Montmorency's Log (CY, DE, NO) + (Celtic {Team) Nordic} + SC 2016-7

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Montmorency
Blue Belt
Posts: 935
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2015 3:01 pm
Location: Oxfordshire, UK
Languages: English (Native)
Maintaining: German (active skills lapsed somewhat).
Studying: Welsh (advanced beginner/intermediate);
Re-started: Norwegian ("false" beginner (?))
Back-burner: Spanish (intermediate) Danish (beginner).

Have studied: Latin, French, Italian, Dutch; OT Hebrew (briefly) NT Greek (briefly); Norwegian (superficially).
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1429
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Montmorency's Log (CY, DE, NO) + (Celtic {Team) Nordic} + SC 2016-7

Postby Montmorency » Fri Oct 09, 2015 6:10 pm

The last time I was logging with anything like regularity on HTLAL, I had rather put German on the back-burner to concentrate on Welsh, which I learned pretty much exclusively through the Say Something in Welsh original Courses ("Course1", "Course2", and "Course3").

Since then, they have produced a second generation of these courses, which they are referring to as "Level1" and (so far) "Level 2".
I have done pretty much all they have produced of those, and much seems familiar, although some is new.

I had also started reading fairly seriously, having finished all the members of the "Nofelau Nawr" series of learner books that I could find, I've read a couple of Bethan Gwanas's books for adults, using plenty of dictionary look-up, but they didn't go too badly. And some other odds and ends of reading.
I listen to Radio Cymru and watch S4C (via the internet) reasonably frequently, talk to a small group of fellow learners via Skype on a weekly basis (we stick to an hour or less), and in April, went on my 2nd SSiW "Bootcamp", where you live with about 9 other people entirely through the medium of Welsh - challenging but fun.

Real life has got in the way a few times to knock me off course language-wise, but I have usually gradually got back on course, and I'm now slightly seriously getting back into German. I go to a conversation group with 2-3 other learners plus a native speaker/teacher, which is very good, but doesn't meet all that often. I've started listing to podcasts from WDR again (e.g. "Das Philosophische Radio"), and I was glad to notice that although rusty, I could still cope with a fair amount of the vocabulary. And just for fun, I occasionally dip into one of my collection of Erich Kästner's children's books.

One thing I hope to get back into before too long is working on another parallel text. I've done this for relatively short books before, but I want to try this from something a bit longer and perhaps more demanding: a classic(ish) text. I've got a couple in mind. The basic tool I will be using will be the freeware Aglona Reader, and because I don't have translations of these texts, I will have to use Google Translate to do the crude translation, and then refine it as I go along. That is the theory. I have actually done that kind of thing before, but not for a complete book of any size. It takes "forever", but I think it is a worthwhile effort. From previous experience, when you finish, you do know the book quite well! :-)

What else? Well, in May we went to Cuba, and beforehand, I took the opportunity of trying out the Say Something In Spanish course. I had done Spanish reasonably intensively before, but not touched it for some years. None of the SSiS course was new (I only had time to do the Level 1), but it did help to refresh it in a way that I have found worked quite well in Welsh,so why not also in Spanish. Spanish is on the back-burner again, but I will revive it again before next January as we are going to Lanzarote.

Sadly, Danish remains on the back-burner still, but I hope to revive this soon, and I think it will be by L-R-ing some of Jussi Adler-Olsen's books. I used to enjoy doing this before, and would like to get back to it. I had most of the Department Q books in English, German, and Danish, although at least one new one has come out since then.
Last edited by Montmorency on Sat Jun 25, 2016 10:18 am, edited 16 times in total.
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Montmorency
Blue Belt
Posts: 935
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2015 3:01 pm
Location: Oxfordshire, UK
Languages: English (Native)
Maintaining: German (active skills lapsed somewhat).
Studying: Welsh (advanced beginner/intermediate);
Re-started: Norwegian ("false" beginner (?))
Back-burner: Spanish (intermediate) Danish (beginner).

