Arnaud's lazy log (Russian & co)

[reineke]

Russian:
I've read again the 7 first chapters of Голова профессора Доуэля in 2 days only: rather a good pace when I don't have to look for the vocab in the dictionary.

By Jove, I think he's got it!

[neofight78]

Russian:
I've read again the 7 first chapters of Голова профессора Доуэля in 2 days only: rather a good pace when I don't have to look for the vocab in the dictionary. I'm starting the 8th chapter with 5.4% of unknown words, about the same percentage as in Человек-амфибия.

That's pretty good going! I'll be interested to see how you get on from chapter 8 onwards.

[smallwhite]

I'm waiting to see your exploit

And so I did go look at Russian again. What exactly are you hoping to see me do or achieve?

And since you seem to have plenty of statistics on wordcount - how many words do you think you need in Russian compared to German or Greek? If it took me X hours to reach 90% word-coverage in German or Greek, how many hours do you think it will take for Russian? German vocabulary is the most nightmarish I have experienced so far

[Arnaud]

And so I did go look at Russian again. What exactly are you hoping to see me do or achieve?

- I expect nothing of you and I don't want you to learn russian just to prove me you're right and I'm wrong, that would be ridiculous. That's just you try to compare the learning of greek and russian without having the experience of russian, that's a problem for me. In my log, I only share my experience, I don't try to make mathematical projections like "I learned russian in X years", so I'll learn "german in X years" (btw, I tried to learn german and it's a complete failure). If you can replace the word "years" by "months" or "weeks", it's very well for you, I don't deny you the fact that you seem gifted and well organised when my method is at best amateurish and often not efficient.
- I don't have "plenty statistics on wordcount": I have a paper notebook on which I write 32 words per page. At the end of a book, I just count the number of pages I used and multiply by 32, that's all. I don't need wordcount to feel how difficult or easy a book is, I feel it almost immediatly because I've tried to read a lot of books and I can estimate rapidly the difficulties I'm going to have.

[smallwhite]

- I expect nothing of you and I don't want you to learn russian just to prove me you're right and I'm wrong, that would be ridiculous.

When you said, "I'm waiting to see your exploit "
I thought you wanted to see me learn Russian and to see something during the process. If not then what do you want to see?

And when you said prove right or wrong - right or wrong in what? I don't think I'm debating anything. What are you debating with me??

So, why did you want me to learn Russian? What did you want to see when you said, "I'm waiting to see your exploit "?

That's just you try to compare the learning of greek and russian without having the experience of russian, that's a problem for me.

But that was not what I was comparing! I was comparing my Quizlet'ing words to your not doing so. I even capitalised it:
"... I'm doing it differently from you in Greek. ... I have 1406 words looked up AND every single one Quizlet'ed."

I also included my time spent and the % coverage so far, because some people think that flashcards take a lot of time and that wordlists are useless to learn.

You can use Quizlet whether you're learning Russian or Greek or another language. I did not feel that I have to be learning Russian in order to mention Quizlet.

I don't have "plenty statistics on wordcount": ...

You do and they are useful information! For example you wrote,

> I've calculated that around 5% of the words are now unknown (vs 10% at the beginning).
and
> Myself after having read Assimil ... which gives about 7500 words and the textbook of Patapova which gives 8000 words, I was unable to read children books.

Especially when you have experience in German. So how do you think Russian vocabulary compares to German? Which is harder? Or the same? And Greek?

[aaleks]

I also included my time spent and the % coverage so far, because some people think that flashcards take a lot of time and that wordlists are useless to learn.

Do you want to prove to those people or to yourself that it's not true? I think that flashcards and wordlists are not an effective way to learn words for me. At the same time I truly believe that for many others these approaches are very effective.

Btw, for me there was no difference between learning German and English words.

[smallwhite]

I also included my time spent and the % coverage so far, because some people think that flashcards take a lot of time and that wordlists are useless to learn.

Do you want to prove to those people or to yourself that it's not true? I think that flashcards and wordlists are not an effective way to learn words for me. At the same time I truly believe that for many others these approaches are very effective.

