I've too many unanswered questions and they keep on accumulating.
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