Have studied: Latin, French, Italian, Dutch; OT Hebrew (briefly) NT Greek (briefly); Norwegian (superficially).
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1429
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Re: Montmorency's rather intermittent Log (CY, DE, ES, DK(?),...?)

Postby Montmorency » Fri Oct 09, 2015 6:16 pm

Friday/Freitag 9. Oktober 2015 Deutsch

Listened to
wdr5dasphilosophischeradio_2015-10-02_gratwanderungethikimpolizeiberufsendungvom02102015_wdr5 and
wdr5dasphilosophischeradio_2015-09-25_sinnvollgenutztvomumgangmitderlebenszeitsendungvom25092015_wdr5
(just over 50 min each)

Approx 2 hours conversation with teacher plus 2 other learners.

Edit:

Dydd Gwener (Friday) 9 Hydref 2015 Cymraeg

Listened to podcast: OrBae-20150918-CorbynAGrymYrUndebau ( about 27 minutes) which is the podcast version of the regular programme "O'r Bae" which is a regular weekly summary of politics in Wales, and sometimes of national (UK) politics. In this case it was about Jeremy Corbyn, new leader of the UK Labour Party.
"Bae" refers to Cardiff Bay, which is the location of the Welsh Assembly and the devolved Welsh Government (which doesn't have quite as much power as the devolved Scottish Government? Why not? Simply because the powers that be in Westminster (referred to as "San Steffan" in Welsh) are more afraid of the Scottish than the Welsh. If you were to say that perhaps the Welsh should shout as loud as the Scottish, then who would I be to disagree with you, but, while you may say that, I could not possibly comment (to quote Frances Urquhart ).
Last edited by Montmorency on Mon Oct 19, 2015 10:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Montmorency
Blue Belt
Posts: 935
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2015 3:01 pm
Location: Oxfordshire, UK
Languages: English (Native)
Maintaining: German (active skills lapsed somewhat).
Studying: Welsh (advanced beginner/intermediate);
Re-started: Norwegian ("false" beginner (?))
Back-burner: Spanish (intermediate) Danish (beginner).

Have studied: Latin, French, Italian, Dutch; OT Hebrew (briefly) NT Greek (briefly); Norwegian (superficially).
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1429
x 895

Re: Montmorency's rather intermittent Log (CY, DE, ES, DK(?),...?)

Postby Montmorency » Sat Oct 10, 2015 10:18 pm

Dydd Sadwrn (Saturday) 10 Hydref (October) 2015 - Cymraeg

Listened to podcasts (from Radio Cymru):

OrBae-20150925
OrBae-20150927

About 27 minutes each.

As before, political summary from Wales and if anything interesting happening, also from UK national politics. More on Jeremy Corbyn.

Prepared for and then had conversation via Skype with 4 other learners (all SSiW students). I stayed for 45 minutes, then had to leave.
One had been to a SSiW "Bootcamp" and reported back (and her Welsh was great in my opinion ... SSiW and "Bootcamp" really works).

If you want to actually speak Welsh, then SSiW is really the way to go. If you only want to read it or compose Cynghanedd (strict metre poetry) then it might be a different thing, but even then, SSiW won't do you any harm and will probably do you a lot of good.

Am I biased? probably, but with good reason.
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Montmorency
Blue Belt
Posts: 935
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2015 3:01 pm
Location: Oxfordshire, UK
Languages: English (Native)
Maintaining: German (active skills lapsed somewhat).
Studying: Welsh (advanced beginner/intermediate);
Re-started: Norwegian ("false" beginner (?))
Back-burner: Spanish (intermediate) Danish (beginner).

Have studied: Latin, French, Italian, Dutch; OT Hebrew (briefly) NT Greek (briefly); Norwegian (superficially).
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1429
x 895

Re: Montmorency's rather intermittent Log (CY, DE, ES, DK(?),...?)