If a person already has a conclusion then he doesn't need information from me. So my information is for those who do not yet have a conclusion.

English was easier for me because it was taught and used in school since Kintergarten. German was a loooot harder.

[Xmmm]

I also included my time spent and the % coverage so far, because some people think that flashcards take a lot of time and that wordlists are useless to learn.

Do you want to prove to those people or to yourself that it's not true? I think that flashcards and wordlists are not an effective way to learn words for me. At the same time I truly believe that for many others these approaches are very effective.

If a person already has a conclusion then he doesn't need information from me. So my information is for those who do not yet have a conclusion.

English was easier for me because it was taught and used in school since Kintergarten. German was a loooot harder.

What I think is odd is that you have a method that seems to work for you, and it is a method you recommend to others ... and at the same time you are very coy about all the operational details.

Based on the info provided in your various posts I don't think any beginner could follow in your footsteps with any confidence they were doing it correctly.

For example you say the 5000 words have to be wisely chosen, but elsewhere you have said it is not a frequency list and that you make your own lists. Well right there, that is a deal killer. If I can't grab a frequency list and I have to be wise about a list of words in a language I don't know ...

Then you say you don't use srs, but you do use quizlet? Which I think is srs. I may be mixed up about that, but if I am mixed up I don't think that is my fault. I understand the glossika method, the clozemaster method the fsi method, and even the crazy original lr method ... because they were all clearly defined.

It's also not clear to me ... you can read these languages. What about listening comprehension? I can see you getting to b2 in six months in reading but about other skills?

You seem to be a super logical person, so it's very weird to me that you would promote what sounds like a logical system to people, and provide almost no details to implement it.

Again, I went through 4976 french flashcards on lingvist and was surprised how easily I could read french in just four months or so ... with certain caveats abut picking straightforward material. So to the extent that what I did resembles what you do, I get it.

But I tried a frequency list in russian and didn't get nearly the same results. And besides, you apparently don't use frequency lists so I'm still in the dark about what you do exactly.

[smallwhite]

What I think is odd is that you have a method that seems to work for you, and it is a method you recommend to others ... and at the same time you are very coy about all the operational details.

I had to look up the word "coy" because I couldn't believe you felt I was secretive etc about my methods. I thought I was always on about them and too preachy already Just the other day I noticed that I'd written 11xx posts here which made up 1.48% of total forum posts, so every 68th post was mine when we have 5xxx members. How horrible, I thought, I need to shut up and let others talk!


> Based on the info provided in your various posts I don't think any beginner could follow in your footsteps with any confidence they were doing it correctly.

But I was addressing Arnaud and Arnaud is no beginner. And I wasn't trying to educate him


> For example you say the 5000 words have to be wisely chosen, but elsewhere you have said it is not a frequency list and that you make your own lists. Well right there, that is a deal killer. If I can't grab a frequency list and I have to be wise about a list of words in a language I don't know ...
> Then you say you don't use srs, but you do use quizlet? Which I think is srs. I may be mixed up about that, but if I am mixed up I don't think that is my fault. I understand the glossika method, the clozemaster method the fsi method, and even the crazy original lr method ... because they were all clearly defined.

I do use SRS! I use it so much I was seen as bad influence 5 years ago. Since then I've learnt to be more subtle about it. And I do use Quizlet! There's probably only 1 thread on Quizlet on this forum and it was started by me. But Quizlet has no SRS. What I don't use is Anki. And then about 2 weeks ago I described how I "plug holes" with frequency lists. A bit before that I described how I drill conjugation with 501-verbs books. I wrote a very detailed post for rdearman about how I listen-with-transcript. But it's the same as Ari's Chinesepod method anyway, which I link to every time the occasion arises. That sounds so nagging already Coy? Boy!


> It's also not clear to me ... you can read these languages. What about listening comprehension? I can see you getting to b2 in six months in reading but about other skills?

Arnaud was talking about reading, I was talking about reading, so I don't know what listening has to do with this. Per Dialang etc, I had B2 listening in FR, ES, IT, DE, SV, NL. Would likely be B2 or above in English and Mandarin as well.

