DUPLE C2, DELE C2, CILE C2, DALF C2

[LundiHákarlsson]

Most medical schools will heavily favor their own citizens, and you may find a lot of difficulty breaking into the system. If Italy is a top prospect for you, consider Vita-Salute San Raffaele’s international MD program. https://www.topuniversities.com/univers ... rgrad#over

From what I understand, knowing the language of the said country helps a foreign applicant more than a foreign applicant who does not know the language. In any case, for countries such as Portugal, I could do the programme in the language (Portuguese in that case).

Whether the programme in the other countries is in the language of the country, and a language test needs to be passed in order to apply, that is fairly easy to do. It is not like they are asking for C1 or C2. Usually it is B1--B2 usually is the highest minimum that they want.

Of course, this does not change that being a US citizen hinders me much more than if I had a European passport. But I would not be in this situation if I did have a European passport in the first place.

[LundiHákarlsson]

An updated map of countries for my future plans and thus the corresponding languages on which to focus:



1st tier is first choice, 2nd tier is second choice, etc. I was contemplating whether to put France in the first or second tier, but ended up putting it in the first. France are just too nice of a country.

As Swedish is officially accepted in Finland, Swedish is also added. My Swedish is much better than my poor Finnish.

That means that the most important ones are, in order:

1) português
2) italiano
3) čeština
4) français
5) svenska
6) suomi
7) Nederlands
8) Deutsch

I have not studied languages enough as I have been busy. But this Saturday is my birthday, and I will get a lot of language books at bookstores as presents to myself this weekend. It helps that I have a bookstore gift card as well.

Right now I do not have much time for studying languages that I do not need, i.e. just for cultural interest or some other reason. Thus I have not advanced very far in Farsi.

I have sometimes pondered about my age, being that I am a few days from 31, if I am considered "old" for studying and just emigrating to one of those countries, compared with for example a 20 year old. But then again, I remember how I had a classmate at university who was in her 60s. Most people whom I know who have emigrated to other countries have done so in adulthood, mostly older than I am.

[LundiHákarlsson]

I forgot to update lately again. Not just once, but over ten times. I have just been too busy with things to write anything. The draft of this message has been saved since November 2020, but I never had the time to write it.

Min skandinaviska språkinlärning är gått samman kring svenska. Svenska är mest användbart i min inställning med tanke på att det omfattar både invandring till både Sverige och Finland. Norska håller stadigt med regelbunden lyssning på NRK på TuneIn Radio-appen.

Es verdad que llevo varios meses sin escribir en castellano, pero de verdad estuve durante mucho tiempo ocupadísimo.

Just as a sidenote, I am specifically planning to apply to Italian universities: Università di Torino, Universitá di Milano and Università di Padova. Hence the big refocus on Italian.

Not to be left out is that I also plan to apply to Karlová Univerzitá in Prague.

In both cases, for the medicine course. Not for a couple years though. This virus needs to go down quite a bit, and other things need to be done before I do that.

I am going to a bunch of bookstores next week, so I will be on the lookout for Italian and Czech learning materials.

[Cavesa]

I see I'm a bit late to the party. Let me weight in, some of my points have actually been made even clearer during the last few months.

The "first tier" of countries in consideration are Portugal, Italy and Czechia.

The Czech Republic would be a good choice, but you want to work in the healthcare. Don't go to the Czech Republic. People are leaving for good reasons. And right now, you might notice it is the worst country in Covid, due to issues I had been complaining about for ages. Don't do this to yourself.

Germany and Austria do not allow multiple citizenship.

Not true. I know a family of dual citizens, Germany and the Czech Republic. So, it may not be an option for everybody in any situation, look up the conditions, but it is simply not true that they don't allow it at all.