Postby Montmorency » Sun Oct 11, 2015 8:15 pm

Sonntag 11. Oktober 2015 - Deutsch

Listened to wdr5dasphilosophischeradio_2015-09-04_raumfuerutopiendietheoriederweltraumfahrtsendungvom04092015_wdr5.mp3 (~55min).

Dydd Sul 11 (yr unfed ar ddeg - 11eg) Hydref 2015 - Cymraeg

Not much today. Wrote short email to fellow SSiW Skypwr who is from the USA, but is currently touring Wales and later, Scotland. She also speaks/learns Scottish Gaelic (not with SSi - there is no SSiG course so far). She has only limited internet access, but has managed to keep in touch, and has also met a couple of SSiW Skypwyr while in Cymru.

Update: Thought I should listen to some Welsh, so: GariWyn-20151005-GariWyn05102015.mp3 (~25 m)

This is a regular programme about business in Wales. This week, Gari was in Bangor, north-west Wales. He spoke to a couple running a pub ("tafarn"), and also a chap from Landeilo in the south. He didn't sound all that southern to me, so maybe has been influenced by the local accent. I think Gari himself must be a northerner (although I can't always tell for sure). He talks extremely quickly!
Last edited by Montmorency on Mon Oct 19, 2015 10:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Montmorency
Blue Belt
Posts: 935
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2015 3:01 pm
Location: Oxfordshire, UK
Languages: English (Native)
Maintaining: German (active skills lapsed somewhat).
Studying: Welsh (advanced beginner/intermediate);
Re-started: Norwegian ("false" beginner (?))
Back-burner: Spanish (intermediate) Danish (beginner).

Have studied: Latin, French, Italian, Dutch; OT Hebrew (briefly) NT Greek (briefly); Norwegian (superficially).
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1429
x 895

Re: Montmorency's rather intermittent Log (CY, DE, ES, DK(?),...?)

Postby Montmorency » Mon Oct 12, 2015 9:31 am

Dydd Llun (Monday) 12fed Hydref (October) 2015 - Cymraeg

GariWyn-20150921-GariWyn21092015.mp3 (~25 min)

Gari Wyn-again, begin-again.... (memories of a childhood song creeping in.. :-) )

More business news from Wales. Usually concentrating on small businesses (since those tend to be the usual businesses in Wales, so far as I can judge - I live in Lloegr (England)).

GariWyn-20150928-GariWyn28092015 (~26 min)

About the fitness industry.

Edit: GariWyn-20151012-GariWynHanesCymru12102015.mp3 (~26 min)

Another Gari Wyn programme, but this time about the teaching of Welsh history in school. He interviewed teachers and A level students (17-18 year olds). I noticed he was speaking a bit more slowly, possibly for the benefit of the school students, although those we heard seemed pretty fluent.

(Didn't manage to squeeze in any German today. Pity. Am going to try to do some Welsh and some German each day, whenever possible).
Last edited by Montmorency on Tue Oct 13, 2015 11:16 am, edited 2 times in total.
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geoffw
Orange Belt
Posts: 193
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2015 3:15 pm
Languages: Speak well = English (N), Deutsch
Speak poorly = יידיש (Yiddish), Français, Esperanto
"Speak," I guess = עברית (Hebrew), Русский (Russian), Nederlands
Actively study = Polski
Still remember a lot = Gaeilge
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Re: Montmorency's rather intermittent Log (CY, DE, ES, DK(?),...?)

Postby geoffw » Mon Oct 12, 2015 3:52 pm

What led you to be interested in Danish? I've (very) recently had a rekindling of interest in the Nordic languages and been considering putting in a little quick study/refresher myself. My previous focus (a decade ago) was Norwegian, but now it seems that all my internet polyglot friends are doing Danish, so maybe I should start there. I've also had far more listening practice so far in Danish, and I suspect that if I can figure that out, then learning to understand No/Se would be simple by comparison.
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Montmorency
Blue Belt
Posts: 935
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2015 3:01 pm
Location: Oxfordshire, UK
Languages: English (Native)
Maintaining: German (active skills lapsed somewhat).
Studying: Welsh (advanced beginner/intermediate);
Re-started: Norwegian ("false" beginner (?))
Back-burner: Spanish (intermediate) Danish (beginner).