Greek I scored B1 in all 5 Dialang tests last month when testing for rdearman's Study.

How come people can talk about their methods without even having a forum profile, yet I need to explain my credentials on top of already having a profile?


> You seem to be a super logical person, so it's very weird to me that you would promote what sounds like a logical system to people, and provide almost no details to implement it.

1.48% of this forum is me already!


>Again, I went through 4976 french flashcards on lingvist and was surprised how easily I could read french in just four months or so ... with certain caveats abut picking straightforward material. So to the extent that what I did resembles what you do, I get it.
>But I tried a frequency list in russian and didn't get nearly the same results. And besides, you apparently don't use frequency lists so I'm still in the dark about what you do exactly.

As above.

PS. Not only do I write about my methods, I help people implement them - I start New Year's Resolutions threads every year, bump them every quarter-end, and I start 6WC threads, too.

[Xmmm]

What I think is odd is that you have a method that seems to work for you, and it is a method you recommend to others ... and at the same time you are very coy about all the operational details.

I had to look up the word "coy" because I couldn't believe you felt I was secretive etc about my methods. I thought I was always on about them and too nagging already Just the other day I noticed that I'd written 11xx posts here which made up 1.48% of total forum posts, so every 68th post was mine when we have 5xxx members. How horrible, I thought, I need to shut up and let others talk!


> Based on the info provided in your various posts I don't think any beginner could follow in your footsteps with any confidence they were doing it correctly.

But I was addressing Arnaud and Arnaud is no beginner. And I wasn't trying to educate him


> For example you say the 5000 words have to be wisely chosen, but elsewhere you have said it is not a frequency list and that you make your own lists. Well right there, that is a deal killer. If I can't grab a frequency list and I have to be wise about a list of words in a language I don't know ...
> Then you say you don't use srs, but you do use quizlet? Which I think is srs. I may be mixed up about that, but if I am mixed up I don't think that is my fault. I understand the glossika method, the clozemaster method the fsi method, and even the crazy original lr method ... because they were all clearly defined.

I do use SRS! I use it so much I was seen as bad influence 5 years ago. Since then I've learnt to be more subtle about it. And I do use Quizlet! There's probably only 1 thread on Quizlet on this forum and it was started by me. But Quizlet has no SRS. What I don't use is Anki. And then about 2 weeks ago I described how I "plug holes" with frequency lists. A bit before that I described how I drill conjugation with 501-verbs books. I wrote a very detailed post for rdearman about how I listen-with-transcript. But it's the same as Ari's Chinesepod method anyway, which I link to every time the occasion arises. That sounds so nagging already Coy? Boy!


> It's also not clear to me ... you can read these languages. What about listening comprehension? I can see you getting to b2 in six months in reading but about other skills?

Arnaud was talking about reading, I was talking about reading, so I don't know what listening has to do with this. Per Dialang etc, I had B2 listening in FR, ES, IT, DE, SV, NL. Would likely be B2 or above in English and Mandarin as well.

Greek I scored B1 in all 5 Dialang tests last month when testing for rdearman's Study.

How come people can talk about their methods without even having a forum profile, yet I need to explain my credentials on top of already having a profile?


> You seem to be a super logical person, so it's very weird to me that you would promote what sounds like a logical system to people, and provide almost no details to implement it.

1.48% of this forum is me already!


>Again, I went through 4976 french flashcards on lingvist and was surprised how easily I could read french in just four months or so ... with certain caveats abut picking straightforward material. So to the extent that what I did resembles what you do, I get it.
>But I tried a frequency list in russian and didn't get nearly the same results. And besides, you apparently don't use frequency lists so I'm still in the dark about what you do exactly.

As above.

PS. Not only do I write about my methods, I help people implement them - I start New Year's Resolutions threads every year, bump them every quarter-end, and I start 6WC threads, too.

Let's try again. These magic lists of 5000 wisely chosen words that are not frequency lists ... where do you get them?