Most medical schools will heavily favor their own citizens, and you may find a lot of difficulty breaking into the system. If Italy is a top prospect for you, consider Vita-Salute San Raffaele’s international MD program. https://www.topuniversities.com/univers ... rgrad#over

Not really, it depends. Many of these country actually love the foreigners, especially for the programs in English, which are in some cases the only ones they can take full money for. They treat their English class better (including easier exams, polite behaviour, the language exams of the local language are a joke, etc). From what I heard, the "international program" is much worse everywhere in these countries. The teachers are also worse, when teaching in English, and you are supposed to train on patients. Most old and sick people in countries like Italy or the Czech Republic are not that good at English in the already challenging situation.

Either do a real medical degree, or don't. These international degrees are a huge problem, that should be reevaluated within Europe. If you want the best education possible within a given country (in which case the Czech Republic with the poor, understaffed, and outdated system is not a good choice at all!), learn the language and study with the real students. Don't just be a golden goose.

Entry to the faculty tends to be possible in each country, even though with various complications. The main problem is entrance after the beginning, like a transfer (not just Erasmus) in the middle of the studies. Then there is a new round of complicated but possible access right after the faculty. Some countries don't take people during residency.

As far as I know, Italy and Portugal are among the more accessible ones. But Italy has a huge problem between the faculty and residency, their sorting exam leaves a few thousand young doctors without a job and without access to specialisation every year. I haven't done research for Portugal.

In the Czech Republic, it looks very accessible at first sight. But the problem is not only a salary, that will not allow you to normally live (unless you have a parent or partner to support you). But the system of residency, where it is impossible to get through it. For example, there are obligatory classes, which haven't been held for a few years, or obligatory activities, that are no longer done or not enough. There is no curriculum for one of the programs (haven't been for a few years), so there are simply no new specialists. There is a system of various blackmailing issues, with which your hospital or faculty allow you to fulfill your obligations on the path to freedom. It is an extremely bad country to do medicine in. Truth me, I have considered it, my path abroad is difficult and uncertain. But in the Czech Republic, I'd rather leave medicine than be such a worthless slave at hospital. And trust me, half the nation is not worth your sacrifice.

Germany is excellent, when it comes residency conditions and freedom, work conditions. The faculties are very good too, with a well thought out system of practical rounds, and solid theory. The problem may be the initial access to the faculty, which is based on your high school grades. This is unfair, as not everybody has the same conditions in high school, the same difficulty of school, and it also is a disadvantage for foreigners or older students. But it is a system in place, and people doing their whole education in Germany are well aware of it and can prepare. No idea how you could get in, look it up. I don't like Germany in many ways, but they are still one of the best options for foreigners desiring to do medicine.

A very popular option for the Poles seems to be Sweden. I haven't explored it, but there must be some advantages. However, it is a very different country from Portugal. If you know your heart drags you towards the south, don't go to the north. I wouldn't be happy there either, no matter how awesome it surely is in many ways.

[Xenops]

Well, this is an interesting development.

I don’t have much to add to Cavesa’s post, but a couple of things came to mind:

1. Research programs of interest—what are the requirements for international students, what languages are used in the classroom, etc.

2. I recommend reading T.R. Reid’s Healing of America—it compares the healthcare systems of the U.S., Canada, France, the UK, Germany, Japan, and underdeveloped nations as well. What kind of system can you see yourself working in?

[LundiHákarlsson]

Well, this is an interesting development.

I always had these plans. It was just that due to various factors, plus the coronavirus, that I was not ready to start working on realising these plans.

1. Research programs of interest—what are the requirements for international students, what languages are used in the classroom, etc.

A lot of universities in Europe have medicine (MBChB/MBBS/MD) courses in both the "native" language as well as English. It varies by university on how these are carried out, but what seems to be the same is that it is usually six years long with a total of 360 ECTS (European university credits). That means 360/6 = 60 credits per year, 30 credits per semester. Requirements also vary vastly between not only country to country, but also university to university in the exact same country.

2. I recommend reading T.R. Reid’s Healing of America—it compares the healthcare systems of the U.S., Canada, France, the UK, Germany, Japan, and underdeveloped nations as well. What kind of system can you see yourself working in?