Have studied: Latin, French, Italian, Dutch; OT Hebrew (briefly) NT Greek (briefly); Norwegian (superficially).
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1429
x 895

Re: Montmorency's rather intermittent Log (CY, DE, ES, DK(?),...?)

Postby Montmorency » Tue Oct 13, 2015 11:14 am

geoffw wrote:What led you to be interested in Danish? I've (very) recently had a rekindling of interest in the Nordic languages and been considering putting in a little quick study/refresher myself. My previous focus (a decade ago) was Norwegian, but now it seems that all my internet polyglot friends are doing Danish, so maybe I should start there. I've also had far more listening practice so far in Danish, and I suspect that if I can figure that out, then learning to understand No/Se would be simple by comparison.



Hi Geoff,

Well, good question without a short answer. My wife has always been interested in anything Scandinavian (since before we were married) and has indirectly influenced me to be very pro-Scandinavian (and I have met many nice Scandinavians on my own account, although always in an English speaking context). Then we got into the whole Scandinavian "noir" thing...Wallander from Sweden, then "The Killing" and "Borgen" from Denmark, then "The Bridge" from Sweden/Denmark, and a few other things. (Most recently we've had a version of "Martin Beck" from Swedish TV...think it's a few years old, but new here. My wife had read the original books years ago).

Several years ago, we planned a trip to Oslo, and we were going to go via Copenhagen and Sweden (Ystad, and pay homage to "Wallander"). We planned it about a year in advance, and I figured I had time to get somewhat up to speed with Norwegian which I tried to do with TYS Norwegian (book and CDs). I had read it was a useful bridge language between the 3 main Scandinavian countries, so it seemed like the right one to go for. I perhaps didn't put in sufficient time, although I did work my way through most of the book..

As you probably know written Bokmål Norwegian is very close to written Danish, and I was pleased that I could read a lot of public signs, etc, in Copenhagen when we got there. (The spoken language was another matter). When we finally got to Oslo, I didn't have much luck with the spoken language, but I could manage quite a bit of the newspapers.

At some point after we got back I thought I would give Danish a go, since I thought it was the country I was most likely to visit again, as it is the closest (and at that time, there was a ferry service from Harwich to Esbjerg - sadly now closed, and I'm not keen on flying).

So I got a TYS Danish (book and CD) and noticed of course how close it was to Norwegian, so a lot seemed familiar (except the pronunciation). Later on I subscribed to the "Copenhagencast" podcasts, and then I got into Danish audiobooks (well, just Jussi Adler-Olsen really). I have the German-based Danish Assimil somewhere which I never really started, but that's waiting for me when I do get around to starting again.

As you may know, an English speaker doesn't really get too many clues from written Danish about pronunciation, so that is a real challenge. The audiobooks helped somewhat, but I'm not sure how that knowledge would translate to real life. "Copenhagencast" was better for that, although it wasn't really a formal course.

I cannot really speak from experience, since I never got beyond beginner stage (although I hope I will one day), but my guess is that the best approach with the nordic languages is to learn one as thoroughly as you can ... whichever one appeals to you most, I suppose, and then, as you say, the others should not seem so difficult after that, and the written language in particular, should not present too many difficulties. But that is only really my guess.

Iversen is obviously the expert here, and I think he says, like most Scandinavians, he doesn't go out of his way to be able to speak the "other" languages (Swedish or Norwegian in his case), but he can understand them (and he might make an effort if necessary to understand them well). I gather this is more a matter of principle than anything else, but I don't want to put words into his mouth.

BTW, I thought that knowing a fair bit German would help me with Danish, and I suppose it did, but not much more, if any, than already knowing English. It's certainly not a free pass.

BTW Geoff, if I may ask, which country are you in? I thought at first the UK, but from something you said on SSiW, I'm now thinking you are in the USA. Is that correct?
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geoffw
Orange Belt
Posts: 193
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2015 3:15 pm
Languages: Speak well = English (N), Deutsch
Speak poorly = יידיש (Yiddish), Français, Esperanto
"Speak," I guess = עברית (Hebrew), Русский (Russian), Nederlands
Actively study = Polski
Still remember a lot = Gaeilge
x 312

Re: Montmorency's rather intermittent Log (CY, DE, ES, DK(?),...?)

Postby geoffw » Wed Oct 14, 2015 10:54 am

Yes, I'm in the US.I may have tried to say something like that in my introduction yn y Gymraeg.
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Montmorency
Blue Belt
Posts: 935
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2015 3:01 pm
Location: Oxfordshire, UK
Languages: English (Native)
Maintaining: German (active skills lapsed somewhat).
Studying: Welsh (advanced beginner/intermediate);
Re-started: Norwegian ("false" beginner (?))
Back-burner: Spanish (intermediate) Danish (beginner).

Have studied: Latin, French, Italian, Dutch; OT Hebrew (briefly) NT Greek (briefly); Norwegian (superficially).
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1429
x 895

Re: Montmorency's rather intermittent Log (CY, DE, ES, DK(?),...?)

Postby Montmorency » Wed Oct 14, 2015 11:29 am

geoffw wrote:Yes, I'm in the US.I may have tried to say something like that in my introduction yn y Gymraeg.


Aha...mae'n ddwrg gen i. On i wedi anghofio lle darllenes i fo. :-)
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Montmorency
Blue Belt
Posts: 935
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2015 3:01 pm
Location: Oxfordshire, UK
Languages: English (Native)
Maintaining: German (active skills lapsed somewhat).
Studying: Welsh (advanced beginner/intermediate);
Re-started: Norwegian ("false" beginner (?))
Back-burner: Spanish (intermediate) Danish (beginner).

Have studied: Latin, French, Italian, Dutch; OT Hebrew (briefly) NT Greek (briefly); Norwegian (superficially).
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1429
x 895

Re: Montmorency's rather intermittent Log (CY, DE, ES, DK(?),...?)

Postby Montmorency » Wed Oct 14, 2015 7:27 pm

Dydd Mercher (Wednesday) 14eg (y pedwerydd ar ddeg) Hydref 2015 - Cymraeg

Dan_yr_Wyneb_gyda_Dylan_Iorwerth_-_12_10_2015_b06h8vkl_default (48 min)

"Dan yr Wyneb" means "under the surface" ("wyneb" can also mean "face").
Dylan Iorwerth is the presenter (sounds like a northern speaker to me), and he discusses one or more subjects with one or more guests, and the premise is that they get beyond the "headlines" and get to the heart of the matter. I like this kind of programme because the host and guest(s) are batting question and answers between each other and they have to think on their feet, and that can slow them down a little which can help the learner listener, and the speech is perhaps more natural than if it were entirely scripted. (The speakers will have come prepared, of course).

The topics are usually of specific interest to Wales, although sometimes they are more general. Today was partly about robots, and partly about the Welsh language.

I'm thinking of changing the way I listen to podcasts. Well, this will be by way of an experiment. I will try it out for a bit before writing about it, in case it turns out to be a rubbish idea. :-)

Edit:

Mittwoch 14. Oktober 2015 - Deutsch

wdr5dasphilosophischeradio_2015-09-11_nichtfassbarueberdiezeitsendungvom11092015_wdr5 (55 min)

Concerning time, and how it appears to us subjectively, especially as we get older; how we value time, etc.

(Listened a 2nd time, more carefully).
Last edited by Montmorency on Mon Oct 19, 2015 10:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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