This one is easy. I only want to work in a universal healthcare system, similar to the UK's NHS or Spain's system, i.e. free at the point of delivery and finances by taxes and government funds. I never applied to medical schools in USA because although I live in USA currently, I never wanted to work nor live long-term here. Plus, we plan to move permanently in a couple years or so to Europe. I could never under good conscience work in a US-style healthcare system, and I have had this feeling since early childhood.

That would mean most European countries would be a good fit. Of course, some will fit better and some not, but at that point it seems almost like a choice from a group of all pretty good choices, instead of a choice from a group of good, yet also with some really bad choices.

I need to do more research on daily living in each country. Italy always seemed to me to have a fun type of environment, similar to Spain, Catalonia, France and other "Latin" European countries. Scandinavia have quite good quality of life indices, but I am not sure how day-to-day life is there.

In any case, whether the language that I need to spend a huge focus on is Romance or Germanic, I already have good skills and a head start. I can very quickly top up my skills in Italian or French, or in the case of Germanics, Norwegiah or Swedish. Czech is one language that unlike those others, I need to work on quite a bit. Some of the bookstores that I am going to next week are Half Price Book chain stores. Most of their content is used, so maybe I might encounter some random Czech books there.

Czechia would be the only Slavic country in which I would consider living. The situation in countries like Poland and Russia is not good. Czechia is just so much in the centre of Europe that it seems like one of those "cozy" countries like Belgium--one can travel around so easily and without any long distance to really any nice place.

One of the big problems is coronavirus. Since I have only a US passport, it might be years before I could even enter Europe, unless they take of the travel ban in a couple years or so.

[Cavesa]

Well, it looks like my information is not that welcome to you. But a few last points (as I'd feel bad about not clearing it up). If you wish, I'll delete it all, and keep the dreams intact (after all, my compatriots will get a new victim to serve them, good for them).

A lot of universities in Europe have medicine (MBChB/MBBS/MD) courses in both the "native" language as well as English. It varies by university on how these are carried out, but what seems to be the same is that it is usually six years long with a total of 360 ECTS (European university credits). That means 360/6 = 60 credits per year, 30 credits per semester. Requirements also vary vastly between not only country to country, but also university to university in the exact same country.

Yes, the differences can be huge even within one university. Just the Charles University in Prague actually has 5 medical faculties, 3 of them in Prague. And they are vastly different. But the lower quality of the English classes is a constant. And it seems to be constant among various countries (I've heard the same info from Hungary, Italy, Romania).

The credit system is actually a weird hybrid, which doesn't fit well the medschools. It is a universal system, primarily meant for degrees, in which the precise content doesn't matter that much. That's not the case of the medschools. In some countries (like the Czech Republic), there is a also a parallel system of prerequisites and corequisites. Also, the credits do not reflect the amount of work at all in the real world. In other countries (like France), the credits are even more symbolic, and disconnected from the learning modules.

Honestly, the fact that everybody gains 360 credits is absolutely worthless, it doesn't mean anything. It is just a way to say "formally, all of these are equal and we have to recognize each other's diplomas", but it doesn't mean the schools are similar. They should be.

This one is easy. I only want to work in a universal healthcare system, similar to the UK's NHS or Spain's system, i.e. free at the point of delivery and finances by taxes and government funds. I never applied to medical schools in USA because although I live in USA currently, I never wanted to work nor live long-term here. Plus, we plan to move permanently in a couple years or so to Europe. I could never under good conscience work in a US-style healthcare system, and I have had this feeling since early childhood.

There is always the dark side. One of the huge problems of these extremely egalitarian systems is discouragement or even prohibition to willingly pay for anything "extra". Even if that "extra" would save your life or its quality, unlike the thing given to everybody. It is unfair too, just in different ways, and actually to a bigger extent. The Czech healthcare has been resistent to any attempts to allow the patients to pay for higher quality treatments in some cases (because the poor, uneducated, and jealous voters like the more successful people to suffer). The result? Corruption and advantages for VIP or for friends. I'd never want to work in the US healthcare either, but do not idealize Europe too much, there are problems everywhere.

Czechia would be the only Slavic country in which I would consider living. The situation in countries like Poland and Russia is not good. Czechia is just so much in the centre of Europe that it seems like one of those "cozy" countries like Belgium--one can travel around so easily and without any long distance to really any nice place.

One of the big problems is coronavirus. Since I have only a US passport, it might be years before I could even enter Europe, unless they take of the travel ban in a couple years or so.

The Czech Republic is a good place to live overall, unless you're in the healthcare. You will not be able to keep even a real middle class life style, unless your partner earns much more. You will be a slave until the end of residency. Yes, this is normal to some extent everywhere. But the american doctor knows, that the residency will most probably end on time, and all their investments will pay off. The Czech one doesn't know, the residencies taking much longer than the official length are the norm, and they won't have a much better life afterwards either.

Also, the country is most probably going to go bankrupt by 2024, due to the mistakes made by the criminal governement during the last years, and now even more during the Covid. On the surface, it looks much better than Poland in some ways. If you look well, it is an oligarchy. I really recommend going to a more civilised and richer country.

[LundiHákarlsson]

I am back after a mini trip to Minneapolis/St Paul. I bought a large amount of language books—probably over 50 language books, both new and used.

Some good ones include Vocabulaire progressif du Français niveau intermédiare and Vocabulaire progressif du Français niveau avancé. My French has atrophied to such a high extent, but I still manage to recall a lot of what I had learnt since age 14/15. Also got some Italian books, which will undoubtedly be of high usefulness. Probably due to the Scandinavian presence, I found quite a few Norwegian and Swedish learning books for intermediate and high-intermediate level.

With regards to Slavic languages, I unfortunately did not find any Czech books. I did get a few Russian books though. Most of the Russian books that I bought are from the Soviet era with prefaces and introductions about how such and such book will help the reader to speak fluently when travelling through or moving to the USSR. I also found some strange Soviet book that was published in the late 1980s that is about what seems to be Soviet military uniforms and a bunch of rules for something.

I long for the bookstores in Europe that have uncountable language learning books. But with the coronavirus pandemic, it looks like it while before I can be there again.

Apart from language books, I bought a lot of chess books, but there were none in foreign languages unfortunately.

Since there are so many unknowns and unpredictable things happening due to the pandemic, plus not knowing yet exactly where to move, the languages that I focus on keep shifting. Sometimes I am not sure which ones to focus on, so I focus on a breadth of different languages simultaneously. As of right now, these would be Italian, Portuguese, French, Dutch. Czech and Norwegian.

The languages for fun if I have time are Russian and Persian. I actually have bought quite a lot of Japanese books, but never had the time to start learning the language.

If I had not stated it before, I can clarify that I do not study nor have studied Spanish for several year—I just "live" in Spanish as if it were my second language to English. I used to go to meetups, so right now I do not talk in any foreign language to anyone face-to-face, which is probably the situation with most people due to the virus.

Sometimes I would think about being a language tutor, but it seems daunting given that a student's success is not always dependent on how good their tutor/teacher is. In addition, teaching or doing any type of talking in real time is anxiety-inducing. But online translation platforms seems to be saturated with too many translators—again, a consequence of the virus situation.

It is annoying that it seems that most European countries do not exactly make it easy for US citizens to emigrate there. Preference is often for citizens of their ex-colonies, and EU citizens of course.

Reading the news, I see that Italy are in lockdown again, whilst Germany are in the third wave of the virus pandemic. Not sure how this will affect immigration rules in the future.

[LundiHákarlsson]

I bought some more language books during a small trip to Appleton, a town not too far a drive from Minneapolis, Milwaukee or Chicago. I got a few French books. Unfortunately there were no Russian books. I did find some Italian and Swedish books, so that was good.

Again there is a lack of Czech books in the bookstores, although I did find a couple of Slovak learning books. Not the same, but close (in a way).

Below are a few photos of some books that I bought:













[img]https://ibb.co/1LttGbH
[/img]

[Le Baron]

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